Draft talk:Neshe

Dear @Cabrils,

Thank you for your review and especially for the links ans guidance you provided.

I checked the references, fixed some of them that were in the wrong place, removed the ones that did not follow the guidelines (not self published, not blacklisted, not press releases the ones containing interviews with the artist). In case that there are other references that you consider not following the guidelines, please point me to them and I will either clarify if there is some misunderstanding, or remove them.

None of the sources left should be from blogs, company websites or social media (Twitter, YouTube etc...). They are mainly from magazines and newspapers specialized in showbiz and music.

Regarding your comment regarding the conflict of interest, I don't charge anything by creating this page. I wanted to learn about creating and publishing a Wikipedia page (this is my first wiki page from scratch), and I can assure you that nobody would pay an amateur to do such thing without having proofs of previous contributions. I like her music, I realized that there is no info on her on Wikipedia, and I wanted to add publicly available information similarly as other artists of her relevance have today.

I did get in contact with her to obtain her permission for creating such page and in particular for using her photo. If you need a written proof that the photo can be used, let me know and I can request that.

Regarding the WP:MUSICBIO criteria, I would say that she fulfills the following criteria:

Criteria 1 - As can be seen in the references we kept. Her work was published in important magazines, that are normally independent from the musicians, and not self-published, as those normally have a publishing director / editor who approves author's work before publishing.

Criteria 2 - The song Bingo entered top 100 (place 80) according to Telif Metre (Turkish Copyright meter) data within the first week of it's release.

Criteria 11 - The song Hijo de la Noche was played during several months on Pal Station, Metro FM (and others) in Turkey. The song was also played during some time on Canal RCN in Colombia where it had a very good reception. Bingo on the other hand was played on several national radios stations in Turkey (Metro FM, Canal). I hope that now the page is more consistent and compliant with the Wikipedia rules. Otherwise let me know what else doesn´t fit.

Regards, GlobalMusicFan (talk) 23:53, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

@GlobalMusicFan Thanks for all this, good work.

Re use of image: Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously so yes you will need to provide written permission from the copyright holder (and that may not necessarily be Neshe, but instead could be the photographer, you will need to find this out and confirm it in writing). For exactly what is required please see WP:UPIMAGE.

Re WP:MUSICBIO: could you please be more specific, and include references to exactly each point you make. I do not speak Turkish but from what I can see, the sources appear of very low quality publications and/or very unsubstantial coverage (see WP:ROTM), a long way from reliable sources. The points you make for Criteria 1, 2 and 11 require evidence from reliable sources. For example, where is the reliable source/s evidencing "The song Bingo entered top 100 (place 80) according to Telif Metre (Turkish Copyright meter) data within the first week of it's release"? Please include a link to the source so we can verify it.

Her awards may be sufficient to meet WP:MUSICBIO but the draft requires reliable sources evidencing these awards.

I hope this helps and encourage you to persevere, the draft has potential! Cabrils (talk) 00:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Dear Cabrils,

I don't really understand under which criteria the references are considered "low quality" or "non-reliable sources". We are talking about popular Turkish music magazines that inform about popular artists. I just added a reference to PopNKultur, which is the top one. If you google "most important pop music magazine in turkey" it pops out on top. I also added another reference to Cumhuriyet, which is the most important daily newspaper according to some sources (see Wikipedia entry) and definitely amongst the most important ones. These evidence, together with the ones that I added previously should be enough for the criteria 1.

I can't prove the criteria 2 because I was not able to find a reliable resource publicly available. It was few years ago, and the TelifMetre personnel is charging for the historic information about the charts. So we can ignore this one I suppose.

Criteria 11 is about the song have been played on radio stations. I don't really know how to prove that.

Regarding the awards, I found the following sources:

X TURKEY AWARDS NESHE - YouTube

https://qualitydergisi.com/nesheye-bir-gecede-iki-odul/

And finally, regarding the image. I changed it for one that I found already published on Wikidata with Creative Commons 4.0 license, that allows publishing.

I hope that this is enough to start a Wikipedia page about Neshe. GlobalMusicFan (talk) 00:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

It's still not clear to me that the Draft meets WP:MUSICBIO.

As I have previously requested, could you please identify the WP:THREE best sources that establish notability of the subject?

I'm not seeing any references that meet WP:RS: they are all extremely short, WP:ROTM unremarkable coverage.

The Cumhuriyet reference is to an interview and so is not considered independent and does not meet WP:RS.

YouTube is not considered a reliable source. And the qualitydergisi.com article is so brief that it is not considered reliable either (it is unsubstantial, unremarkable coverage: WP:ROTM).

The new image, in my view, suffers the same problem as the previous. It has been uploaded by a single account "Nesheofficial" with no reliable release of copyright information, which is particularly suspicious given it's clearly a professional photograph. You said "If you need a written proof that the photo can be used, let me know and I can request that." and I think that would be the best path forward to use an image. Cabrils (talk) 01:18, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I strongly believe that the criteria 1 of WP:MUSICBIO is satisfied, because I published several sources to show that it "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself."

Find here the WP:THREE sources that you requested:

PopNKultur - number one musical magazine in Turkey:

https://www.popnkultur.online/aralik-2020/#flipbook-df_39156/25

Acting bio from the Istambul Theather website:

https://sehirtiyatrolari.ibb.istanbul/oyuncu/nese-ceren-aktay

News about the last single:

https://www.tv100.com/turk-sarkici-neshe-ispanyolca-ve-ingilizce-soyledigi-sarkisiyla-kasip-kavuruyor-haber-772531

Regarding your comment about the image, I`ll take care of it later, if we sort out other open questions. As I said, it is an image uploaded by the artist and released with a license that allows republishing. If somebody claims differently in the future with a valid argument, we can change it, but for me an argument like "doesn't look like..." or "it could be..." is not a proof for something. Just a personal assumption.

It's common that the artist (or somebody who supports him/her) pays a foto session for her promotion (social media, covers, etc...) and she has the rights to do with this photo what she needs.

I was thinking about the written statement, but I don't see a way of how to prove it in a reliable way, even if I get an email from her saying that I can use the photo.

I will focus on that if I get the OK for the remaining content. 83.40.165.192 (talk) 12:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, the previous comment was mine. I just was not logged in. GlobalMusicFan (talk) 12:23, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @GlobalMusicFan,

Thanks for that clarification.

Re WP:THREE: I'm still not feeling comfortable that these sources clearly establish WP:RS, nor how they meet the requirements of WP:MUSICBIO, so I'm choosing to decline from accepting the draft at this point. Please feel free to re-submit the draft so that it goes back in the list for other reviewers to assess.

Re the image used in the draft: I maintain my concerns about it not meeting WP:UPIMAGE but am similarly content for other reviewers to assess.

All the best with it. Cabrils (talk) 01:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)