Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Template for political parties' number of seats in parliament.

{{User:Nathan121212/Template:Parties with seats in the South African parliament|ANC}} shows: 264

{{User:Nathan121212/Template:Parties with seats in the South African parliament|FF(plus)}} shows: 4

{{User:Nathan121212/Template:Parties with seats in the South African parliament|DA}} shows: 67

They can be used to replace the numbers in the various articles that mention them. Then we can just update the numbers at the main template. If anyone thinks it's a good idea, you can move it into the main template space. Nathan121212 (talk) 17:41, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

As this is generally something that only changes once every five years, is a system of templates actually necessary? - htonl (talk) 18:32, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

You're right, ignore these. Nathan121212 (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

National honours

Do we list each year's national honours recipients somewhere? Source -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:35, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Upcoming general election

Should we start getting various ducks in a row for the election? There is always a large pile of work to do after the results are reported but I'm wondering if we could start getting some "scaffolding" in place so that adding the data later is easier. Perhaps Wikidata can be used to semi-automate the process? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:32, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

The List of political parties in South Africa could do with an update, some of the parties have dissolved and other new ones have been established. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

I was wondering if there was a way to put templates in all the articles that require party data such as seats in parliament. Then the template could be updated instead of each article individually. Nathan121212 (talk) 14:43, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

If anyone here knows how to program bots, perhaps they could create on that replaces outdated election data with the latest stats entered in a central location. Nathan121212 (talk) 15:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to ping me if you would like election seat diagrams: I wrote a web-based tool to do the layouts, so you can do it yourself, but I'm also happy to run it. --Slashme (talk) 09:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico!

Some of you will probably know that Cape Town bid to host Wikimania in 2015. It was a close-run thing, but in the end Mexico City was successful. We definitely plan to bid again next year. --Slashme (talk) 09:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Close one, it appears CT was one of the three remaining candidates. Can you please post a link to the page where the announcement was made. Thanks Nathan121212 (talk) 18:24, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Here is a relevant mailing list posting. Not sure where else it was announced. --Slashme (talk) 13:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Nkandlagate article needs work

I've split the article Nkandla (homestead) from the article about the town (Nkandla, KwaZulu-Natal), since they're two separate things. I'm busy sorting out all the links that need disambiguation, but in the meantime the homestead article really needs a lot of work to bring it up to date with all the developments of the last few months, if anyone's interested in doing that. - htonl (talk) 11:29, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I have made a few drive by changes, primarily due to overlap with the South African general election, 2014 which is where my priorities lie at the moment. I don't have time to adopt it per se at the moment. Helen Online 11:48, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Archiving web sources

It's something I recently started doing and encourage all Wikipedians to do to. Linkrot is affecting many South African articles and many articles in general, please make it a habit to use [1] or The Wayback Machine to ensure there is always a copy of your reference available. Thanks Nathan121212 (talk) 12:20, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree although it is time consuming. I have been trying to do it for important sources, especially for Business Day which is one of our most reliable sources for politics and only allows limited page views per 30 day period which I use up fast. Helen Online 08:08, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Expansion request

It would be great if anybody could expand the stub of Freedom Day (South Africa). Its going to get a lot of views when it appears on the front page on Sunday. Nathan121212 (talk) 12:25, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Ok, leave it for now, we'll work on it in my namespace at User:Nathan121212/Freedom_Day and I'll move it into the mainspace next year so it can appear on the front page. Any help on this would be appreciated. Nathan121212 (talk) 16:00, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring at Afrikaner

Please take a look at the edits over the last few days - it looks rather lame and pointless to me. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:41, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject animated ad

I though WikiProject SA could do with one of these. I made this gif image and used this Wikipedia:Wikipedia ads to link it to our page. This code: {{Wikipedia ads|ad=249}}

Generates this:


Wikipedia ads	file info – #249

Nathan121212 (talk) 18:00, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Support: it's certainly visible, and I think it would help. --Slashme (talk) 15:57, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Can I add a link to this on the WikiProject South Africa template page (along with the userboxxes etc.)?Nathan121212 (talk) 09:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I don't see why not. I appreciate your effort but personally find it too bright and distracting, and it might actually be problematic for epileptics. I hope you take that as constructive criticism. :) Helen Online 09:46, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Helen. I understand.Nathan121212 (talk) 17:04, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Chris Hani / Janusz Waluś merge

Hi. In May 2013 it was proposed to merge the Janusz Waluś article into the Chris Hani article. Can anyone who has opinion on this join the discussion on the Talk page of Walus? Thanks Gbawden (talk) 09:01, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Consensus needed at ITN

An ITN nomination regarding the election has been posted by User:htonl, please help to reach a consensus here Nathan121212 (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Sources in Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Skylight (band)

I'd appreciate a second opinion on Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Skylight (band) -- sources look ok to me for establishing notability. Are they decent sources from the POV of somebody who knows South Africa's media? Thanks! Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 14:10, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes I would say so. Helen Online 14:27, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, among the cites are two mainstream national newspapers and a music television channel. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:55, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Roger and Helen! It's now in mainspace: Skylight (band). Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 21:32, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Horse racing

South African horses have been making quite a splash on the international circuit recently, but are under-represented on WP. I would like to correct this. Does SA racing have a good, reliable source for results, the equivalent of the Racing Post in Europe or Equibase in North America? Tigerboy1966 12:38, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I have asked a friend who works in the industry, will let you know. Helen Online 13:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

The National Horseracing Authority is the legally mandated regulatory body - their website seems to contain a lot of information. I also found the Sporting Post which claims to be the only horseracing newspaper in the country. Most of the mainstream press also regularly publish results and reports. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

My friend says Independent Newspapers or Computaform (not a newspaper per se), but I'm not sure if any of that is online (not for free anyway). Helen Online 16:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions. I will see what I can do. Tigerboy1966 22:28, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 12/05

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Olivia Forsyth. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 02:02, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

New Cabinet

Provided a link to the new cabinet for updating SA Government pages - http://ewn.co.za/2014/05/25/Zuma-announces-new-Cabinet - Conlinp (talk) 04:28, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Should a Paseka Motsoeneng articles be created

Paseka Motsoeneng does anyone think an article should be created as he seems like a pretty noteworthy person in South Africa. Dwanyewest (talk) 23:54, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

I have just removed a large unsourced hagiographic block of text from the article, per WP:BLP. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:46, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Roggeveld

I have raised a question at Talk:Roggeveld about which province the Roggeveld is in. Nurg (talk) 22:54, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Nowhere near the Eastern Cape. The Roggeveld (plateau) is in the Northern Cape, north of the Tankwa National Park towards Calvinia. The boundary between the Western Cape and the Northern Cape runs through the Roggeveld mountains. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:55, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia in the news: May 2014

eNCA noted that clicking on the SA elections Google Doodle took users to a Wikipedia "collaboration" on the elections. Nathan121212 (talk) 14:37, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Did anyone click on it? Did it go to South African general election, 2014? Helen Online 15:31, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

@HelenOnline, Htonl, and Dodger67:, I'm thinking of trying to get South African general election, 2014 to GA status. Do you think there is enough material to work with? Any assistance would be appreciated. Nathan121212 (talk) 16:32, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Count me in, but only from next week, my workload is a bit full until then. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:43, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

@Dodger67: I've created all the sections that articles in Category:GA-Class Elections and Referendums articles have. We can work on expanding them as soon as you have time. Thanks for your decision to help. Nathan121212 (talk) 10:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

National Key Points Act, 1980

I was told to stop taking photographs of a railway station by security guards, which led to me expanding this article from a stub (in case anyone was wondering). There is a section on Nkandla (homestead) which may be useful elsewhere, but specifically with reference to the act. Helen Online 09:48, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Majuba Day

I have AfD'd this article. Anyone care to comment? Gbawden (talk) 14:37, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Need some help with a draft article

I started Draft:South African Defence Review 2012 a while ago but due to various meat-world and on-WP circumstances I have not had the time or energy to work on in much lately. The Defence Review has far-reaching consequences for SA, not only in defence policy but also for the country's economy, foreign relations and other socio-economic aspects, thus I believe it is a topic we should cover in significant depth. I have listed a few possible sources on the Talk page and the draft already has a fairly well developed structure in terms of proposed section headings. I realize there are not many defence specialists among ZA-pedians (off the top of my head I can think of User:Darren Olivier and User:Gbawden) but given the broader social, economic and political significance of the topic, I hope to get maybe two or three interested editors to join me in this draft writing effort. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Hatfield Christian Church

I happened on the Hatfield Christian Church page— by "Random article", I think— and shuddered. I did a good deal of editing, which I have summarized thus on the Talk page:

The page read like a publication of the church, full of "we" and "The Lord sent", plus Biblical quotations as section epigraphs: not at all like the neutral point of view that is expected in an encyclopedia and that Wikipedia requires. I've tried to apply that policy to this article.

Not being a member of this project, I have not ventured to remove the C-class template, but I mention this here so that someone in WPSA can review it. --Thnidu (talk) 04:24, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts. Unfortunately our resources are very limited. Helen Online 13:35, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I have AFDed it as a Vanispamcruftisement - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hatfield Christian Church. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

WPSA logo

I don't think the free flag map image we use in our banner is a logo per se. I looked to see if there are any guidelines for Wikiproject logos. So far I found two interesting Signpost articles:

Helen Online 07:38, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I created an emergency WP:RSA logo for the Wikimania 2014 brochure. I won't be offended if anyone else can do better. The flag map was too difficult for me to resize. Helen Online 15:45, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Helen, after processing through various online editors, I managed to resize flagmap. What do you think? Nathan121212 (talk) 19:22, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it is fine thanks Nathan. Can you overwrite the one I uploaded so we don't have to change all the links? Helen Online 20:14, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I like it! Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:54, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

thanks guys, there seems to be problems with the transparency. It was transparent when I edited, will keep trying. Nathan121212 (talk) 12:38, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

~~Maybe User:Htonl could assist with transparency? Nathan121212 (talk) 12:54, 24 June 2014 (UTC)~~

I put in a request at Wikipedia Graphics Lab. Nathan121212 (talk) 14:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Nathan, it looks great! Helen Online 15:18, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2014

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles within Category:LGBT in Africa may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! --Another Believer _(Talk) 02:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

I am coordinating the June and July photo challenges so you would be helping a WPSA member too! Helen Online 08:19, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

FYI I created Wikipedia:Meetup/South Africa/Wiki Loves Pride 2014 and have started uploading some images I took this month there. Please feel free to contribute. Helen Online 18:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

FYI the SA results have been added to Wikipedia:Meetup/South Africa/Wiki Loves Pride 2014. Helen Online 10:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Schools

I think that most people go onto wiki to find information and wouldn't it be great if you could find a page about your local school, especially really good schools like Edenvale High School. Tatedareader (talk) 13:03, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

It would be even better if we had more volunteers to write such articles.

Helen Online 13:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Split of Category:Bantu people

Please bear with me while I split Category:Bantu people per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 24#Category:Bantu people. If you have any concerns about my edits, please discuss with me rather than revert. It is a heck of a job and trying to figure it all out while someone else is reverting me without my knowledge, which happened to me on another Wiki site, is more than my brain can handle. Helen Online 17:09, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Done Please talk to me if you have any queries about my edits in this regard. Helen Online 12:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Deletion requests

Can someone please weigh in on the deletion requests of South African Education and Environment Project and NeoGen: Kerk vir 'n Nuwe Generasie? Thanks Gbawden (talk) 13:15, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Yair Shimansky

Can someone give me a second opinion before I reassess this article? This article is rated as a B but looks more like a stub/start to me. Gbawden (talk) 07:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

It was longer when it was assessed, but still too short and should have been assessed as a stub. Helen Online 09:06, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, thought so. Didn't want to tread on any toes Gbawden (talk) 09:18, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Languages in censuses and Race and ethnicity in censuses

Pleas add information about this country to this articles--Kaiyr (talk) 13:03, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

COI self-declaration

I am placing this notice here as the best place to reach editors with an interest in South African articles. I have accepted an offer of employment at Democratic Alliance (DA) federal headquarters which will be effective from October. I therefore recuse myself from editing all articles in Category:Democratic Alliance (South Africa), articles on other current South African political parties, and articles on contemporary South African party politics in general. I make certain exceptions to this recusal:

Removing spam, reverting obvious vandalism, and correcting spelling and grammatical errors, which are all noted at WP:COIU as non-controversial edits.
Uploading election result maps, such as those in commons:Category:2014 South African general election maps.
Generating election result tables, such as those that can be seen at South African general election, 2014#Results.

Please point it out to me if I inadvertently break these self-imposed restrictions. - htonl (talk) 13:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Good article reassessment: Mzoli's

Stumbled across it and it seems this article doesn't meet the Good Article criteria. Could somebody here please carry out a reassessment. Thanks Nathan121212 (talk) 13:31, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject South Africa At Wikimania 2014

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 17:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Note I have put in a booklet request on behalf of the WikiProject. If anybody has any objections, please post them here. The request can be seen at Project leaflets. There are still some details to fill in and any help would be appreciated. Nathan121212 (talk) 09:09, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Nathan121212, there appears to be a grammar error - should be notable South Africans, i.e. not plural. Should I make the change or will you? Thanks. --Elinor.Dashwood (talk) 10:26, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I have made some edits, removing some information I believe is not applicable and warrants further discussion here. The Wikimedia ZA chapter promotes WPSA among other things, but it is not the same thing as WPSA. Helen Online 11:16, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The flag-map is already on Commons at commons:File:Flag-map_of_South_Africa.svg, but I don't think we can lay claim to it as our logo per se. It is already used more widely, so we would have to customise it or develop a completely new one. Helen Online 12:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Adi, many appoligies for not helping out on my side. I told Ed I would try to help out with putting together these pamphlets but have just been taken over by Wiki Loves Monuments and edit-a-thon preparations instead. :-( --Discott (talk) 17:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks like the leaflets were quite a success. Nathan121212 (talk) 19:55, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Where is the Mariette Bosch trial transcript?

After reading a post by a user identifying himself as Tienie Wolmarans (boyfriend of Mariette Bosch) here: Talk:Mariette_Bosch#Mariette_Bosch_-_.22facts.22_in_your_article_shows_serious_lack_of_research_done_to_get_to_the_truth. I want to know where I may find the trial transcript of Mariette Bosch Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 04:42, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about the trial transcript, but you can find the Court of Appeals ruling here: http://www.saflii.org/bw/cases/BWCA/2001/4.pdf. - htonl (talk) 08:54, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you so much! WhisperToMe (talk) 11:08, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Kroondal - School - verifications

The Kroondal School was started in up in 1892.*) Neither Louis Botha nor J.D. du Toit attended the Kroondal School. Louis Botha was thirty years old when the Kroondal School was begun. J.D. du Toit attended school in the Cape Colony at that time. Both, however, did attend schools founded by missionaries of the Hermannsburg Mission Society; Botha at Herrmansburg near Greytown **), du Toit at Morgensonne (Morgenzon) near Rustenburg ***).

 *) Fritz Scriba et al, Die Kroondaler Schule - Anfangsjahre, p. 4, 1982
**) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Botha

- - ) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totius_(poet)

41.13.70.51 (talk) 21:17, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Which article(s) is this about? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:05, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Cape Town 6: Wiki meetup

This is just a quick shout out and invitation to the 6th Cape Town Wiki-meetup this Sunday, 7th September 2014, from 11:00am to 2:00pm. Details can be found at the meetup page on Wikipedia. --Discott (talk) 14:34, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Open Book Festival edit-a-thon

Open Book Festival has partnered with the University of Cape Town to host edit-a-thons for South African literature. There looks to be a smaller "build-up" event on 5 September and a larger event on 21 September 2014. Event listing. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 01:15, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Song "I've Never Met a Nice South African" Mid-Importance

The article on this song has no sources at all, making a case for its notability pretty bleak. This WikiProject rated the article as Mid-importance. As it stands, it has offended a few people. Unless it gets some sourcing showing non-trivial coverage in multiple, independent RS, I think it needs to go. I have not ever nominated an article for deletion, and I applaud what the creators of this song were trying to do at the time, but because this is unsourced and potentially offensive, I think it has to go unless it can be fixed up. Anyone care to take that on? Dcs002 (talk) 03:10, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Offensiveness has never been an accepted criterion for deletion, so don't even mention it in your proposal as it will only weaken your argument. I wonder who decided to give it a Mid importance rating - in terms of country projects I doubt that any songs except maybe national anthems could ever really deserve such a high rating. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:33, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

History of women's rights in South Africa

Can someone please have a look at this article which is written a bit like an essay/opinion piece? Gbawden (talk) 10:43, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

While an article about the history of women's rights in South Africa is needed, this is just not it. If nobody is prepared to completely rewrite it I think it should be taken to AFD. Some of the external links listed on the page may be useful for such a rewrite. I have asked for input from WP:WikiProject Feminism too. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:37, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

It's a pity the author(s) seem to be hit and runners, as their intentions are obviously good. I am wary of chasing away potential constructive local editors, goodness knows we need more of them. I will post a note on their talk page and see if we get any response. Helen Online 12:32, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Did you get any response? Imho WikiProject Feminism relies far too much on "one shot" editathons. They recruit like-minded people who have no actual interest in becoming Wikipedians, get them together and then with the "coaching" of a few experienced editors they create a bunch of new articles during a single organised session of just a few hours, then they leave. I've referred to it as "ninja editing" because the arrive, do their writing and then disappear before anyone can even engage with them about their contributions. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:11, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

New article needs a lot of help

Please help to improve Santam, it's one of the biggest and oldest insurance companies in SA, so it really should have a better article than the current stub. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:01, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Unsuitable editing at Transvaal Colony

Please keep an eye on editing activity at this article, which is supposed to cover the history of the territory in the eight years between the end of the Boer War in 1902 and the founding of the Union of South Africa in 1910. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:19, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Also South African Republic. Not really my area of expertise and I was not feeling up to tackling it today. Helen Online 12:36, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Productive discussion at Talk:Transvaal Colony has begun, please feel free to join in. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:33, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Even though I managed to get the POV rhetoric at Transvaal Colony toned down yesterday, the editor is now ripping into South African Republic. I've delivered a Level 3 POV editing warning, but I'm not sure it's having the desired effect. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:31, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit history on Transvaal Colony simply proves that I adjusted the article to reflect history and I added citations and acceptable references. Similar to the edit history and current quality of the South African Republic, I added citations and removed fiction, through consensus with other editors, I cleaned up the maritz republic headers and added the correct name of the country. (With references and citations) - I am not saying that the article is now complete, just that there is now a factual base to build on. Your removal of the entire second boer war, quoting NPOV and political bias, etc. is simply not true. The second boer war did happen and you are welcome to dispute the number of kids and women that died, but not simply deny that it happened. What would be great is if you bother to check the citations and look at the original documents, treaties, conventions, etc. referred to - before simply and easily deleting sections. Maybe follow the policy of this group? (to discuss in the talk pages? before simply blindly ripping into someone else's contribution? I am far from perfect and make lots of errors and would like you to point out where an error is, so that I may look at the cited source, look at supporting documentation and see if what I added is POV and not factual and maybe build on whatever someone else discovered or added as well... this improves the overall quality and means that we deliver something of value and something useful? Zarpboer (talk) 13:30, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

The way you are going about it is disruptive. Completely replacing entire sections of stable articles with your own chosen version of "The Truth" is not the way we build articles. Please just slow down and discuss before making such radical changes. The tone of your writing gives a clear indication of your personal POV of the events you write about (Boer=good & British=evil). Anyone can pick and choose sources to support any side of almost any argument so saying you have sources is in itself fairly meaningless. It is not necessary for the ZAR article to contain extensive details about the Boer Wars - there are many other articles that specifically cover those wars in considerable detail. You've even added arguments about the Afrikaner/Boer ethnic identity dispute referencing the Broederbond and other topics irrelevant to the history of the ZAR. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:18, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Since when is http://www/boere.co.za a neutral reliable source with a reputation for fact checking and professional editorial oversight? In fact at closer inspection it looks like Zarpboer (or someone with a very similar username on that site) is in fact the author of much of the content of that website. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:34, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Does nobody else care that articles covering important parts of SA history are now being twisted into blatantly biased "Boere" propaganda? Both myself and HelenOnline are busy with other matters and cannot give this issue the attention it urgently needs. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I already completely rewrote one article, which nobody could be bothered to review. I suspect the sudden interest in these articles may have something to do with Front National's land claims. Helen Online 08:35, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Roger. Will attempt to write a history of the Transvaal Colony 1902-1909, give me a few days. I have limited sources of South African history, so future drafts will need to add other sources. Conlinp (talk) 15:18, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

The issue has been referred to ANI - see WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Extensive OR and POV-pushing by Zarpboer. - further discussion should take place there rather than here. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:35, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Those editors with any interested can please have a look at the South African Republic page, feedback and comments are very welcome. And yes, I am still using the boere.co.za library ref found on google, if you have a different/better/whatever library where this book/citation is available - please edit the citation, i have removed the afrikaner bond and all other things that absolutely anyone complained about and will discuss in talk for collaboration/consensus before adding... tx Zarpboer (talk) 07:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Also just watched the video online about the Front National land claim, interesting... Their claims are based on properly detailed land and "deeds of sale" and not so much political or about wars or restitution except insofar as it relates to the original deeds of sale. The land in question was simply "taken" by proclamation, from the British point of view, the black king had no authority to dispose of the land and the whites were 'freebooters', from a zar perspective they also simply decided to 'absorb' the land into zar, hectic. anyway - cool word, no? freebooter.. hehehe, i guess all events have two (or more) sides - Anyway, point of this edit is: No, HelenOnline, my interest/contributions have absolutely nothing to do with any land claims or political views or selling any coolaid to anyone and if you tell me which page you re-wrote, I will gladly review it :) Zarpboer (talk) 11:32, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

POV pushing at Waterval

Could an editor please take a look at this [2] and the next few edits. Seems like major POV pushing to me. This was found by this bot that detects wikipedia edits from parliament. Nathan121212 (talk) 19:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

these are big changes, they require citations and consensus, although some of the edits after the change seems valid, I reverted all the edits since the large change Zarpboer (talk) 05:42, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

POV balancing at Boerehaat (hatred of Boers)

This draft at AFC looked very interesting, and a glance at GoogleBooks shows the term Boerehaat has been used since at least the 1970s, and the concept is "a thing" (whether accurately applied or no). So on those grounds I approved it for publication, but I have concerns that the article may muddle the issues of genuine xenophobia to the Boer, versus legitimate socio-political critique of Boer society. Further, the article broadly describes anti-Boer opinions, but needs to stick more closely to specifically that which is labeled Boerehaat. Can someone take a squint and see how we can best ensure Neutrality on this new article? MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, and any other issues considered. Let us know if and when it'd be ready for acceptance. Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

In order to hate something, there must be a reason. The article will need to discuss the origin of this "hate". I don't believe it does that at the moment. Conlinp (talk) 03:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I removed a lot of unsourced original research and wikified it somewhat. I will try find some reliable sources to flesh it out. My impression is that it is primarily the sort of propaganda promoted by right-wing Afrikaner nationalists such as those in the Front Nasionaal political party. I previously came across quite a bit of unsourced material on Wikipedia promoting an imaginary contemporary English-Afrikaans antagonism, which to my horror foreign journalists were repeating without question, and have cleaned some of it up. White-black antagonism is more complex in practice, but in my opinon it does not justify the alleged Afrikaner persecution painted in some places such as this article. Helen Online 12:20, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion (unless I can find a source for it), the term is used as a form of race cardism. Helen Online 12:28, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I have addressed the issues to the best of my ability. I would prefer if someone else removed the tags (if they are satisfied that the issues have been addressed). Helen Online 08:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the tags myself. If anyone objects, please let me know. Helen Online 08:01, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

This page still needs lots of work. to be npov it requires lots of additional history,it needs to reflect that "boers" was a derogatory way of referencing citizens of ZAR and Orange Free State, later, during apartheid, the SA Police were often referred to as "boere", today criminals still refer to Cops as "boere" it needs quotes and remarks from royalty, rhodes, etc. needs the "boors", dumb dutchmen and "original" hatred of boers. it needs to reflect that farmers are/were occupying land that previously was simply taken in 1913 and that these farmers (or boere) were hated by the communities so displaced. There is so much confusion about who and what boere is, and there is little or no specific academic research, except that research that refers to the various times, and the various names... Anyway, boerhaat could refer to criminals hating the cops, it could refer to general SA people hating the so called "boere" fringe political groupings, it could refer to the hatred that the British felt for the citizens of the ZAR and Free State at that time and that the word, in reference to the Britsh press of the late 19th century, is used to dehumanize these dumb boorish people. It could refer to hatred of boere during apartheid, it is a very under researched term, well depends if you count the saiir papers. Then there are the very real numbers in terms of statistics, the number per 1000 of farmers murdered violently in SA is many times the number of mineworkers per thousand, or any other class of worker in SA, by default making it one of the most dangerous occupations in our country - something which is not popular to say. So, what boerehaat is exactly, well that page does not reflect all this, and it is a pov/npov quagmire which frankly scares me too much to get involved in right now Zarpboer (talk) 05:43, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for reading it. Please don't confuse the article with the Boer article, it is specifically about the term Boerehaat, or the "hatred of the Boers". I bent over backwards to find reliable sources online for this, if you have others that would be great. Helen Online 05:57, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

BTW I have listed the article at GAN in an attempt to get it reviewed and assessed for POV among other things. Helen Online 06:58, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

@Helen Online Your edit is a great improvement on the tripe that was there, and I specifically like how you balanced the POV about zar citizens with the liberal uk view, that was very well done! - It does need some additional meat though, just so that it more completely reflects the period, I am thinking about the Queen, Rhodes and maybe some of the others, more specifically where there is hate speech, (rhodes, etc) and then to balance that again with the cape dutch view or what else? Then also, to add a section about the SA Police, as very frequently, they are addressed as such and their 'boerehaat' means again something else, i am sorry that i am too cowardly to edit there :) but you are doing such a rocking job yourself anyway Zarpboer (talk) 07:37, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Zarpboer I have exhausted all the resources I could find, there is nothing more I can add. For me to add anything else without a reliable source would amount to original research which is not allowed here. I am even treading a very fine line adding the Malema hate speech trial and Ramaphosa comments, as the Boerehaat term was not explicity used there, only related concepts (in reliable sources anyway, and the PRAAG website among others does not count unless we are explicity attributing opinions to individuals such as Dan Roodt). Helen Online 07:49, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Rhodes views on the "kaffirs and boers" is fairly clear: "I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. Just fancy those parts that are at present inhabited by the most despicable specimens of human beings" (in his '77 speech - *secret society* - the original doc is around somewhere on the interwebs (i think - i have a verified copy of the original as well, also somewhere *sigh*), (of course in his will (p17) secret society afrikaner jh hofmeyr makes an appearance...(https://archive.org/stream/lastwilltestamen00rhodiala#page/16/mode/2up), in case you are thinking about tinfoil hats and unmarked black helicopters, or seeing little green men, half the civilized world featured in his will :) hehehehe anyway, there are quite a few choice boerehaat (and racist) statements to go around, just little academic research, like you said, 'it is a battle to get reliable/trusted/acceptable citations...) - anyway, you are 100% correct: Not enough published and acceptable academic research and it is easyTM to find a citation to even prove that: "the earth is flat"... :) Zarpboer (talk) 08:55, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

There are other articles on Jingoism and Imperialism, which I have linked in the article. Unless you can find sources specifically denigrating the Boers, or painting them as a threat, I don't think we can include them in this article. It is actually quite an interesting subject, I learnt a lot editing the article. Helen Online 09:00, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

hmmm, okay, RE: the boers of the 19th century, I will find additional sources and citations for you, there is three that I can think of, at the top of the list is a paper by an American, that is properly cited, I will also check with saiir for additional academic and try to establish the general acceptable academic view. SA POLICE: I am actually very surprised that there is no usable citations for the slang/criminal use to refer to the Police as "boere"... FARMERS: There are a few possibly usable academic papers and the statistics are public and can be used, thing is that I need to then look for research that acceptably interprets the statistics, again saiir... - pls give me some time to get time to do find/look for all that... i am getting citations inline for apartheid, and that is proving to be quite difficult as there is so much and finding the best papers and documents is also challenging in a sea of papers... - re pov when doing something, i was once told that the best way to understand any other pov than your own, is to do research and write on the opposing pov, i wish i was a better author/write though *sigh* at least i am pretty! :) Zarpboer (talk) 09:25, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

26th South African parliament

If anyone could help update 26th South African Parliament with these recent developments [3] it would be greatly appreciated. I'm also not sure where this info would fit in and I've not had a lot of time to edit lately. Thanks - Nathan121212 (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't think anything has changed. Business as usual. Helen Online 17:44, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

How do I join?

I am a new wikipedian who is not entirely sure how these things work Jacobmacmillan (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Welcome! You can add your name to Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa/Participants. You can also subscribe to the mailing list of Wikimedia ZA here. Just ask if you have any specific questions. Helen Online 17:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

thank you Jacobmacmillan (talk) 17:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Assessment

Tons of South African articles need to be assessed at Category:Unassessed South Africa articles. Any assistance here will be appreciated. Nathan121212 (talk) 12:03, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Are there currently any expanded guidelines on article importance for our wikiproject? If not I think it would be great to draw this up (especially with a South African context) as currently many of the article importance "rankings" seem very random Jacobmacmillan (talk) 19:47, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Apartheid

an emotional page, provoking strong POV, also an extremely important page. "The Precursors to Apartheid" section, imho, is not NPOV, it is extremely well written though. How I came to the page, is I tried to figure out what led to Apartheid, how did it happen, did some evil dude wake up one morning and say, howzit, now all these races go here and all those go there? Obviously not. Apartheid has a rich developmental history with lots of actors, contributors and as the page stands now, it simply does not reflect any of that and is an apologetic and explanatory non neutral POV, that does not tell our kids where this crime on humanity came from and how it developed. There is obviously a lot that could be said about the history of Apartheid and how it developed. As painful, difficult, controversial and challenging as this may be, it needs to be done. I am a human, so I have bias. I have a POV, my POV is not written in stone, but I cannot go and do this by myself, my POV needs to be balanced with all the other POV that there is: Pro and Against: White Supremacy POV, Racist POV, Non Racist POV, Boer POV, British POV, Dutch POV, European POV, Black POC, White POV, Indian POV, Asian POV, Other Races POV, Afrikaner POV, Anti Afrikaner POV and the hundreds of other POV... Please help me to balance my POV, even if you just comment or even if you re-write everything, any and all contributions are pleaded for... Zarpboer (talk) 06:28, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Creation of Vital Articles South Africa

Hey ladies and gents

I'm not entirely sure if something of this kind already exists, but if it does not I really think it would be great to draw up three levels of vital articles for South Africa - ie. articles regarding South Africa that Wikipedia should have corresponding high-quality articles. The main vital article project can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vital_articles. While this may be similar to article importance, I think they are different measures and that having vital SA articles would assist wikipedia contributors. Thoughts? Jacobmacmillan (talk) 13:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Yoga South Africa

Could someone have a look at this article - I am tempted to AfD it - makes no sense and doesn't seem to be notable Gbawden (talk) 07:24, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree, AFD it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:17, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

2nd Boer War

I added an RfC to the page as I am not sure how to improve the Origins section on the page, anyone with any interest please add your vote Zarpboer (talk) 05:50, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Maritz Rebellion

Please check my spelling, style and grammar here: Maritz Rebellion and maybe also comment on theRfC on the talk page? Zarpboer (talk) 10:16, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia South Africa Annual General Meeting

Dear Wikipedian / Wikimedian,

Notice is hereby given in terms of the Articles of Association of Wikimedia ZA NPC, that the Annual General Meeting of the Chapter will take place on Saturday, 1 November 2014.

The AGM will be followed by the Annual Wiki Loves Monuments award ceremony.

Further details of the event will follow in due course, but please do diarise the date.

Wiki Regards --Humetheresa (talk) 17:15, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Category:Establishments in South Africa by year

South Africa did not exist as a country before 1910. Should the older categories in Category:Establishments in South Africa by year be merged with categories such as Category:Establishments in the Cape Colony by year? Helen Online 06:27, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention

This is a notice about Category:South Africa articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 02:04, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

New draft article needs help

I have started drafting Draft:Disability in South Africa, some help to expand and improve it would really be appreciated. In particular the section on demographics could use some expert input - a report on disability was published recently by StatsSA,. Unfortunately I am not good at exctracting and summarizing the essential elements of such reports, my ability to parse socioeconomic statistics is rather limited. Some of the other sections also need to be expanded before the draft will be ready for mainspace. The article structure is modeled on similar articles such as Disability in Australia and Disability in Sierra Leone. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:56, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I really need some help with the demographics/statistics, please. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:03, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

I would volenteer myself but I am a bit snowed under these days with work and I suspect my ability with the stats might not be much better than anyone else's. Although I might be able to give it a go after the 1st November. In the mean time I would suggest asking Htonl, he is a wizz at that sort of stuff.--Discott (talk) 14:44, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments Award Ceremony

We have pleasure in inviting you to the 3rd Wiki Loves Monuments South Africa Award Ceremony, an event where winners of this year’s South African component of the largest photographic competition in the world, will be awarded their prizes.

The best photographs submitted from South Africa and around the world will be on display.

Please join us on Saturday, 1 November 2014 at 18:00 at the Slave Church 40 Long Street, Cape Town.

Refreshments will be served at this semi-formal occasion.

Please feel free to forward this invitation on to anyone who you feel might be interested in attending, and you are welcome to bring along a partner.

For more information or to RSVP please email The Administrator

Wiki Regards

--Humetheresa (talk) 07:35, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Dennis East

Hi all. This article is up for AfD - Can someone more knowledgeable about SA music weigh in? Gbawden (talk) 14:13, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Update on Wikimedia South Africa Annual General Meeting

This is to inform all interested parties that the Wikimedia ZA annual general meeting will be held on the 1st November 2014.

Location: Cape Town (you may join us over Google Hangout; if you are going to join us digitally then please let me know so I can send you and invitation)

Time: 11:30am to 3:30pm

Date: Saturday, 1st November 2014

We will inform everyone closer to the time on the exact location within Cape Town of the AGM. We are currently looking at two possible locations.

--Humetheresa (talk) 14:21, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I just want to update everyone that the AGM will be taking place on the first floor of the Truth Coffee Building at 36 Bree Street. More information about the event can be found here.--Discott (talk) 14:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia ZA Annual Report

A copy of our Annual Report is now available online

--Humetheresa (talk) 10:38, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Oudtshoorn

Guys, this is an iconic town with a rich and colourful history. I've been improving it, but I could use your help, too. Please and thank you. Willhesucceed (talk) 03:49, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I added a lot, but there's still quite a bit missing, for example on Oudtshoorn's importance to trade, and especially with regard to pre-settlement history. Please, feel free to add to it.

I'd also appreciate it if someone could do some copy editing. A fresh pair of eyes would be of much help. I'm aware the article is not as encyclopaedic in tone as it could be. Willhesucceed (talk) 18:20, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Trade Unions

Hi all, I am attempting to work on the pages for the different page unions since when looking up information on the unions due to their recent appearance in the news, I found them pretty much all to be stubs or extremely outdated and unsourced. This is a massive job. I would like someone to go through the Congress of South African Trade Unions page and the Democratic Nursing Organisation of South Africa page in which I have started making edits to see how they can be improved as I am sure my edits are nowhere near to the standard that they could be or should be. Any help and advice with regards to these articles would be much appreciated. --DSBennie (talk) 14:48, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School: first Calls for Articles!

Hi everybody, I'm quite excited to announce the first two articles selected to kick-start the content phase of the Wikipedia Primary School project! This research project focuses on the South Africa primary school curriculum: the involved teams have selected a list of 100+ relevant articles which will undergo review (or creation) by Wikipedians, scholars/experts, or journals. We thought that involving the Wikipedia community was the obvious first step in the process, which is going to last for the next couple of years. So the articles we'd like to suggest for creation are:

Makhonjwa Mountains;
Stone-walled town of Kaditshwene.

Please see the project pages for more information and instructions, and thanks in advance for your invaluable help. Best, --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 12:59, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Africa Competition

The Wiki Loves Africa Photo Competition comes to an end on 30 November 2014.

On 28 November there will be a Cook-Off where 4 chefs representing Cape Town's diverse culinary traditions will be on display. Of course there will be tasting as well.

We are inviting chefs to donate recipes to a Wikibook of Cape Cuisine and attendants will also have the opportunity to share theirs.

There will be an opportunity for people to upload their images to the contest and we are calling all volunteers who are willing to assist people in doing so.

Where : 6 Spin Street, Cape Town

Time : 15:00 - 17:00

We hope to see you there!

--Humetheresa (talk) 06:31, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Youth in South Africa article

Hey all! I've created a new article, Youth in South Africa. I'd love feedback, edits, and contribution on my work. Thanks! Macmaclee (talk) 16:15, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I've done some categorization. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

The article is missing a section on politics. Youth have played a major role in SA politics over a very long period - many political organisations (particularly on the left of the spectrum) tend to have strong youth wings. Example: the 1976 Soweto uprising was initiated by high school students. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:06, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

South African Arms Deal

My fellow Milhistorians, this article could do with some updating to take into account the Seriti Commission Gbawden (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

First Thursdays

Have you heard of First Thursdays, an incredible way of experiencing the cultural wealth Cape Town has to offer?

This Thursday, entries from the Wiki Loves Monuments 2014 competition will be on display, and auctioned to help raise funds for Wikimedia ZA, a not-for-profit organisation representing Wikipedia editors in South Africa.

When : 4 December 2014

Where : iSSi on Bree, 130 Bree St

We would love to see you there so please diarise the date and join us! --Humetheresa (talk) 08:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

2014 Synagogue Church building collapse

The article is a truly pathetic little stub sourced only from Nigerian media. As it has had such a large social and political impact in SA I think this project should give the page some attention. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 22:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Good day Dodger67, I will assist in improving the article but unfortunately there is little information on this topic as the investigation has not yet been completed. --DSBennie (talk) 15:24, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

There's the whole diplomatic to-and-fro about Nigeria's slowness in identifying and releasing the bodies of the SA casualties - that has played out in the press for weeks. The church's PR people have put out a lot of material and many sources have responded to it too. The official investigation is only one aspect of the story. (Unfortunately my time here is very limited currently, but please feel free to jump right in, don't wait for me.) Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:36, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I could not agree more, this is a very important even and it is very poorly covered here. Even if there is little avalable sources on what actually happened there is, in South Africa at least, a wealth of sources that can be used to cover the diplomatic impact of this event.--Discott (talk) 09:03, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Dictionary of SA Place Names

I've got a copy of the (just published this year) 4th edition of the Dictionary of Southern African Place Names. I'm happy to look up entries for anyone who wants to use them as references for articles. (The 1987 first edition is also available on the Internet Archive here.) - htonl (talk) 11:20, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School: first call for Community Reviews

Hi everybody! After our previous call for articles, here is a friendly invite to improve some articles before a version is sent to some external experts for review in January 2015. Deadline is Dec 31, 2014 for: Walter Sisulu — Discrimination — Stereotype — Herero and Namaqua Genocide— Winnie Madikizela-Mandela — Frances Baard — San people. Thanks a lot for your help with this! --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 16:30, 18 December 2014 (UTC), Wikipedia Primary School project.

Just Done Productions Publishing

Hi all. Can I ask my fellow MILHISTorians to weigh in on the AfD of this article? Unfortunately the page creator BoonDock has a COI as the founder of Just Done. Gbawden (talk) 17:53, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Without any independent reliable sources the article will not survive. Has any magazine or newspaper ever written an article about the company? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:01, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

7th Cape Town Meetup

Hello everyone, just wanted to let you all know about the 7th Cape Town Wikipedia meetup will be happening on Sunday the 1st February 2015. Check out its page for more details. --Discott (talk) 14:48, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

How do I join WikiProject South Africa?

Chris Lowe (talk) 22:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Welcome Chris. You can add your name to Participants link above. Also under the Main Page link above, have a look at the Project statistics at the pages that are unique to our WikiProject, some need work on them or look at adding new work.Conlinp (talk) 07:46, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Research Invitation - Bilingual English/isiXhosa Speakers

UCT invites all bilingual English/isiXhosa speakers to participate in a competitive online game to translate South African Wikipedia articles from English into isiXhosa. Participation is entirely voluntary and all identifying information will be kept confidential. There is no financial remuneration for participating.

To register for the game please click here to complete the registration form. After registering you can begin translating content and ranking other user translations immediately.

You will compete with other participants on translation score and can view your ranking on the leaderboard. Translate and rank more to beat the other participants to the top. The game is not limited to UCT students. Anyone with conversational language skills in both English and isiXhosa may participate.

If you have any questions or concerns about this study, please feel free to contact Sean Packham at pcksea001@myuct.ac.za. I am UCT MSc student in the Department of Computer Science being supervised by Prof. Hussein Suleman. This study has been approved by the Faculty of Science Ethics Committee at The University of Cape Town (ref no: FSREC 055–2014). --Humetheresa (talk) 07:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@Humetheresa, you forgot to include the "click here" external link in the second paragraph. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I have corrected it above. --Humetheresa (talk) 07:52, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RunwaySale

Hi everyone

This is the first article I have ever written. It is for RunwaySale, a South African online retail site. I have encountered two issues

1. It has been written as a advertisement 2. it is an orphan with no other Wiki pages linking to it.

Please can someone offer me some guidance with these two issues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

I have edited the article to reduce the promotional tone. I'm afraid I can't do anything about the orphan issue, as it seems that other directly relevant articles do not exist (yet). Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for making the changes Roger (Dodger67), it has improved the encyclopedic tone of the article which is always a good thing on Wikipedia especially for a company page. I am not so sure how to fix that orphan issue either. To the original author, thanks for making the edit and welcome to editing community. Company articles are always a tricky thing to write and it is not helped by the fact that very few people edit articles about companies on Wikipedia.--Discott (talk) 10:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree, companies/organisations and people are by far the most difficult subjects to write about. If you want to get some relatively easy wiki-writing practice create articles about species. All properly described and named plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, etc. are notable and sufficient sources for at least an acceptable stub are quite easy to find. I'm always most comfortable here when I know nothing at all about the subject, it forces one to strictly follow the source. It's also rather difficult to have a bias or strong opinion about topics such as pond scum, grasses, beetles or birds. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Art & dog ...

Axxter99 (talk) 13:09, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Axxter99, did you mean to say something about those articles? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Axxter99 - stroke

. Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa - class: ????

Article	Wikipedia	South Africa - Axxter99	Note
Just Nuisance	WikiProject Military history - C-class WikiProject Dogs --start, Mid-importance	Rated Start-class, Mid-importance	C ?
Moses Kottler	WikiProject Biography - C WikiProject Visual arts -- C	Rated C
Lippy Lipshitz	WikiProject Biography - Start WikiProject Visual arts -- Start	Rated Start	C ?
Rustenburg School for Girls	WikiProject Schools - Start	Rated Start

? Axxter99 (talk) 12:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, we're not clairvoyant here. Try writing an actual sentence or three, meaning is easily and accurately conveyed in well-crafted prose. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Porterville page

Porterville page includes data link to 2011 census but the data actually displayed on the front page is 2001 census so front page needs updating.

Thanks for pointing this out, not so sure which 2001 "front page" data issue you are talking about? On a side note, I actually think the whole "Demographics (2001)" section is superfluous and should be removed. Not going to do that yet but will make a note of it.--Discott (talk) 11:45, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Pinging demographics specialists User:htonl and User:NJR_ZA - Could this be a page we overlooked when the 2011 census update was done? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

And User:Underlying lk too... Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I've replaced the "Demographics (2001)" section with a bit of prose summarising the 2011 info. - htonl (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Aerial Photograph competition: suggestions for content submissions

I am currently working on a grant application from the Wikimedia Foundation to run a photographic competition for aerial photographs of South African subjects for use on Wikipedia. I would like to get your input on what sort of pictures and video media you feel we need on Wikipedia to better illustrate South Africa related topics on Wikipedia? They will obviously have to be within the confines of South African laws and guidlines (so no photographs of national key points or strategic assets for example). At the moment the list I have is based on my perceptions of what is needed but I want to get all of your input on this as well and my understanding of what is need will obviously not be as complete as all of us put together. Here is the list I have so far:

Places of geographical interest: mountains, beaches, hills, biomes, bays, rivers, ect.
Public historic sites: battle sites, monuments (even new monuments can be added so long as they are video footage), ect.
Settlements: neighbourhoods, towns, villages, ect.
Infrastructure: highways, power stations, and national roads.
Private places of interest with owner's consent: wine farms, historic buildings, ect.

Thanks, --Discott (talk) 10:53, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

I forgot to mention. I am also looking for Wikipedia editors who would be willing to assist me in reviewing submissions to this competition. Also looking for anyone interested in helping me use submitted content that has not already been used to illustrate Wikipedia articles after the competition has ended. If you are interested then please let me know. Cheers, --Discott (talk) 11:40, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Maybe advertising this on http://www.avcom.co.za/ - SA's biggest aviation online forum - could be a good idea. I am a registered user there. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Great idea Roger (Dodger67), we will do that! Thanks for the suggestion, --Discott (talk) 12:19, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Wiki from Above 2015

Introducing Wiki From Above - an exciting new competition for aerial photographic and video media to be used on Wikipedia.

Wikimedia ZA has joined forces with FPV Fest SA to help encourage people to contribute aerial video and photographic content to Wikimedia Commons for use on Wikipedia.

For more information, please visit Wiki From Above 2015 --Humetheresa (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School invitation

Hi everybody. On behalf of the teams behind the Wikipedia Primary School research project, I would like to announce that the articles Transport in South Africa — Khoikhoi — Republic of South Africa — Coal in South Africa — Water supply and sanitation in South Africa — Water privatization in South Africa — Healthcare in South Africa — Nelson Mandela — Apartheid — Oliver Tambo , of interest to this wikiproject, were selected a while ago to be reviewed by external experts. We'd now like to ask interested editors to join our efforts and improve the articles before March 15, 2015 (any timezone) as they see fit; a revision will be then sent to the designated experts for review (for details, please see each articles' talk page). Any notes and remarks written by the external experts will be made available on the articles' talk pages under a CC-BY-SA license as soon as possible, so that you can read them, discuss them and then decide if and how to use them. Please sign up here to let us know you're collaborating. Thanks a lot for your support! Elitre (WPS) (talk) 17:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know about this Elitre (WPS). Sounds like a great project. Have you tried sending out an email about this to the Wikimedia ZA mailing list as well? --Discott (talk) 10:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind note! I haven't done so directly, no. Thank you for your suggestion, I will probably send an email there soon-ish, if nobody beats me at it. Further off-wiki engagement is definitely in my plans. Would you like to suggest other relevant venues for similar announcements? Best, --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 13:07, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey Discott, I did like you suggested - also crossposted to wikimediaza mailing list. Is there any article above which could interest you? I've seen people working on Apartheid already. Best, --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 10:21, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Elitre (WPS), I might improve Coal in South Africa a bit if I have some time. I must still also edit a number of other articles that are at risk of deletion so its not certain I will be able to do it. --Discott (talk) 19:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Primary School update

Hello again. As you know, several articles of interest to your wikiproject were selected a while ago to be reviewed by an external expert. We'd now like to ask interested editors to join our efforts and improve the following articles before March 31, 2015 (any timezone) as they see fit: Western Cape - Cradle of Humankind - Domestic violence in South Africa. A revision will be then sent to the designated expert for review. Any notes and remarks written by the external expert will be made available on the articles' talk pages under a CC-BY-SA license as soon as possible, so that you can read them, discuss them and then decide if and how to use them. Don't forget to sign up here to let us know you're collaborating ;) Thanks a lot for your support! --Elitre (WPS) (talk) 12:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Draft:2015 Cape wildfires

Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks. Nathan121212 (talk) 16:11, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Interview with Jimmy Wales

Meet the Wikipedians. Those "persnickety," techy types who keep your favorite Internet information website brimming with data.

Listen to the interview with Jimmy Wales on CBS's 60 minutes, a nice intro to what Wikipedia is all about.

--Humetheresa (talk) 07:12, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

South African Survey

We want to find out more about editors in South Africa and your experiences in the Wiki World!

Whether you are a very active editor / contributor, or just edit on occasion, please help us determine some key metrics by completing the online survey.

Many thanks --Humetheresa (talk) 11:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Pageview stats

After a recent request, I added WikiProject South Africa to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the Tool Labs tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 03:56, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Hideous drawings in SANDF related articles

Someone has been adding numerous amateurish "cartoonish" drawings of SANDF equipment to many articles. Some of the drawings are also fictional, depicting types and variants of items that do not actually exist. Meanwhile there are numerous actual photos available on commons which should be used instead of these cartoons. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Wiki from Above is reaching the end

Just a reminder about the Wiki from Above competition which comes to an end this month.

If you are in Cape Town, please join us for the final workshop.

Date : 25 April

Time : 10:00 - 12:00

8 Spin Street, Cape Town

There will be an tutorial on how to enter your submissions for the competition followed with by an upload marathon where you can submit your entries on Commons.

We hope to see you there!

Wiki Regards --Humetheresa (talk) 09:59, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Wiki from Above - Extension of Competition Date

Just a quick note to advise that the Wiki from Above competition has been extended. Closing dates for entries is now 25 May 2015.

To find out more about the competition, please visit the competition webpage.

--Humetheresa (talk) 07:34, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Wiki from Above Workshop

Just a quick reminder of the upcoming Wiki from Above workshop in Cape Town, Saturday, 25 April at 10:00.

More details can be found on the competition page!

Remember, the competition has been extended to the end of May, so plenty of time to still submit your entries!

Wiki Regards --Humetheresa (talk) 07:24, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Wie dit mag aangaan

Ek het as kind daar gebly,en wil weet is dit al wat nog daar staan? Net die kerk? Kan daar nie meer fotos geplaas word nie of is daar iewers anders n site van my geliefkoosde dorpie? Wil net weet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.229.72.39 (talk) 06:49, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi daar, ek werk vir Wikimedia ZA. Stuur asseblief vir my meer inligting dan kyk of ek of enige iemand in die Afrikaanse Wiki gemeenskap vir jou van hulp kan wees. Theresa Hume Groete, --Humetheresa (talk) 07:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Denver train crash

I've created the Denver train crash article. Wikipedians in South Africa, particularly Johannesburg, will be in a better postition that I am to find sources and expand upon the article. Mjroots (talk) 10:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

8th Wiki Meetup - Cape Town

The 8th Cape Town meetup will coincide with the FPV Fest with whom Wikimedia ZA has partnered to host the Wiki From Above photographic competition. The event will take place in Stellenbosch at the Wild Clover Farm. You will have the opportunity to see some drones flying around and meet some members of South Africa's growing drone piloting community.

Date : Saturday, 30 May

Time : 10:00 onwards

For more information, please visit the meetup page on meta

Wiki Regards --Humetheresa (talk) 11:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for updating everyone about this Humetheresa! --Discott (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Relevant move request

There is a move request at Talk:Epping (disambiguation) that members of this project may be interested in. Egsan Bacon (talk) 14:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up Egsan Bacon.--Discott (talk) 14:12, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Draft:Geology of South Africa

I have started a draft for what should be one of the fundamental "about the country" articles, please feel free to contribute. I have only a very basic knowlege of geology - high school level (30 years ago) plus some casual reading since. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Great start Roger (Dodger67) and also a great article to have. I might contribute to it although I am a little bit hesitant only because I am not very experienced with writing geography based articles. But even if I don't I still want to thank you for working on it. :-) --Discott (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

SA Survey Questionnaire

Just a reminder of our online user / contributor survey.

If you live in South Africa and edit any of the Wiki-projects, please take a few minutes to complete the survey. We want to learn more about you and your experiences in editing the Wiki's!

The survey will run until midnight on 12 June 2015.

Wiki Regards, --Humetheresa (talk) 09:38, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Announcing the Winners of Wiki from Above

Saturday, 30th May at the Wild Clover farm in Stellenbosch. It will begin at 10am and go on until around 2pm. Times are flexible. All are welcome, especially if you have an interest in anything Wiki related.

At this event we will also be announcing the winners of the Wiki From Above aerial photographic competition.

Location : Wild Clover Farm, SMAA, Stellenbosch

Directions : from N1 north 1 km past the Engen 1 stop, take the Klipheuwel/ Stellenbosch offramp. Turn right towards Stellenbosch, over the freeway, over a railway bridge and approx. 1.2 kms from the Villiera/ Koelenhof signs on the right-hand side.

Wild Clover Farm phone number : +27 (0)21 865 2248

If you have any questions please feel free to contact Douglas Scott on 079 515 8727.

Wiki Regards --Humetheresa (talk) 09:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia in local news

Roets, Euodia (18 October 2013). "How Woolworths really operates!". Touchee Feelee. Retrieved 18 October 2013.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Firepool

Please participate in the discussion. Helen Online 07:24, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
When? June 2015
How can you help?
1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here

2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)

3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Another Believer (talk • contribs) 15:49, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikimania 2015 update

Hello everyone. I have just arrived back in South Africa and want to give you all an update on how this year's Wikimania (15-19 July). Firstly I want to congratulate Ivan and the rest of the team in Mexico City for organising such a great event. It was smaller than previous Wikimania's but had a heavier Latin influence and was more intimate than the one in London last year. For the first time we had some one from Afrikaans Wikipedia there (User:Oesjaar) which was great! You can read his report on Afrikaans Wikipedia here. I hope we can always have some one from Afrikaans Wikipedia at future events and hopefully also other South African language Wikipedias as well (once they have an active community on their Wikis).

I also hope we can have a more representative group from South Africa attending future Wikimania which is why I want to strongly encourage people to submit scholorship applications to attend Wikimania. Even if you were unsuccessful in the past you are still strongly encouraged to apply. If you want to increase your chances of getting a scholarship then I would suggest getting involved in local chapter activities by volunteering for events or take the initiative by organising Wikipedia related events (meetups, upload marathons, competitions, etc.). Contact the South African chapter of Wikimedia for more information.

Key highlights:

State of the Wiki by Jimmy Wales: focused on media freedom and the right of Wikipedia editors to contribute without the threat of intimidation by the state. Looked at the situation of a Wikipedia editor in Venezuela.
We had a strongly positive response to the infographic (which can be seen above) summarising the results of our survey. We also displayed a graphic summarising the status of Afrikaans Wikipedia.
Libraries: looks like we will be getting more involved with promoting Wikipedia amoungst librarians in the future on behalf of the foundation in South Africa.
Wikipedia in education: learnt about some great projects being done by other chapters encouraging gifted school children to edit Wikipedia.
Videos on Wikipedia: learnt about new and easier ways to upload videos for use on Wikipedia (some thing called "Schnitzel" - I am still learning about it) and got to talk about the Wiki From Above competition we recently did to get aerial shots for use on Wikipedia.--Discott (talk) 04:51, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

template:South African Parliament Party Leaders has been nominated for deletion -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

9th Cape Town meetup

Hello everyone, this is just everyone in the Cape Town/Western Cape area know that the 9th Cape Town meetup will be happening this Sunday 6th September 2015. Anyone interested in Wiki related stuff including and especially Wikipedia are welcome to join us. I can guarantee free coffee as usual. For more information check out the meetup page on Wikipedia at the link here.

In brief the details are:

Time and Date: 11:00-14:00, Sunday 6th Sept
Location: Truth Coffee, 36 Buitenkant St, Cape Town 8000, South Africa

Cheers, --Discott (talk) 10:13, 31 August 2015 (UTC)