Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 17

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 10

←

Archive 15

Zim vs Ken

There's a tour going on which seems to have completely slipped under our radar: Kenya are touring Zimbabwe for five ODIs (and are currently leading 2-1). I've created Kenyan cricket team in Zimbabwe in 2005-06 more as a placeholder than anything. Has anyone got time to do it better? Also, to add the tour to International cricket in 2005-06? Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:55, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

And Kenya are winning :) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The series ends up as 2-2! DaGizza^Chat ^© 01:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed linking to International cricket in 2005-06 and added infobox to the article. - Ganeshk (talk) 11:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

National team page moves

The page English cricket team has been listed for renaming at WP:RM - see discussion at Talk:English cricket team. It would seem sensible that all the national team pages should be consistently named, so the other team pages probably ought to be added to the discussion as well. — sjorford (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

"Australia cricket team", Bangladesh cricket team", "England cricket team", "India cricket team", "Kenya cricket team". "Namibia cricket team", "New Zealand cricket team", etc ... What do others think? --Philip Baird Shearer 22:16, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree - it makes more sense with the other sports teams. Plus, as others have mentioned, there's only one team representing England (the England team), but plenty of English teams Sam Vimes 23:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

It could equally be "Australian national cricket team" or "Dutch East Indian national cricket team" (does that exist?), although that is a little clunky. The same debate is rather humourously summarised in Duncan Fletcher: he is the England coach, but he isn't an English coach. Sam Korn ^(smoddy) 23:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Or "England national cricket team". I prefer "England cricket team", but (i) I have a memory that it used to say "England" but it moved to "English" after some discussion; (ii) is there a consistent nomenclature in the articles of other sports? Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Soccer uses the shorter form. A Google fight between "Australia cricket team" and "Australian cricket team", the latter (which is the only way I'd render it) wins 72,200 to 768 --Paul 11:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Um - don't we add "national" for the football teams? See England national football team, for example (and England national cricket team is already a redirect); also remember the women's cricket teams England women's national cricket team, like England women's national football team?) -- ALoan (Talk) 12:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Football has oodles of categories - Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football/Category - perhaps we should ask them to explain what they do and why? -- ALoan (Talk) 12:28, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention style guides, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams and Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Clubs - we have Template:Infobox Test team for Test teams, but not one for national sides, nor an overall page layout and style guide.

Having written [[XXXian cricket team | XXX]] more times than I care to mention, perhaps we should have redirects at, say England (cricket) so we can do the pipe trick? -- ALoan (Talk) 13:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Also England national rugby union team but Australian national rugby union team --Philip Baird Shearer 14:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Season end?

Currently International cricket in 2005-06 has series until April 2006. Should we create a new article for the next year or continue adding to the same year? When does a cricket season end and next season start? Someone brought this up here.- Ganeshk (talk) 11:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is a short explanation. Basically, it depends where the match is played, which means that seasons can even overlap. (Although I think even that explanation is out of date because matches in Darwin and Cairns count as taking place in the single-year Australian winter season. [1]). Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

CricketArchive usually get's the seasons just aobut right, although even this is looking a little strange now. They have matches played in 2007 for the 2006 Intercontinental Cup within the 2006 season. Andrew 17:25, 12th March 2006 (UTC)

Wasim Akram

There is an anon who is stealthily inflating Akram's statistics - unfortunately the vandal tools don't pick this up so we have to be vigilant with this stuff by looking up the manual list of recent edits to Test cricketers.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 04:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed Indian ODI Bios!

I have completed the Indian ODI Bios List!!! Still the non existent articles have been replaced by stubs containing base info about the lesser known players. Here is a list of the stubs I have created. It would be greatly appreciated if someone gives some more meat to these articles especially the players who have also played Test Cricket.

Cheers!

Srikeit 06:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Good work, but those who played Tests (Kulkarni, Skehar, Raman) already had articles, which may mean they have slightly different titles in the ODI list as opposed to the Test list. Which should be sorted out --Paul 09:50, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

~~Rajiv Kulkarni <-> Raju Kulkarni~~ merged and expanded at Raju Kulkarni, as that is what cricinfo calls him

~~W.V. Raman <-> Woorkeri Raman~~ merged and expanded at Woorkeri Raman, as that is what cricinfo calls him

T.A. Sekhar is the ODI and Test page already -- ALoan (Talk) 12:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes

It's a bit off what the project is aiming to achieve, but I've added a full list of ODI playing country's userboxes at Wikipedia:Userboxes/Sports#Cricket. Have fun using them. mdmanser 12:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed ODI Bios of SA, WI & UAE!

Whew!! that was hard work!! Well its finally over! I have completed the ODI Bios of South Africa, West Indies & UAE. I have only created stubs, so it will be much appreciated if someone expands them & corrects whatever mistakes I might have made. They can be found at theRecent changespage.

Cheers

Srikeit 07:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)^{(talk ¦ ✉)}

Zimbabwe

Does this mean we need to rework the Zimbabwean cricket team article and {{National cricket teams}} template? And anything else? -- Ian ≡ talk 00:12, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it, the Zimbabwean national governing body has decided that the team will not play any Tests this year, but the team still has Test status per se, in the sense that it could play Tests if it wanted to, Zimbabwe remains a full member of the ICC, etc. On that basis, I don't think the template needs to change (it would be difficult to explain the situation easily) but the team article (and Test cricket) should explain what is going on. But I could be persuaded that my understanding is not correct... -- ALoan (Talk) 21:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Non Test national teams

Following non-test level cricket is a bit of a hobby of mine, and would like to help out with this in whatever way I can. I have records from quite a few non-test tournaments, and could perhaps create some pages for the various national teams with their tournament records on.

Also I have the basic outline for the 2011 World Cup qualification, and can do some work on this if required.

Andrew

That would be great! Thank you. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added a page for the Argentine cricket team, could someone check it out and tell me if this is an acceptable layout? Be gentle, it's my first time! Andrew, 15:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

That's absolutely lovely - you've even got some references. Would like some more in the ICC Trophy section, but it's still very good. Sam Vimes

I think what I'll do is to get a basic outline for each country before going into the really advanced details. Andrew, 18:17, 12th March 2006 (UTC)

I've now added a page for the Belgian cricket team, and updated the International Teams template. I'm slowly getting the hang of this! Andrew nixon 14:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Now also have a page for Botswana, and I've done some work on the pages for Bermuda, Canada and the Cayman Islands. Andrew nixon 10:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Added page for Fiji, and polished up Denmark. Andrew nixon 13:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ranji Trophy teams

I have come up with a simple way to create articles for each of the Ranji Trophy teams, this will allow experts on the subject to expand them more easily. An example for my method can be seen on the Railways cricket team and Baroda cricket team which I've recently created.

It consists of

Introductory Paragraph
Competition History
Famous Players
Current Squad
See Also

The intro paragraph needs some thinking about to create. But the rest are simple.

Competition history can be found at Cricinfo's history of Indian Domestic Cricket. What is needed is a re-worded summary of the team's successes and failures in the three tournaments it participates in (Ranji Trophy, Ranji Trophy ODI and Irani Trophy).

Famous players also requires some knowledge about cricket and the players that went through each team, but this part can be expanded through the work of many different users.

Current Squads can be seen here

See Also consists of: {{Cricket-stub}} {{India-stub}} {{Ranji Trophy cricket teams}} And enter it into : Category:Indian first class cricket teams

Which means all the pages can be created easily, thanks to the information provided on cricinfo.

Nobleeagle 02:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Wanderers

Is Wanderers Stadium the same as New Wanderers Stadium? If so, what name should they be merged under? Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:07, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Cricket Archive has separate pages for them, and they usually have the same page for grounds that have changed their name. Andrew 17:44, 12th March 2006 (UTC)

They have Old Wanderers too, but we also have a page for that. I still think we have one too many. Can any South Africans give a definite opinion? Stephen Turner (Talk) 18:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Tournament Histories

I've noticed that national team pages for soccer have the team's history in international tournaments as part of the article. It could be a good idea to do something like this for cricket. Andrew

I've added these to the pages of the ICC full members (to the separate History page for the West Indies)Andrew nixon 12:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Keeping an eye on Aussie and Proteas related pages

The world record is sure to bring some anti-Aussie anons vandalising their pages while the South Africans will probably be edited by strong POV. Can someone keep an eye on them? Gizza^Chat ^© 19:41, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you shouldn't waste too much time for one day, let the ecstacy and disappointment die down a little bit, you must admit, the match was something truly special. Nobleeagle 02:30, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Memorable knocks

How about a page be created with memorable knocks and there description? Page should be sortable based on country.

In similar vein, a page on great bowling performances.

+10 000 thundering typhoons 07:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)+

It is a good idea, but that means the batting/bowling performances will be based on opinion rather than fact, something not desired by Wikipedia. Gizza^Chat ^© 08:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, agree. Good idea, but it would be difficult to keep the lists within the bounds of WP:NPOV and WP:OR. --Muchness 08:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps design some sort of criteria (such as over 175+ runs in an ODI Innings). Because anything that matches these criteria are almost definitely memorable. Then simply descirbe the innings. But this would leave out exceptional innings played under pressure that scored only 100 or so. A bit of a problem... Nobleeagle 08:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Let us focus on ODI's and see if we can make this work. If an innings won the match and the batsman got the man of the match and there were "trying circumstances" then this is a candidate for memorable knock. Similar thing for a bowler. I know there are memorable performaces for the loosing side too but let us just focus on winnings for now. So is Gibbs' innings from day before yesterday a memorable knock, yes.

How should we quantify "trying circumstances"?

+10 000 thundering typhoons 14:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)+

Well, going for true objectivity, we have List of Test cricket triple centuries and List of First-class cricket quadruple centuries, and Test cricket hat-tricks... But the fact is that a relatively small score in a low-scoring match can be more important than a triple century in a draw. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

There may be some good sources from CI or CA, such as an article discussing memorable knocks. It would then have to be stated that they were claimed to be great innings/bowling spells by the respctive sources.Gizza^Chat ^© 11:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Cota Ramaswami

Can an admin delete Cotah Ramaswami. I am planning to move Cotar Ramaswami to Cotah. Tintin (talk) 08:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Cotah is gone. -- Ian ≡ talk 09:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Tintin (talk) 10:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Cricinfo...

...is edited by its founder, Simon King - [2]? -- ALoan (Talk) 02:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed ODI Bios for Kenya & NZ!

Well Im seriously considering renaming myself stubmaster! Ive once again replaced the redlinks with stubs. Any corrections to mistakes made by me or expansion of the stubs will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 05:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Nice, I must have done close to a thousand Test stubs, was intending to fill in the ODIs, but got a bad case of wikifatigue. --Paul 06:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I can understand. You're just creating a stub & like suddenly strikes you "What the holy heck am I doing creating an article for some godforsaken player who played only one lousy ODI & didnt even score any runs it!!" But what keeps me going is the satisfaction of adding that strikeout before a teams name!

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 07:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

French Cricket

As I've now created a page for the French national team, I've added a link to page for French cricket, so people can find information about the French national team if they search for French cricket. Andrew nixon 15:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone speak German?

I've created a page for the German cricket team, but could do with knowing if there is any useful information on the official site. If anyone speaks German, or knows someone who does, I'd appreciate a translation. Thanks! Andrew nixon 21:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The Babelfish version suggests not. Sam Korn ^(smoddy) 21:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It didn't look like it would, ah well, worth a try! Andrew nixon 22:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Sam Vimes has a German userbox.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Aye. Still, that site's complete rubbish as far as an encyclopedia article is concerned. Sam Vimes 08:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I've just joined the project so apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. I made a reasonably big addition to the career story section in Andrew Flintoff's article last night, and I'd be interested to know if people think I've written it in the right style, in keeping with other articles, and if you have any other comments. I've only been following cricket for about 2 or 3 years and I don't know a huge amount about cricketing history so I figured I may as well contribute to an article I know something about! Jimbow25 12:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry - that looks fine. I am very impressed with you having added <ref>s. Well done. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

New page

Please add as you seem fit. Created a small stub for Gibbs and Kapil. Will add more later. Memorable ODI batting performance. +10 000 thundering typhoons 18:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)+

Non test nations - an update

Just to let you all know that I have now created/expanded articles for the associate nations from Argentina through to Kenya. Feel free to have a quick look at them and see if there is anything that needs improving.Andrew nixon 21:25, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Why has template cricketbio-stub been moved to cricket-bio-stub?

See Template talk:Cricket-bio-stub (sic - which is my point, as I'll explain).

I've been out of the loop here for a while, so apologies if this is nothing new, but putting the hyphen in seems to break things a bit. For example, we have {{Australia-cricketbio-stub}} (no hyphen between "cricket" and "bio"). In fact, when I proposed the creation of this stub [3], this very issue came up, and I pointed out that we have, for example, {{Baseballbio-stub}}, so "cricket-bio-stub" would not follow precedent.

Personally I'm not very happy with this change, especially as it seems to have been made unilaterally by User:Freakofnurture without any discussion here, but as I say I've been away for a bit and so may well have missed something. Comments? Loganberry (Talk) 01:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it was moved only yesterday. I'm not quite sure what to do with it - there are precedents for both things - but I suppose this is Stub sorting department, not ours? Sam Vimes 08:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Although cricket-bio-stub makes more sense to me, I think it should be moved back for now as there was no discussion of it. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to that usage, so long as we were consistent - which would mean having, for example, england-cricket-bio-stub. As things stand, the national stubs don't have a hyphen between cricket and bio, whereas the general one does. That seems about the least logical solution of all! Loganberry (Talk) 14:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed ODI Bios of The Netherlands!

Bios of the Netherlands just completed, although some of the spellings of names can be a bit dicey. Anyone who is Dutch or is familiar with Dutch names please check it out.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 06:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Category for renaming

Category:Papua New Guinean ODI cricketers is simply wrong (as everyone who knows who's played a one-day international should know). I've suggested a rename at CFD Sam Vimes 08:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

WCOTF

WCOTF (Wikipedia Cricket/Collaboration of the fortnight) is a Wiki-collaboration where WikiProject Cricket participants or cricket contributors vote an article to become the Collaboration of the week & then raise the level of the article ideally to featured status. But basically it consists of improving the articles of inportance to cricket to a level of respectability. WCOTF has been inactive for some time now. I think the time is ripe to restart it as now we have many new participants who are good contributers. So I would like to know what you people think about it.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 12:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I would be happy to help if it were to restart.Nobleeagle (Talk) 22:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image request

Due to Nichalp's request on my talk page, Image:West Indies Cricket Board Flag.svg has been created by me and sent to the Public Domain. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:26, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Lists of cricketers and WP:FLC

Are List of Test cricketers, List of ODI cricketers, and the national sub-lists ready for WP:FLC? Some images, and references, are the main omissions, to my mind, but presuambly easily corrected. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It's about time the cricket project got some attention. I've been around Wikipedia for a while & I must say that the Cricket project surely is one of the best compiled, patrolled & attented to projects on Wikipedia. And by the way I haven't gotten much response to the WCOTF revival proposal (Except for Nobleeagle (Talk)). Seems like no one is interested in it. Thus I think WCOTF will remain dead in the water for some more time :(

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 17:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen Wikipedia:Featured lists? We are quite well known in those parts; not so well in WP:FAC, though. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I have nominated Indian cricket team as Indian Collaboration of the Week (WP:INCOTW). So we can still get a bit of team-based progress done, whether we have the collaboration or not. By the way, it would be nice if any Indian Wikipedians voted for it and helped in improving the article. Nobleeagle (Talk) 04:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Domestic Cricket supporters

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I've reorganised the whole Wikipedians interested in sports category, I'm sure you'll be impressed at the neatness and organisation in it all. I've also decided to add another category, Domestic Cricket supporters, where all the users a part of this project can add themselves to categories of the team they support. Cheers, R o gerthat ^Talk 05:15, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Created Sub-Category for Punjab cricket team. Nobleeagle (Talk) 05:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't that be Category:Wikipedians supporting domestic cricket? Just to avoid self-referencing (i.e. that people might put the category in some articles)? Sam Vimes 07:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Not too sure about the convention, since there was an existing category called "International Cricket supporters". I would argue that it should be "International cricket supporters" as well, but I kept the capital C for consistency. Any thoughts? R o gerthat ^Talk 08:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

POV disputes

I've listed three pages, Sourav Ganguly, Wasim Akram and Shoaib Akhtar on the to-do table as POV disputes (They were tagged by otherss). Please put other POV disputes there so we know about it and can try to fix them up. Regards,Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 02:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Rahul Dravid vs Sachin Tendulkar

Experienced editor, please have a look at these two articles. User:Doctorbruno, who I feel is definitely a Tendulkar fan, is persistently adding micro-commentary to the biographies of Dravid and Tendulkar which I feel are based on random (but purposely selected) recent events and innings which I feel amounts to lobbying and definite POV, such as "roughly" "Tendulkar top scored with 34 yesterday when everyone failed" or "Dravid's Nice Guy image has undoubtedly taken a beating" (wrt declaring in Multan with Tendulkar on 194, this is about personal milestone not captaincy as India won by an innings), and "Dravid's negative batting cost India the third test" and in the Dravid article, comparing Dravid and Tendulkar, while using different filters on their statistics. I feel that Doctorbruno has acted very civilly and is trying to help WP, but I think his support for Tendulkar is extending to almost election-style advertising in the way that statistics are selectively used (unfairly). Comments are requested.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I have spent a lot of time & energy arguing & trying to explain NPOV violations to User:Doctorbruno, time which could have been spent on completing the ODI Bios list. This is really taking it out of me. And he seems determined to keep adding comments which subtly violate NPOV. One of my pet peeves is the NPOV tag on the Indian Cricketers pages, which I find my moral responsibility to remove as most of these article are believed to be fan spam. So any help will be welcome.

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 05:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

He is also determined to defend his edits, and reinsert them if they're removed, against the opinion of everyone else on the talk pages. Stephen Turner (Talk) 15:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Completed ODI Bios for Canada!

Well I was busy with my exams for a while, so could not add any more bios, but i'll be free in a few more days. Anyway the end is in sight!! Aim to complete entire ODI Bios list by April 1. ( & this is no April Fools Joke!)

Thanks

Srik e it^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 07:29, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

AfD

A note to the project that I've just nominated a cricket article for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Memorable ODI batting performance. Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Ranji Trophy famous players

This is mainly for those that have been filling in the Indian Test and ODI bios. If you know the teams in which any famous players belonged to, please put them on the particular team's page. Some teams have got very few famous players on their page despite having a 70 or 80 year history. In particular the Hyderabad cricket team and Saurashtra cricket team. If anyone has a list of the winners of the Plate Championship, it would be much appreciated if you helped edit the pages for the Plate Teams. Nobleeagle (Talk) 23:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)