Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Airports and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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Merge discussion at Talk:Lannion–Côte de Granit Airport

There is a request to merge Lannion Airfield into Lannion–Côte de Granit Airport as coverage of the same topic, if it interests anybody here. ASUKITE 21:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flight trackers

Is a flight tracker a reliable source for a connection? The Banner talk 14:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is in reference to Talk:Nashville International Airport#Vacation Express. I'd say no since they only follow a single plane once. Ought to indicate it's a regularly scheduled flight. Reywas92^Talk 16:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Service resumptions

I am confused on when an airline announces a route, how do we know if it is a resumption of service or if it is a new route? Most airlines will announce a route as “new” when in reality it is not. Jz0610 (talk) 16:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who cares? Is it more than a semantical matter? Important is to know the current situation, history is for historicians. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, we go by what the source says. If the source says resumption then use "resumes" if the source says it is a new route then use "begins". 2600:1700:8544:D000:9D0E:3239:A3E:70F8 (talk) 18:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Erobran and the issue with exact start dates

This user continues to add that Turkish Airlines will start service between Istanbul and Lima starting in June of next year. Me and several other editors have removed it referring him to the project page and discussion based on consensus but he continues to argue against it. Jz0610 (talk) 16:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where? Jan olieslagers (talk) 17:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jan olieslagers: I think at Jorge Chávez International Airport and Istanbul Airport if that's what you mean where. 2600:1700:8544:D000:9D0E:3239:A3E:70F8 (talk) 18:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Busiest international routes from *** section

Airport pages use International_Report_Passengers from the US Department of Transportation for the Busiest international routes sections. The data listed on the International_Report_Passengers page is in different format, vs what is found on the wikipedia page. What is the best way to obtain the data for that section? The "Busiest domestic routes from ***" section is just copying numbers over. Thanks. Dermoid (talk) 20:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phoenix airport renaming

The former "Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport" has dropped Phoenix from its name and now calls itself just "Mesa Gateway Airport". This presents an opportunity to stop using the disambiguated "Phoenix–Sky Harbor" and "Phoenix/Mesa" in destination tables in favor of the simpler "Phoenix" and "Mesa". @VenFlyer98: pointed out that the Mesa airport still serves the Phoenix Metropolitan Area and therefore in accordance with WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT should continue to be include. However, I’ll point out that it’s hardly a rule we closely follow. I see this as akin to a situation like Burbank or Long Beach airports which serve the Los Angeles Metropolitan Area, yet are listed under their own city names not "Los Angeles/Burbank" or "Los Angeles/Long Beach". Furthermore, even if they win their legal case, I doubt we will begin to list Oakland International Airport as "San Francisco/Oakland". RickyCourtney (talk) 21:43, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Airline and destination tables

Our standards say airlines and destination tables may only be included in articles when independent, reliable, secondary sources demonstrate they meet WP:DUE. Over on the LAX page several editors including @Pmbma and @The Banner have been pressing this issue by tagging the table with several CN tags. To be clear, I don’t oppose them doing as such, the conversation needs to be had. My question at this point is, is there even an independent, reliable, secondary source for this information? The one I know of is LexisNexis's Cirium, a private data firm, but I don’t have the ~$30,000/year laying around to pay for an account. So unless we can convince the Wikipedia Library to add it as a source, that’s probably not an option. RickyCourtney (talk) 22:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really want to be a monster jumping on top of people.... but if this policy is to be applied to airports in Europe, then we should be consistent and apply it globally - i.e. all 7 continents, not just 1. My adding the citation-needed tag to just a few airlines on a handful of airports, is to force the conversation - in the past it's been a small number of people getting involved in debate - it really needs to be a lot of people voting on this. A very good starting point of independent data that is not published by either the airline or airport is https://www.aeroroutes.com (no, not advertising, I mention it just as a free source of info that I know to be reliable). You can also try digging out an old paper copy of the OAG timetable from a good reference or university library - you'll likely find one in a city with over a million people. I imagine that good libraries may also have access to the web version of the OAG timetable (yes, this will cost money) - but I'm not sure how we regard this as a reference. That said, www.aeroroutes.com and the OAG paper timetable are not always enough, so one needs to think about what to do when there are gaps - sometimes the websites of local newspapers will fill in some of the gaps, but not always. Do we prefer to make wikipedia fully-independently-referenced or do we prefer wikipedia to be complete... we can't have both. In the meantime, I'd propose we have a 3 month or 6 month freeze on deleting routes in airport-destination tables (unless you are absolutely certain that a route is no longer flown - maybe verify via airline website ?) so that everybody has time to try to fill in the gaps. Pmbma (talk) 22:11, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Has aeroroutes.com been through the process at WP:RS/N? From my quick look over it seems to be a site run by one person, which doesn’t normally pass as a reliable source. OAG would be a wonderful source, but again as a private data broker, charges huge subscription fees. I guess my point is, perhaps if we are going to impose this requirement, the Wikipedia library will need to invest in access to one of these data sources. RickyCourtney (talk) 22:18, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If aeroroutes.com is not acceptable as a reliable source to wikipedia, then we have a problem. I've had email dialogue in the past with the person who runs aeroroutes.com - he has a subscription to some data source and essentially publishes out what he thinks is interesting data from it. OAG were publishing paper timetables until about 2013 - will include many (but not all) stable routes that have been flown by the same airline for years. Getting access to the OAG website is likely to be harder when talking to a library with limited resources. Pmbma (talk) 22:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]