User talk:Pppery/Archive 9

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Pppery. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 5

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Archive 7

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Book RfC close

Hi, you said that you thought me reverting my closure was inappropriate and I'm wondering how you think I should have reacted, apart from the obvious don't close it in the first place. I believed the comment could be considered grounds to revert a closure based on the WP:DRV criteria "significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page" since there are ways to read and create books, even though it require external tools. --Trialpears (talk) 05:50, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I didn't interpret Steelpillow's comment as providing some significant piece of new information, but instead as disagreeing with Moxy and others that the pre-existing functionality of the namespace was sufficient to warrant it not being hidden. Given that interpretation, I believe the close should have stood as-is. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:49, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Template redirects

Thanks for the template modification you made for me last week ({{Infobox_animanga}}). There you stated that the redirects don't have to be followed. Can you explain how that works? Other admins have not raised any question about this when I've made similar requests. Colonies Chris (talk) 13:42, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Your removal proposals of what I uploaded

I have already exposed my disagreement on each removal proposal. But I would like to add the following:

All these modules I uploaded are designed primarily to completely renew Module:Chart (a column diagram). Surely finished in two weeks. This diagram will be much better than the Module:Graph column diagram. A preview can be viewed here: ca:Plantilla:Diagrama de columnes.

In order to facilitate translation in other languages, after consulting with other wikipedians, I opted for the TNT system that allows easy translation and multilingual parameter names (in my case in English and Catalan).

Jmarchn (talk) 22:37, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Module:BrewerColors

You have nothing better to do?.

With your changes it does not work properly. In Function Legends the color list appears in a single column instead of two columns. You can see it in Spanish or Catalan Wikipedia.

Please, revert your edits. --Jmarchn (talk) 21:06, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Please stop trying to overturn the consensus at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 October 27#Module:Multicol. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:11, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Question about Module XfDs

Hi Pppery,

Remember that Module:Quid that you nominated and which I closed yesterday (albeit slightly prematurely, which I've learned now includes relistings)? Well, there was a "/doc" subpage, which administrator Fastily has since deleted. It's probably not a big deal as I don't imagine there was much there more than a placeholder the creating editor couldn't copy+paste from his or her original one, but was just wondering, so I understand the process, when TfDs get closed as "move," is it practice to move the subpages or to delete them?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for everything that you do with respect to cleaning up the lesser-used namespaces. : )

Cheers,
--Doug Mehus T·C 21:00, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Dmehus, any template or module that is moved should have its subpages moved as well, unless there's a reason given in the discussion why they shouldn't be moved. Looking at this page, though, I would say this is one of the few exceptions, because the /doc only contained the TFD nomination and there's not much point in keeping it. Primefac (talk) 21:03, 17 November 2019 (UTC) (talk page stalker)

Primefac, Oh okay, that was what I was thinking. So it was probably just an oversight. Is it worth you undeleting Module:Quid/doc and moving it to the module sandbox? Doug Mehus T·C 21:05, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Disregard my reply. We replied at the same time. Thanks! Doug Mehus T·C 21:06, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

As Primefac said, I created the doc page myself when I nominated the module for deletion, so saw no need to move it along with the rest of the subpages. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:21, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Pppery, Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! I just wanted to make sure I understood the process correctly (which I did) and, as Primefac noted, this seems to be one of those exceptions. Doug Mehus T·C 21:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

ArbCom 2019 election voter message

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Google Code-In 2019 is coming - please mentor some documentation tasks!

Hello,

Google Code-In, Google-organized contest in which the Wikimedia Foundation participates, starts in a few weeks. This contest is about taking high school students into the world of opensource. I'm sending you this message because you recently edited a documentation page at the English Wikipedia.

I would like to ask you to take part in Google Code-In as a mentor. That would mean to prepare at least one task (it can be documentation related, or something else - the other categories are Code, Design, Quality Assurance and Outreach) for the participants, and help the student to complete it. Please sign up at the contest page and send us your Google account address to google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org, so we can invite you in!

From my own experience, Google Code-In can be fun, you can make several new friends, attract new people to your wiki and make them part of your community.

If you have any questions, please let us know at google-code-in-admins@lists.wikimedia.org.

Thank you!

--User:Martin Urbanec (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

How ironic ... * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:26, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Module renamed

Please tell me, based on which rule did you rename the module?·Carn !? 05:58, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

"Newsweek Media Group" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Newsweek Media Group. Since you had some involvement with the Newsweek Media Group redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 01:07, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Be well at Christmas

	Have a WikiChristmas and a PediaNewYear
	Be well. Keep well. Have a lovely Christmas. SilkTork (talk) 15:45, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia Books

Since you participated in the discussion on Wikipedia Books I herewith inform you that a decision has been taken.

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_176#Suppress_rendering_of_Template:Wikipedia_books Dirk Hünniger (talk) 20:34, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

You do realize I worked toward implementing that close already ... * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:41, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Module:IPAc2-mh

You should be aware that Module:IPAc2-mh (formerly at Module:mh-pronunc) is actually a mirrored version of wiktionary:Module:mh-pronunc, and the code is primarily maintained there. When updates are refined there, they are copied here. It is a very complex module with some complex algorithms that are still actively being refined, and since they are part of an active project connecting efforts at both Wikipedia and Wiktionary (discussed at Talk:Marshallese language here at Wikipedia and at wiktionary:User talk:Erutuon on the technical side), it is still currently important for these efforts to remain combined. If you want to participate in refining the module or its code structure, I request that you participate in the effort at Wiktionary. - Gilgamesh (talk) 07:51, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Now, reviewing your own recent edits, the local versions of functions were cached intentionally for performance reasons, as part of an overall effort to improve the module's speed, which especially in the past could be extremely slow to the point where this was considered a potential concern for articles here on Wikipedia like Kwajalein Atoll. The performance hit can be felt most acutely in the debug table at wiktionary:Module:mh-pronunc, which has to be able to refresh as quickly as possible between changes, and at one point this took several times longer to refresh than it does now. As the debug table increases in size, there's also concern that the module could time out before completing, as actually did happen recently at Wikipedia's Talk:Marshallese language such that I had write a demo table there with cached results instead, and looked into getting that talk page bot-archived.

Now, when I started mirroring the module here at Wikipedia, I left a comment at the top:

-- This module is primarily maintained at:
-- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module:mh-pronunc

The intent was for all queries into the module's maintenance to be centered there. Until now, there have only been two editors: Myself and wikt:User:Erutuon (also here as User:Erutuon). A helpful third hand would be appreciated, but the technical challenges need to be understood and respected as they represent real technical restraints on the module's development and debugging at Wiktionary. - Gilgamesh (talk) 08:00, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

As an added note on the linguistics of the topic... Marshallese is a phonologically complex language. User:Austronesier has been assisting me with peer review and feedback in trying to improve the article Marshallese language as well as the linguistic principles informing the refining of the phonetic algorithm the module is designed to calculate. It's a vertical vowel system, with extremely complex rules for consonant and vowel reflexes, which has necessitated the module to grow to the size that it has. Austronesier, a specialist in Austronesian languages, commented that of all the languages in that family he has studied, none has proven phonologically more complicated than Marshallese. This effort has had to combine both multiple sources of linguistic data and no small amount of programming expertise into a working algorithm to convert the language's phonemic model to its phonetic output, which for this language is far from a trivial task. And that's just for one model of phonetic reflexes. If it comes to the point where we have to cover common variant reflexes (like /wetˠemʲtʲetʲ/ to [wotˠemʲ(e)zʲetʲ] for the common reflex and spelling otemjej instead of [wɤtˠɤmʲ(e)zʲetʲ] for the same word's primary reflex and dictionary spelling wōtōmjej), then those words have to run the entire gauntlet of the toPhoneticRemainder function for additional iterations with conditionally tweaked reflex algorithms, which since it's our most expensive function can greatly balloon overall module execution time, because one phonetic change ripples into other changes (with sandhi considerations) and they all have to be taken into consideration. So please...be patient with this technical effort. - Gilgamesh (talk) 08:23, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Gilgamesh~enwiki: I think that the local variables for various functions in global libraries don't noticeably improve performance, so they could be dispensed with. I previewed the table in wikt:Module:mh-pronunc/documentation with two different versions of the module, with and without the local variables in question, and there wasn't a significant difference in Lua time usage in the parser profiling data. The time varied a bit, but there was not the significant difference that there was for some of the other changes you made, like replacing IPA with X-SAMPA-like ASCII code and using string rather than mw.ustring functions. Apparently the two or three table lookups required to use the global variables don't take that long. However, I second the request for patience. — Eru·tuon 09:17, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Erutuon: That's good to know. Thank you. - Gilgamesh (talk) 09:56, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

I've uncached the library functions in line with Erutuon's performance analysis, and I've also expanded the comments at the top of the script to clarify that technical queries and contributions need to be directed at Wiktionary, and that the version at Wikipedia is a mirror. If I knew it were feasible, I would instead maintain one copy of this module at Wikimedia Commons, but then the module's primary debug table is over at Wiktionary as it collects existing Wiktionary entries that use the module. Can Lua modules be hosted primarily at Commons? And how practical would it be to divide debug efforts between multiple wikis? - Gilgamesh (talk) 10:16, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Apparently not... I tested a few Wikipedia Commons module names to see if they load at Wikipedia, but no dice. I think we're just going to have to maintain more than one copy across wikis. - Gilgamesh (talk) 10:49, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@Pppery: With all due respect, you have already three times made a point of editing this module, and Erutuon and I have left comments here with concern to it. I want to avoid conflicts in the future and ensure that, if you have additional concerns, you address them as a contributor to the multi-wiki project (centered at wiktionary:Module:mh-pronunc) rather than as an incidental editor of its mirror on Wikipedia. Again, if I could host the module in just one shared location at Wikimedia Commons, that might be more ideal, but that doesn't seem possible at the moment. So, do you have anything to say? - Gilgamesh (talk) 02:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I hadn't responded earlier because I had felt that the situation had resolved itself with Erutuon's post above while I was asleep. In generalities, most of my edits to templates and modules are content-blind enforcement of standards across, and I have no actual interest in the Marshallese language. This is not the right place for a broader discussion about the merits of shared modules (WT:Lua, perhaps?), so I won't comment any further on that front. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:33, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

All right. Thank you for making your concerns clear. - Gilgamesh (talk) 03:03, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, for the time being, the kind of edit conflict this module received earlier is not sustainable. Especially while its codebase is still in development, in the basic interests of software compatibility, the copies here and at Wiktionary need to remain identical to ensure they can accept the same input and always generate the same output. In the future, if you have concerns about the standards enforcement of this particular module's code, could you please raise them over at Wiktionary? I can't stress this enough. That way, whatever is updated there will be mirrored here, satisfying standards here in the process. - Gilgamesh (talk) 03:30, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I added an edit notice and soft redirected the talk page. That should hopefully be enough to keep things centralized. ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. - Gilgamesh (talk) 08:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Module:For nowiki

Moved to Template talk:For nowiki

– * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:07, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Transcluding Special Pages

@Pppery:

You would know if this is possible, or how to do it, but months ago, an editor (possibly yourself) suggested that I could transclude the special page listing subpages of a certain page with the prefixes stripped, so I wouldn't have to update my user talk archive index manually at User talk:Dmehus/Archives. However, when I try to transclude it with {{:Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Dmehus/&namespace=3&hideredirects=1&stripprefix=1}} or {{Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Dmehus/&namespace=3&hideredirects=1&stripprefix=1}}, I assume that's because it's looking for a template namespace template? Is there a different way to transclude in a special page?

Cheers,
--Doug Mehus T·C 20:27, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

(Special page transclusion formats oddly when indented, so I'm breaching talk page protocol and replying unindented) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:12, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Pppery Ah, thanks! Looks what I was doing wrong was not converting the question mark to a backslash and then not replacing the ampersand with a pipe. Unusual formatting I would not have expected. Do you know, off hand, where that's described, either in the Wikipedia or MediaWiki help manual?

By the way, was it you that suggested using this method previously? --Doug Mehus T·C 21:27, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't know where that idiosyncracy is described, but it was originally me that suggested the special page transclusion. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Pppery, Interesting. It was a good idea! Doug Mehus T·C 21:43, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Unused

While Template:SHORTDESC is currently "unused", it may become used at any point by someone typing {{SHORTDESC|…}} instead of {{SHORTDESC:…}}. The sole purpose of the template is to prevent such uses from marring the articles they occur on. By not 'noincluding' the TFD notice, you are guaranteeing that any transclusions of the template will marr their articles with large, irrelevant warning boxes (unless/until the editor notices and fixes the problem). I don't see the benefit of not using 'noinclude' since, by your logic, using it has no effect, while not using it could have a specific detrimental effect. - dcljr (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

My logic was essentially "since it's unused, there's no justification for deviating from the instructions". (Note that <noinclude> is only mentioned for substituted templates, which {{SHORTDESC}} isn't). As for the rest of your argument, I don't see large warning boxes (which is a misstatement anyway; the actual text transcluded would not be a box) marring an article that uses a template nominated for deletion as the clearly bad thing you are potraying it as. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:38, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

The Instructor's Barnstar

		The Instructor's Barnstar
		This Instructor's Barnstar is awarded to User:Pppery for their stellar work in updating the instructional material at Help: Wikipedia: The Missing Manual. ... .... Moxy 🍁 17:28, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to streamline the welcome template

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to streamline the welcome template. Sdkb (talk) 05:20, 7 March 2020 (UTC) Sdkb (talk) 05:20, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Discussion on refining the tasks listed at the Task Center

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Task_Center#Refining_the_tasks_listed_here. Sdkb (talk) 05:21, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Picture deletion

Hi, Ive noticed a user has added numerous images lifted from Facebook. I've tried looking up the process to tag it, but cant find a good guide. Could you guide me to page with directions? PLease ping in response Alishernavoi (talk) 21:01, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@Alishernavoi: The general process to tag a file that was copied from another website is to add {{db-f9}} to the file page itself (NOT the talk page), as I did in Special:Diff/944403339. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:04, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alishernavoi (talk • contribs) 21:11, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

AfD nomination

Hi Pppery, I've nominated a article for deletion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vidya Prakasananda Giri Swamy, can you please go through it once. - MRRaja001 (talk) 07:15, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're asking me, but I don't see anything wrong with it. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 13:10, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Error in Template:Infobox company resulting from an edit of yours

This edit put <ref></ref> at the end of the template, which is causing errors to show up on pages using the template. I've made an edit request to remove that; could you take a look at that? Guy Harris (talk) 03:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Guy Harris (talk) 03:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Fixed Sorry, must have been an accidental click of a button on the edit toolbar that I didn't notice. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Palinarus

The article was created as a typo and then corrected. There's no reason to leave a rd. If you're not willing to fix it, at least leave it to s.o. else and don't sabotage WP. — kwami (talk) 22:47, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Insisting that pages only be speedily deleted when they meet Wikipedia's strict criteria for speedy deletion is not "sabotage". * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:49, 27 March 2020 (UTC)