User talk:Ogress/Archive 0

Salam

I dont know if I should converse in Persian or not.

I'm here to ask you for your help, since I know you know more than I do, about a problem I'm having on the Ahvaz talk page:

User "Zora", has been constantly trying to attach the origins of Ahvaz to Arabs (in support of the recent unrests of Arab separatists in Khuzestan in the news).

She claims Ahvaz is an Arab name, and claims that Elamites have no connections to the Persians, hence invalidating any claims of Iranian-ness of the Khuzestan province, from a historical perspective. She says there are no etymological connections between today's Iran and the pre-Arab one.

She is basically trying to re-write the page.

Az komak e shomaa dar oonjaa nahaayat e sepaas ro daaram.--Zereshk 04:09, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

INFO ON ELAM

The Persians, Medes and later the Kurds are from the Aryan Race that Originated in Afghanistan. Elam existed before the Persians and the Medes crossed into the Iranian Plateau. Assurbanipal of Assyria destroyed Elam in 640 BCE. He poured salt on the fields of Susa so nothing would grow. the Elamite kingdom died. Cyrus the Great of Persia did not reign until 559 BCE, long after the Elamites. Persia absorbed Media, Assyria, Babylonia and the Iranian Plateau. --Zaidi 02:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Khuzestan and Ahvaz

If you have time and are so inclined to get involved, I would like to request your continued input in the discussion pages of the Khuzestan and Ahvaz articles, for the same reasons as Zereshk has outlined above. Zora has persisted and has once again declared her intention to rewrite the articles to fit her pan-Arabist agenda (drawn from propaganda websites naturally). Thank you. SouthernComfort 21:56, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Dabarim kana'nim

I wasn't referring to that as speculation (although, if one were to be pedantic, Augustine actually says they call themselves rather than their language Chanani, doesn't he?); I just moved it from the text to the infobox, and didn't think it should be in two places. And incidentally, thanks for your improvements to the article! I love it when an article I've been feeling guilty about not expanding gets expanded by someone else. - Mustafaa 04:04, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

3?

Hi, I was looking at Uzza and become confused; I found there the same question I was about to ask, without clarification: Talk:Uzza#3?. Can you explain this? Cheers, Hv 20:53, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Sahaba

In the text of the article Sahaba, you substituted for the letter "s" in "sahaba" a character which doesn't display properly on my screen; it just looks like a square. (See here.) What is that character supposed to be? Is it in Unicode? --Metropolitan90 02:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is unicode: it is an s with a dot underneath (the "emphatic s") and I found it at MediaWiki talk: Edit Tools - Symbol Suggestions. em zilch 17:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration

You've been making some interesting transliteration changes. For instance you made Shafi'i into Šāfiˤǐ which is a transliteration I have never seen before. Most academic articles I ahve read use something close to Shafi'i. I know linguistically that's correct... but we must refer to it how they would encyclopedically. You've also made many drastic changes without edit summaries or explanation. I don't want to discourage good work but I do want to encourage communication... gren グレン ^? 05:45, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

For instance, on this diff why the semi-colon after Turkish (unlinking language) and Azeri? The Azerbaijani language? You also added "Constantly being prosecuted and massacred by the Ottomans on account that they followed Shi'a Islam, the Kızılbaş fled to Iran." which seems like a very strong statement to make. Constantly persecuted? Can you explain this all some. You've been making a lot of substantive changes and they may all be for the better... but it's a good idea to be wary of such changes. gren グレン ^? 05:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

For Tabriz you changed it to Tæbriz which I have rarely seen used. Täbriz is much moreso used but still we must place some importance on common English renderings. What do you use to decide these renderings? gren グレン ^? 06:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, thanks for this edit which makes clear to me what you were trying to do. I completely agree with you on transliteration (I may have thought some of the content was original when it wasn't). I hope you realize I greatly appreciate your fixing things up but I think every editor needs to be on the same page. I was wary of using 'æ' and 'Š'. It gets complex because for easy the Muslim holy book is transliterated "Qur'an" most often here... although there should be a macron on the A and a superscript c looking character instead of the apostrophe. I don't know if we are going to impose that scholarly standard or not. I am all for macrons and I base my transliteration on the type used in Fazlur Rahman books which uses macrons, the dots under H, S, T, etc. , and the supercript C and backwards C (is that representing ayn?). Sorry for not being able to give proper names for these things. The C is usually just made an apostrophe for the sake of easy I suppose. What do you think we should do? (I've never seen the sh like that in tranliteration... only in the original Turkish). We have some basic stuff here on Arabic names. Nothing about standardizing transliteration that I know of. Think we should try to get that started? Also, how do we judge what is common? Qur'an is common in English... not Qurʾān (presuming I got that right)... so which wins out? Scholarly or common? It's hard... I know for many European cities the diacritics have been removed from the titles in preference for more Anglicized spellings. gren グレン ^? 22:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the 'æ may work for some but Ayatollah is pretty firmly in English spelled just like that. I'm really not the right person to ask. I've also seen Fatima (or Fātima) a lot more than Fatema. I also have no idea with Farsi spellings... I'm not sure who we should talk to about this... there should be some degree of standardization... I completely agree... but, I'm not exactly sure how it should be done. I just know that one of the main goals is recognizable forms... adding macrons doesn't make a word less recognizable and help pronunciation. However, changing characters completely from what is normal can. I'm not sure whom we should ask about this. Try User:Zora... she's read some academic texts and should have something to say about common spellings. Do you use any specific romanization format? (like Pinyin would be for Chinese... is there such a thing for Arabic/Farsi/Urdu?). If so what is the romanization standard you're using? I know I'm just used to seeing diacritics on standard Latin characters. I'm only speaking from what I've seen and what I think most people will be able to recognize. But, we really do need to create some type of standard. (Which books use the spellings you're talking about too?) gren グレン 07:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Your page says you're a linguist and your transliterations reflect that well (it seems to me). The thing is... I'm not sure people will be able to recognize it all... I mean, we could write them out in IPA... that'd probably be the best in some ways... but, probably not too accepted. gren グレン 07:29, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Kizilbash

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). --Khoikhoi 23:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you think "is correct", what matters is what the most common name is. Also, what's with the æ's and Ħ's? This isn't Old English Wikipedia... --Khoikhoi 05:21, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but how common is this method? I've never seen it used on Wikipedia. --Khoikhoi

Hmmm. I just doubt that your method will be used by most people. --Khoikhoi 00:21, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Arabic phonetic spelling in Alaouite Dynasty

Hi Emily, no offense intended but I have noticed that you have substituted common name spelling in the Alaouite Dynasty for instance, with what I understand is a phonetic spelling, do you think this is really judicious ? while this may appeal to academic circles, Wikipedia's intended audience is rather the general population ! this might bring some confusion, I am not talking about search engine failing to find those spelling !--Khalid hassani 13:38, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Qadi

Is there any specific reason why you insist on phonetic spelling of Arabic terms in Qadi? Based on Talk:Ulema, I thought there was already a consensus on that matter. Pecher ^Talk 20:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

April 2006

Thank you for experimenting with the page Plato on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Scott Grayban 21:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

• Your edit there can't be verified. Please site your sources before you edit Plato again. --Scott Grayban 21:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Simurgh

Doroud Nahid jan and thanks for copy editing Simurgh. Best wishes. Amir85 19:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Could you add more edit summaries? with saved fields in the box it won't be too much effort pasting in "change diacritics" or something... but, it could be useful on edits where it's not as clear. Just to differentiate between copyediting and content change or removal would be useful. Thanks. gren グレン 09:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Tafresh

Why have you changed all that spellings?! a quick google search [1] shows no other page on internet with that spelling. Please do not change it back. Thanks, -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 11:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Farsi transliteration

Hi can you tell me what transliteration system you are using? For example in Ayatollah. Thanks! Cam 17:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm using the loosely phonetic transliteration scheme from all of the Farsi courses and books I've used (c.f. Thackston's An Introduction to Persian and Stilo, Talattos & Clinton's Modern Persian). The only other "system" I've encountered involves English-based "phonetics".

Karbala

I'm trusting that you're right and Chaldean is wrong on the etymology. You want me to back you up with reverts? I've generally stayed out of that article, but I'd like to keep it accurate. Zora 05:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

FLCL

As a userbox fan of FLCL, would you be willing to vote for its nomination at Wikipedia's Article Improvement Drive? If elected, it will be the subject of a week-long overhaul, in an attempt to pass in to Featured Article status! Thanks, Litefantastic 16:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Punic

Hi Emily

Perhaps you can help me a bit with a series of articles on Punic Carthage. I'm involved in the milhist project and so my focus is on the Punic Wars and Punic military forces(Carthage had a low level of power centralisation and was more an agglomeration of powerful dynasties. Carthage's nobility could and did have private armies operating on their own. So this was the best name I could think of.) Perhaps you could help me with a bit of background information on the subject. For example the tin supply(the Atlantic route seems to have lost importance with the advent of Celts in Gaul, Hannibal possibly tried/established a traderoute along the Garonne River and Auronne River, leaving only Massilia's Rhone route not under Carthage's control) would be interesting for the Second Punic War. For the First Punic War and Mercenary War the rural economy of Northern Africa would be of interest and perhaps some info on Canaanite tax system, etc. At the moment I have read some books and continue reading some and it clearly shows that more non-milhist background could really help to better understand these subjects. For example I try to find out more about legal forms such as the Berkit which was possibly Hannibal's treaty with Macedon and Hasdrubal the Fair's with Rome. It would have discontinued with the end of the respective strategus office, unless ratified by a supreme state authority(This way Polybius version about the Roman envoys travelling back and forth between Iberia and Carthage would make sense and there is a dispute of historians about this, but I feel not safe enough to throw it into the article without more background checks. The Punic Wars and Carthage's forces seem to attract a special clientel of editors who almost rape the sources to push a POV but they don't dare to touch well sourced material.)

Yes, I know that' lots of detail, so simply if you have any idea how to help me highlight the background of these things or improve information on the Punic culture I would be very grateful. Wandalstouring 15:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

A welcomed user

Hi. I was just wondering why you paced a welcome template on User:Jeeny. The user isn't a new user, and is in fact, a user who has been indefinitely blocked. - Rjd0060 (talk) 23:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:Aqidah

Hey there! I noticed you've been making good contributions to some Islam related articles. I also noticed your comment regarding the aqidah article regarding the Ismaili movement. Amongst the majority of Muslim scholars, the Ismailis have always been regarded as being a separate religion from Islam - this is actually one of the few things both Sunnis and Shias seem to agree on. I believe though that by the standards of Wikipedia they are generally included in discissions on Muslims. Hope that helps! MezzoMezzo (talk) 14:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism by 63.216.113.124

This is the only warning you will receive for your disruptive edits.
The next time you delete or blank page contents or templates from Wikipedia, as you did to Druze, you will be blocked from editing.

If you are going to threaten me, you'd better sign in first, IP Address. em zilch (talk) 04:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, for a wrong edit on your talk page

well the IP address 63.216.113.124 is getting on my nerves.So while looking at "its" contributions I found out that "it" dropped you a silly vandalism warning, so after looking at his note I wrongfully pasted the vandalism warning addressed to "it" on your talk page but undid it later.

Anyway I would like to take the chance to thank you for your hard work and contributions. And I hope that malicious users like this IP address would get a hobby soon.My best regards for you and all the serious editors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiram111 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Your edit to Allah

Hi, I have left a comment for you here [2]. I am not online that much so the discussion may take some time.

Cheers,

--Be happy!! (talk) 08:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Curious

Hi Emilyzilch, I noticed this edit to your user page from an IP. Out of curiosity, is that you, or a vandal? I couldn't tell very easily, hence my question. Thanks. Acalamari 22:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. If you've been given a false warning, you may remove it from your talk page. Editors are allowed to remove comments from their talk page if they wish. It's not vandalism to remove messages from your own talk page. Acalamari 23:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Allat & Al Lat

I saw the usage of Allat in a published source with my own eyes for the first time. It is in one of the quotes here [3]. Cheers, --Be happy!! (talk) 03:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Reindeer hunting in Greenland

Thanks for the compliment. I'm pleased you enjoy the article. If you feel it needs improvement, please contribute. -- Fyslee / talk 06:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Muslim Assyrians

Hey i put my reason up for my views, im 99 percent sure there is no muslim assyrians, the ones that got converted during the invasion of arabia into mesopotamia have no assyrian blood they are arabs and dont consider them selfs assyrian, there is no assyrian muslim group that has its own flag,not enough reliable sources to prove that there is such thing as muslim assyrians —Preceding unsigned comment added by 55yy55hh (talk • contribs) 17:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I repeat my comment: DO NOT USE THE WIKIPEDIA PAGE AS A TALK PAGE. It is totally inappropriate to blank the entire page and replace it with your Talking points. Those are for the Talk page, never ever ever for the page itself. em zilch (talk) 05:21, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

A little discussion

Hey there, my sister in humanity.

When I was active I used to do tons of work on heretical groups, and defending them from the mainstream, which is kind of odd since I'm jaw-droppingly orthodox Twelver. I pretty much wrote the Ismaili article, as well as organized the articles on that branch. Anyway, I see you are doing the same. Just some pointers:

• I know some of the inside stuff in the Druze faith (where, in their holy books they actually do denounce the idea of them being Muslim), but since that's not mainstream it doesn't count. Basically, according to the sources we need to use on Wikipedia, some Druze say they are Muslims, some don't, some Western sources say they are Muslim, some don't. We need to use those sources. Instead of insisting they are either Muslim or non-Muslim, mention the controversy.
• The term, Ithna'Ashari, or Twelver, doesn't refer to groups that believe in just the Twelve Imams, but rather, groups that believe in that and follow Jafari fiqh. It's an important distinction.
• The beliefs of the Nizari branch of the Ismaili will make any orthodox Muslim, Sunni or Shi'a, cringe. We Twelver have esoteric beliefs (which are closely aligned with what you'll find within the Sunni strains of Sufism), but their descension into panentheism and divinity of the Imam is a little much. However, there is not much that is heretical about the Mustaali, so recall that you can't use the term Ismaili as an umbrella term, like unfortunately we have fatwas that do. So, handle this like you handle the Druze situation. Basically, almost all Nizari and Mustaali say they are Muslims, while there is a contention mainly with the Nizari and Druze that they aren't. Don't try to prove on Wikipedia they are or they aren't, it's a long running debate for the lack of better words.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask sister. And on a personal note, commenting on your userboxes, my two best friends are 'LBGT' themselves. --Enzuru 03:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and Cowboy Bebop rocks. --Enzuru 03:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Buyids

Hi. I just have reverted. In my opinion it is enough to reference onto "Dailam" for further information. This is what the experts at Encyclopaedia Iranica also do. is it ok for you? NPOVfan (talk) 16:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: GreenEcho

Yes, I've had similar issues with the editor on other articles. I filed an incident report on the Administrators' noticeboard, but apparently they were all too busy at the time to go through my diffs and reply. I'll try to get involved on this page and help resolve the disputes. ← George ^[talk] 23:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the delay in responding. Your best course of action is to either file anther post at WP:ANI, seek out mediation in your dispute, or seek out an admin who might be willing to help and more knowledgeable about what to do. I've had similar issues, but nothing has proved fruitful yet. Good luck! ← George ^[talk] 11:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

There's no need for another ANI report. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 12:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Grammar @ Sonja Elen Kisa

Hello, you've refered to my grammar as "awkward" regarding the following text: "Sonja Elen Kisa is a male-to-female transsexual. After a sex-change surgery Christian Richard Kisa changed the name to Sonja Elen Kisa." (I've added this whole paragraph). Would you please explain what's wrong with grammar of this text? I'm really interested, since it would probably mean that my English needs even more improvement. Netrat (talk) 21:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

My initial impulse was to write "her name" or "his name", but I chose to avoid gender indication, since:

a) A lot of people do not agree that transwomen are women and continue to refer to them as "he". And from genetics point of view, this IS correct, as transwomen still have XY chromosomes. Like, "castration won't change your XY to XX" or "castration won't make you a woman". The homophobic nature of this POV is out of the subject of this discussion. So, explicit gender indication would only provoke edit wars.

b) From logical point of view onto linguistics, Christian (male) cannot change "her" name.

c) It is sometimes hard to tell French male names from French female names, and for Canadians it is not uncommon to have French names.

And judging from my comments here, what can you say of my command of English (I supose you are native speaker)? Netrat (talk) 22:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

User:GreenEcho

I'm not sure what can be done, but I'm assuming the 3-minute window will be ignored due to his consistent (and recent) history of revert-warring. I've linked to one of his 3RR warnings. I'm not an admin, so you'll have to wait until one reviews your request. I'm expecting a block, though.--KojiDude ^(C) 22:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Deobandi

I've noticed your defense of that article against the recent POV it's been slapped with by some anons. You're doing a good job, sometimes it's good to hear that from fellow editors. :) MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:32, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:

What are you talking about? En Ne talk 02:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't notice your edits to these articles. The depiction of the Imams is being discussed. Next time, be more civil or I will report you. En Ne talk 02:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

This is like flipping through the radio station and accidentally stumbling upon the oldies. It's both creepy and nostalgic simultaneously. --Enzuru 07:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Imam images

Left a note on his talk page. Khoikhoi 03:14, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

ANI

Hello, Ogress. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The discussion is about the topic of you. Thank you. --lifebaka (talk - contribs) 04:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)