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so what is a reasonable 3rd party then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia_difficilis - AVH shows into NT, while the article says Kimberley... - who's the final say on the variants then? JarrahTree 01:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

ta - thanks for that, if it was that simple, I should have done - sorry to have bothered.. JarrahTree 02:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

There is also a wide range of utilisation of the templates (one of the long term biota issues methinks) where some of the florabase/ and others are used as refs, or ext links, or whatever, and there is no use of worldwide wattle - any thoughts on the wattle database? JarrahTree 02:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

In the midst of replying and I got the above. Nonetheless this is what I was trying to say:

@JarrahTree: As is so often the case, articles about WA species often fail to reflect the fact that a plant occurs in another state. (Florabase does not list other states, but Flora of Australia online says that the distribution includes NT & QLD - check the taxonbar always) and it is always worth looking at the distribution of the AVH data (painstakingly collected by professional botanists on AVH), that one notices that whole states have been left out of the description of the distribution. It is part of why I think maps are so important. Good to see you noticing. I have now modified the article and the talk page to reflect FAO2. (Yesterday, I finally managed to finish putting up all the 972 Acacia distribution maps I created so long ago on 2018-12-08.) Currently @Tagishsimon: and I are using the SPARQL query to attach Acacia maps to articles without them. MargaretRDonald (talk) 02:52, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: Another example is Melaleuca_lanceolata, a truly remarkable distribution. Florabase shows it extending to the SA border but mentions no other state, while PlantNet notes that it is native to WA, SA, QLD, and VIC, in addition to NSW. Again, Lawrencia_squamata is found in many states, and the taxonbar shows them all (with the exception of QLD which has no eflora), and NSW mentions them all, but Florabase mentions no other state, merely saying "native to Western Australia". MargaretRDonald (talk) 04:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Distribution Corymbia terminalis

Hello Margaret,

I greatly value the distribution maps that you add to plant articles. Unfortunately, in the case of C. terminalis, the map does not agree with the text of the article. It's tricky - authorities do not agree about the circumscription of this species. The APC lists C. terminalis as occurring in "NT, SA, Qld". (Since they now list C. tumescens as a synonym, it should also include NSW. I've advised them.) As currently described, C. terminalis does not occur in W.A. The APC now accepts C. opaca (occurring in W.A., S.A. and N.T.) as a distinct species. Perhaps the map in the ALA relies on the older circumscription, although also listing C. opaca. Gderrin (talk) 00:15, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Geoff @Gderrin:. I will correct the map to delete the WA occurrences. It is all part of the value of the maps: that they alert us to errors in the source data, and we in our turn can let the authors of the source know. MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
@Gderrin: Not really possible to sensibly remove the WA occurrences, since they do not form a disjunct population. So there are two choices: to remove the map or to comment on it. My preference is for a commentary (as you have done). Note that the map also shows NSW occurrences. (I believe that, unlike GBIF which appears to apply global name changes to their downloads, the data in AVH seem to be almost the original data although the field "ScientificName" generally shows the more recent - hopefully current version of the name. So I am not quite sure how current circumscriptions get applied, but I don't think it is a global process.... (PS.The download was made on 21 November, 2018 DOI if that is relevant to the name change?) MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I agree with that. Must be difficult for the ALA/AVH. I presume many older records of C. terminalis (E. terminalis) would be of trees now known as C. opaca. So how to separate those old records into two species? Might be easy in W.A. - just assume C.opaca, but not in the other states. I suspect this might be a fairly common problem. Gderrin (talk) 22:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Gderrin:. Looking at the occurrence records shown in the map (specimens identified by many different botanists) as C. terminalis, it would seem that C. opaca is also found in NT and/or C. terminalis is also found in WA. (Plants do not respect human declared borders.) There is no way that it would be appropriate to declare the plants west of the border as C. opaca and those east as C. terminalis. (I probably should take a look at the data in terms of subspecies/varieties.) MargaretRDonald (talk) 00:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Precisely! That's what I meant. Gderrin (talk) 00:44, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Australian biota project

Has got to a new stage of its progress in this confusing and chaotic world... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Australian_biota_articles = 0. Please help by when creating new biota articles for australia, to make sure the unassessed page stays the way it is adequately tagged, or please ask for help in doing so... More on the next stages of the Australian biota project soon... and thanks for whatever you have done for the project in any way since 2006 - JarrahTree 05:42, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: Hi Tom. Am I doing something wrong? I had thought you wanted me to assess any articles I wrote and to make sure I assigned them to Australian/New Zealand or whatever, biota. And that is what I have been doing??? I thought this was what you wanted me to do.... MargaretRDonald (talk) 07:13, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Whoa - youre doing great! I simply have sent this as a generic message out to anyone i think i know who has contributed at all in the last 10 years + (some probably havent the slightest interest now, but had contributed earlier) as it is all going to another stage now, the extra passes all the biota articles for a range of checks - so its a generic message to almost 10 people who have been seen to edit biota material... the extra pass/checks will include the amount of dead links for many stubs, and lack of detail about occurrence... but I will send that out as a questionnaire/newsletter whatever. Hope that explains things, dont panic, youve been doing great! thanks for all the work on the maps - they lift the whole thing, specially on shorter stubs - they are inspiring... JarrahTree 08:39, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
@JarrahTree: Hi Tom. (Thanks.. Late at night... mildly paranoid, particularly since I had been working on maps) Good to see how much in control of the situation you are. MargaretRDonald (talk) 17:11, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Account status

Hi Margaret, I have given you event coordinator status which will allow you to confirm new accounts for the edit-a-thon on the weekend. --Canley (talk) 05:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

After reviewing your request for the "eventcoordinator" permission, I have enabled the flag on your account. Keep in mind these things:

  • The event coordinator right removes the limit on the maximum number of new accounts that can be created in a 24-hour period.
  • The event coordinator right allows you to temporarily add the "confirmed" permission to newly created accounts. You should not grant this for more than 10 days.
  • The event coordinator right is not a status symbol. If it remains unused, it is likely to be removed. Abuse of the event coordinator right will result in its removal by an administrator.
  • Please note, if you were previously a member of the "account creator" group, your flag may have been converted to this new group.

If you no longer require the right, let me know, or ask any other administrator. Drop a note on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of the event coordinator right. Happy editing! Canley (talk) 05:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC) Thanks, @Canley:. I hope I have the opportunity to use it. Should be fun. MargaretRDonald (talk) 06:50, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

thank you for your help yesterday Margaret

Hi Margaret - lovely to meet you and thank you for all your advice. I will look into the names you left on my page when I can. Please be patient as I am a slow contributor. I have created one article so far and I am working on another one that I started yesterday. That will keep me busy for at least a week. Talk soon, Eve-Ellicott (talk) 03:26, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

No worries @Eve-Ellicott: (And while you are at it , it would be nice if you put up something on your user page, so it feels like I really am talking to someone - in blue). MargaretRDonald (talk) 05:46, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Honestly Margaret - I am so new to Wiki that I wasn't aware of all this talking on a user page. So I'll put something up on my user page this week - Cheers Eve-Ellicott (talk) 09:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

You are doing brilliantly, @Eve-Ellicott:. (And we were all new once...) MargaretRDonald (talk) 21:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

trying to activate a central point for discussions about biota

please put it in your watch, so we can have a central discussion point - thanks...thanks for your clearing the draft items JarrahTree 10:36, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Category:Taxa named by Charles Austin Gardner requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:07, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much @UnitedStatesian:. I couldn't do this myself. MargaretRDonald (talk) 02:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

April 2020 at Women in Red

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problem

beetles of australia have stubs that have category 'beetles of australia' but in the article they say only in micronesia or papua new guinea - any thoughts ? just idle thoughts... JarrahTree 09:54, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Someone has used the category for some unreferenced reason. I would look for the latest scientific publications on that genus or species and see if they shed any light. I would also check ALA occurrence data. These little things can cross bodies of water and be undetected.So I think one should work on a case by case basis and be conservative. (It might also be sensible to ping the person who put it into the category, and to ask for resolution on the talk page, before removing the category from the article.) Cheers, MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you

Excellence in support
Thank you for all your support and contributions, particularly during the last week. I very much appreciate it. Oronsay (talk) 19:42, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
What a beautiful thankyou, made specially for me.Thanks, @Oronsay: MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:26, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Well deserved and my pleasure. It took a bit of tracking down to find the waratah and the Wikidata item for Telopea speciosissima now includes its common names! Oronsay (talk) 20:32, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Isn't it nice how little fiddles for some other purpose produce incremental improvements. Thanks for the wikidata change. @Oronsay: MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello

You know, I’m not a complete monster you know. I’ve written about 10 articles for the WiR project over a few months. Just so you know. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 10:03, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Women in Red

Hi there, MargaretRDonald, and welcome to Women in Red. I see you've been following our activities and have contributed a number of biographies of artists and botanists. We look forward to many more. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 10:28, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Thanks very much for the offer of help. MargaretRDonald (talk) 16:09, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Issue 38, January – April 2020

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Leucopogon edits

Hello Margaret,

Thank you for your work, especially on Leucopogon species. I've noticed a couple of trivial problems on some though. Although I don't agree with the way you use the APNI as an authority for a name, (with a red tick) I also don't see any great problem with it. The difficulty comes when the same reference (eg.[1]) is used as an authority for synonyms. The APNI does not list any synonyms, only synonyms according to particular authors. For example, Rodway listed Leucopogon stuartii as a synonym, and de Salas and Baker list Pentachondra mucronata, Leucopogon stuartii and Styphelia mucronata as synonyms of Leucopogon fraseri.[2] The APNI ref. noted above and on the Leucopogon fraseri article, do not list any synonyms - only "nomenclatural links". On the other hand, the APC lists eight synonyms.[3]

Leucopogon gracillimus also has an important synonym (Styphelia gracillima), because it was named by F.Muell.[4]

The APC accepts three synonyms of Leucopogon pendulus[5] including Styphelia pendula (R.Br.) Spreng. (It's apparent that some of the earlier authors did not agree as to whether or not Styphelia was a separate genus from Leucopogon!)

Using the APC as the reference for the accepted name and for the synonyms obviates the difficulty.

I want to emphasise trivial. Leucopogon is one of my favourite genera and it is fantastic to have you reducing the huge number of red links to the species. Thank you again. Gderrin (talk) 11:03, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Leucopogon fraseri". Australian Plant Name Index, IBIS database. Centre for Plant Biodiversity Research, Australian Government.
  2. ^ "Leucopogon fraseri A.Cunn". APNI. Retrieved 3 May 2020.
  3. ^ "Leucopogon fraseri". Australian Plant Census. Retrieved 3 May 2020.
  4. ^ "Leucopogon gracillimus". Australian Plant Census. Retrieved 3 May 2020.
  5. ^ "Leucopogon gracillimus". Australian Plant Census. Retrieved 3 May 2020.

Thanks, Geoff. @Gderrin: I was being lazy... I usually use plants of the world online. I will fix my edits (and thanks for noticing) For me it is the great strength of wikipedia that there are so many eyes. Speak again soon. MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC) (I forgot to say: I am working through a set of photographs, but I also did maps for tha lot, so I may continue, after I have finished with the articles for which I have photos.) MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:30, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again for this, Geoff.I see plants of the world online is not only incomplete in its list of synonyms for Leucopogon fraseri, but also incorrect. (That will learn me!). MargaretRDonald (talk) 21:15, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
All three of these now down using APC. (Thanks again, Geoff). MargaretRDonald (talk) 21:36, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Info Boxes.

Hello! How are you? I was looking at the information boxes on your profile bio, and I just wanted to know how you did that. (I want to do that on my page too) *if possible* :) Pezoporus wallicus (talk) 11:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Pezoporus wallicus: Easy peasy. Just look at the source code, and copy whatever you fancy.. from {{userboxtop | toptext = | align = right | bordercolor = #fff; | extra-css = margin: 1em 0 0 0; }} to{{userboxbottom}} and modify to suit you. (Whenever I find something I fancy, I squirrel it away on my page because often it is hard to get back to the page where you found it... Good luck. MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonaldl - thank you! Pezoporus wallicus (talk) 08:26, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Pezoporus wallicus: A pleasure. MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:45, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

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Rhagodia spinescens/Chenopodium spinescens

Hello Margaret,

Earlier this evening, Allthingsnative noticed that Chenopodium spinescens was not listed at the APC except as a synonym, so I moved the article to Rhagodia spinescens without looking at its history. Poor form on my part. Sorry. Didn't notice you wrote the article. Chenopodium spinescens is listed at POWO. Should I move it back? Gderrin (talk) 11:46, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I originally wrote it as Rhagodia spinescens and was (I think, ticked off - the rest of the world conforms to Kew). I think the better thing to do is to leave it as Chenopodium and write about the difference in the taxonomy section.... just one of many many many differences between CHAH and Kew!!! MargaretRDonald (talk) 09:40, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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Great Job!

Taxa Star
Congratulations on your great work categorising Taxa named by Barbara Lynette Rye... and you wrote the article on Cheyniana microphylla, a plant she described and where I found this photo. Oronsay (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Love your photo and what you have done with it! And thanks for noticing. But it wasn't just categorising: the majority of the plants in enwiki that she authored were not linked to her (nor to her co-authors) so there was a huge amount of linking, which is part of why I think this process is so important. MargaretRDonald (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:KMN project page updating

I am a volunteer at the NGA reference library focusing on helping manage the Know My Name project. I would like to start updating the KMN page and redesign it so it's more useful as a reference page to instructions and lists for editors. Some of the changes may be quite large. I wanted to make this proposal on the KMN talk page but there doesn't seem to be a suitable place on the Talk page for KMN to make the proposal so I am sending this suggestion to the main editors who I can see have contributed to the KMN page. I expect that I would flounder a bit in updating the page and may need to get advice from others like Oronsay and Shadow the Librarian who set up the page. Shadow is also my supervisor at the research library. Is it Ok with you if I have a go at editing the KMN page? LPascal (talk) 04:19, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi @LPascal:Anyone is free to edit anything in wikipedia. We set the page up as a work plan to help editors on the day of the editathon (~ 8 March) .If you are planning on making wholesale changes, then an appropriate place to suggest the changes is the talk page. You make the title on the talk page a heading for what you propose and then you put your proposal underneath. I contributed much of the NSW content which is now irrelevant where articles have been created, since a key part was to point to resources for referencing (and various of us fiddled with the layout.) Not sure just quite how you plan to use the page Oronsay and I would both be happy to help you if you are a new editor.MargaretRDonald (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I should have said: Please feel free to remove all now irrelevant material and to shape it as you need. But you should also be aware that it is userul to add all the referencing in wikidata, too. So Oronsay and I acted in tandem,from memory, she did much of the wikidata. MargaretRDonald (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

August 2020 at Women in Red

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Finding my time at UTC

Time now 19:05 MargaretRDonald (talk) 09:02, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

If you want to see the time at UTC, there's a gadget you can enable. Go to your Preferences, then Gadgets and scroll down to Appearance and finally select: "Add a clock to the personal toolbar that displays the current time in UTC and provides a link to purge the current page (documentation)." Click save to update your Preferences. The UTC clock will appear to the right of Log out, top right of the Wikipedia page.
For Wikidata, it's Preferences, then Gadgets, General and select: UTC Live Clock: "Clock after the logout link, which shows the time in UTC. Clicking on clock will result in purging the page."
Hope this is what you were looking for. Oronsay (talk) 19:22, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, @Oronsay: Just needed to write this in order to get the time gap.... MargaretRDonald (talk) 03:15, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

pretty cockie, here cockie

Yup he is right, it has been changed - I have had confirmation that it is a legit updating, strange and weird though it might be JarrahTree 02:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @JarrahTree: MargaretRDonald (talk) 02:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
gawks the bite that can sever human fingers - the buggers dont need more names than they deserve... JarrahTree 02:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

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Love your user page

Margaret, I hope you don't mind me not tagging you in the usual wiki fashion but your page is so "earthy" I just felt like letting that go. I love your page and your appreciation of plants. It's such a beautiful thing. I have herbal gardens and my family and I still eat wildflower salads. I use plants for all kinds of things from simple decorations to "warding off malevolent spirits" as my ancestors did as an honor to them. I do believe, like them, that plants have medicinal uses in holistic and natural remedies for many ailments. I use them frequently in recipe's passed down to me through the years. I just wanted to let you know how I felt after reading your page. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia and thank you for adding your song to all of ours. We have a very amazing and colorful community here on Wikipedia.Tsistunagiska (talk) 17:32, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Queensland Nature Conservation Act 1992

Hello Margaret, Thanks for your edit to Prostanthera mulliganensis. There have been recent changes to the Queensland Nature Conservation Act to bring it into line with the EPBC Act and the IUCN, so that there are new categories (including EX and CR). I have asked for a Wikipedia template to be changed so that "CR" (under the QLDNCA) doesn't show as Invalid status. (Hoping I have asked at the right place. It will probably involve changes in other places.) Gderrin (talk) 00:48, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

@Gderrin: Sorry for my edit. (I should have known that you knew what you were doing.) Thanks for the update. MargaretRDonald (talk) 02:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 40

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Response to Commons question

Sorry, I don't monitor Commons very often and missed your question at commons:Talk:Stylidium dichotomum until now.

I agree. It's a Wikidata and Wikimedia problem rather than a Commons problem, as I understand it. If you look at the Wikidata item Stylidium dichotomum (Q17480350), in the list of "Statements", there is a "Commons gallery" link and a "Commons category" link. Then at the bottom of the Wikidata item, there's an "Other sites" link labelled "commons" which is to the gallery. This seems to be quite usual for Wikidata items. Then, as I understand it, it's the general Wikimedia software that decides which link to show in the left hand bar of the desktop version, and it seems to use the "sites" links. There have been discussions on Wikidata about multiple links to Commons, but I don't remember where they were – none of the problems that I see at Wikidata ever seem to be resolved by the smallish number of editors there. If I have a Wikidata-related question, I find it useful to ask User:Pigsonthewing on the English Wikipedia in the first instance – he's very knowledgeable about this kind of issue. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

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State Forests of Alaska

@MargaretRDonald: I am going to try and knockout the three state forests in Alaska this week. I found some very informational articles from the DNR and other state.gov websites that should give me enough information to, at least, create stubs for each that can be expanded later.Tsistunagiska (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

@Tsistunagiska: I am a great fan of well referenced stubs, and stubs with "Furher reading" which invite others to expand them, so go for it. MargaretRDonald (talk) 18:14, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Mud volcanoes in Azerbaijan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Qobustan.

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July 2021 at Women in Red

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