User talk:Tamzin

I don't like the idea of getting pings over someone putting a box on my page that says I did nothing wrong while vaguely insinuating that I did, so I'm just parking these here instead.

~~{{ds/aware|ap|gg|a-i|blp|mos|tt|ipa}}~~

Update 18:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC): You know what, screw it. Keeping track of which to list is more trouble than it's worth, and I don't need any one-hit immunity. I'm aware of all of them. Even the weird ones like the Shakespeare authorship question or Waldorf education. If anything, I'm more likely to think something is a DS topic when it isn't, than vice versa.

Archives

Oct. 2020–present: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
11, 12, 13

Nov. 2012–Oct. 2020: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Selected WikiLove

Defender of the Wiki Barnstar from Joshua Jonathan

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	Absolutely deserved for uncovering the Swaminarayan-sockfarm. A lot of work is waiting, but you did great! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:14, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

Thank you so much, Joshua Jonathan. It's funny, it started just as this weird feeling based on the RfD !votes... We get weird !vote patterns at RfD all the time, usually when a number of non-regulars wander in and don't understand how the forum actually works. The weird thing, though, was that they did seem to get the basic premise of RfD, but were still !voting for a conclusion that made no sense. But still I didn't have that high an index of suspicion, and also I was rather busy, and was this closed to dropping it. But instead, kind of on a whim, I asked Blablubbs to take a look. I was only suspicious about the four who'd !voted consecutively, and I was frankly surprised when Blablubbs turned up evidence tying not just all four of them, but Apollo too. I had no previous exposure to this topic area, and didn't know any of the players, so I really though I'd just be dealing with a few SPAs, not someone with 2,000 edits and PCR.

I think it was also Blablubbs who first suggested Moksha as part of it, as we looked at other players in the topic area. Then I found the comment from the Swami sock accusing them, and there went the next few hours of my life, digging through a history that grew more and more horrifying as the behavioral similarities mounted. I've really never seen something that elaborate fly under the radar, except reading early (pre-2010) ArbCom cases.

It's a shame we'll likely never know exactly how many people were behind these six accounts. My personal hypothesis is that it was six people who knew each other off-wiki, with one, perhaps Moksha, ghost-writing some talk-page comments for the others. (If true, that would mean they were done in by that one person's micromanagement, which is a funny thought.) But that's just my guess.

So thanks again for the barnstar. :) I kind of hope I never get this particular barnstar again, though, at least not for the same kind of thing. Mass gaslighting is a demoralizing thing to work against. I'm happy to go back to just dealing with vandals and spammers. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 06:14, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar of Diligence from L235

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	Hi Tamzin, I'm Kevin. Thank you for your diligence on the Moksha88 SPI; had it been a less thorough report, it may have been overlooked or neglected, especially after the negative CU results. We're lucky to have had you looking into this. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:15, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

@L235: Thank you—for this barnstar and for your own diligence. I was worried that someone would look at this and see it as too complicated, and as involving blocks that were too likely to cause drama, and just punt on it and leave the whole topic area still in disarray. As someone who's always favored making lots of small improvements over a small number of big ones, it's rare that I get the chance to look at something and say, "Here's a way that I really, noticeably, made the encyclopedia better through one single effort." Which I hope I'll be able to say here, depending on how the POV cleanup goes.

As I said to JJ above, I just hope that I don't run into another case like this for a while—both because I (perhaps naïvely) hope to never see anything so egregious, but also for the sake of my sanity, and the sake of whichever CU is crazy enough to take on that case. :) So again, thanks for all you've done here. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 17:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Civility Barnstar from Sdkb & Writ Keeper

	The Civility Barnstar
	Without getting into the messy question of whether or not the other editor's professed ignorance is plausible, I think it's clear your calm, non-judgmental efforts to explain why their comments were offensive have been helpful and appreciated by all. {{u\|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:25, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely second this. Your essay is excellent, as well. You're doing the (proverbial) Lord's work, and with much more patience than I. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:07, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Further kind words

Thank you both. <3 While I don't think of myself as an incivil person, I'm not sure this is one I ever expected to get.

As someone who both likes to assume good faith and has a low tolerance for bigotry, I always see this kind of thing as a win-win: If the assumption of good faith was correct, then we avert more hurt feelings; and if it doesn't, then people can't plead ignorance the next time. I'm glad that this appears to have been the former. "Lord's work" is a compliment I'll happily (flatteredly) accept, be it meant proverbially or literally. -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 00:11, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see great minds think alike. I wasn't aware of the incident that led to the creation of your essay prior to today, and had only created mine in response to seeing "he/she" a lot around here. I must say you articulate it a lot better than I do, though! Patient Zero^talk 04:11, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to thank you as well for your well written essay. I hope this essay helps inform future editors and, in doing so, reduce the instances of misgendering. Isabelle ^🔔 02:45, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

mishloach manot for you!

File:Dr Pepper can.jpg

Happy purim, Tamzin! I thought I'd try and throw together a mishloach manot basket to give out :) feel free to pass it around or make your own basket, if that's your thing—if not, cheers and chag Purim sameach! in jewish enby siblinghood, theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

תודה רבה, Claudia! A pleasantly synchronistic treat to find immediately after submitting my first foray into your neck of the woods.

Despite my well-known affinity for Queen Esther (Esther 8:6 tattoo pic forthcoming on Commons once I've got the enby and agender colors touched up), I've never done much for Purim. Don't really know why that is, just how it's sorted out. But I'll never say no to something tasty! Chag sameach to you too, friend.

i/j/nb/s -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 03:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Precious

may memories be for a blessing

Thank you for articles such as List of journalists killed during the Russo-Ukrainian War, for your bot and SPI work, for "find me removing things more often than adding them", for paying tribute on your user page in channeled anger, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 2728 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2022 (UTC) [reply]

Discussion

Thank you very much, Gerda. This means a lot to me, especially given the circumstances and given the date (see userpage footnote 2). After years of, as you allude to, mostly working on improving articles by trimming them down, it's been a very eye-opening experience to build a full-length article from the ground up. I'm glad I got to have this experience with a list that's meaningful to me, although the downside of that is being very aware of how quickly this list grows. A small fraction of those killed overall, but as Masaq' Hub says in Look to Windward, "It's always one hundred percent for the individual concerned". -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 02:13, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, this means a lot to me, - see my talk today and 23 March. We have one name in common even, and named victims stand for all the unnamed. - "Stand and sing". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:02, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Oksana Shvets was on my mind when I suggested at Talk:List of journalists killed during the Russo-Ukrainian War that perhaps a List of artists killed during the Russo-Ukrainian War is in order—also to list Artem Datsyshyn, Brent Renaud, Mantas Kvedaravičius, and perhaps Maks Levin. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 20:42, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yes - just working on Maks Levin --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:51, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

An assortment of barnstars from Floquenbeam, zzuuzz, Vami_IV, I dream of horses, and others

Defender of the Wiki Barnstar from Pharos, for defending the wiki from Pharos

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		For reverting my accidental buffalo stampede. Thanks for ameliorating the utter state of confusion.Pharos (talk) 00:07, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reply
@Pharos: Okay, I think that's the last of them reined in, aside from a few buffalo who had already been taken in by loving adopters like Jeremyb. One hopes these buffalo do not feel buffaloed. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 03:06, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Admin's Barnstar from Bagumba

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thanks for being able to make tough blocks, while maintaining the humility to not do so lightly. —Bagumba (talk) 02:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reply
Thanks, Bagumba. `:)` (Incredibly slow response, sorry.) At some point soon I'd like to write up a self-audit of my blocks to make sure I'm staying true to my stated principles in blocking... We'll see. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she\|they\|xe) 00:53, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Technical Barnstar from Hawkeye7

	The Technical Barnstar
	For Help:-show classes. Really great work. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reply
Thank you, Hawkeye7. `:)` -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she\|they\|xe) 17:06, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Civility Barnstar from EducatedRedneck and Special Barnstar from Bradv

		The Civility Barnstar
		For your conduct in the Inverted Zebra ANI thread. I doubt I'd be able to keep my cool nearly as well as you did when personally attacked. Your writing managed to convey being justifiably angry without being aggressive. Major props to you for your conduct there, good Mx; I hope I can be even half as civil if I ever find my own person under attack. I hope it blows over quickly now, so you can get back to editing.

EducatedRedneck (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

	The Special Barnstar
	Thank you for all you do to make Wikipedia a more inclusive, welcoming, and safe community. – bradv 21:02, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Original Barnstar from Mz7 for thankèdness

	The Original Barnstar
	Happy New Year, Tamzin! In 2022, other editors thanked you 1003 times using the thanks tool. This places you in the top 10 most thanked Wikipedians of 2022. Congratulations and, well, thank you for all that you do for Wikipedia. Here's to 2023! Mz7 (talk) 23:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Civility Barnstar from Aoba47, but more importantly the nicest conversation I've ever been in on Wikipedia

		The Civility Barnstar
		Hello again. I wanted to apologize again for my response to the Charlotte York article and my mistakes regarding the page move. You were incredibly kind, especially when the entire situation was my fault, and I wanted to thank you again for that. I am truly happy to see such great and kind communication on here. Thank you. Aoba47 (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Aoba47: Aww, you're so sweet. You know, WP:CIR gets cited in a lot of horrible and mean-spirited contexts, but there's a valuable lesson in there if one takes the time to read it, which is that no one is competent at everything. I'd like to think of myself as a fairly well-rounded editor—2 GAs, lots of projectspace work, some technical work including a bot—but there's still dozens of areas of this project that I have literally no fucking clue how to manage. And it's really only luck that I haven't in recent years had the pleasure of having some admin show up on my talk page and say "Umm, that's not at all how this thing is done. I've unbroken it for you. Please be more careful."^[a] One thing I've never done in 10 years here, for instance, is get an FA. Hell, didn't have a GA till 5 months after my RfA.^[b] You have... holy shit, 45 of those.^[c] If I live a long life and continue focusing on content^[d] maybe I'll hit that number before I die. When I do go for my first FAC, you can bet it'll be with oodles of behind-the-scenes hand-holding from friends who've done it before, to make up for my near-complete cluelessness about that venue. So.
If I can summarize this wall of text, it's
🪞
at both you and CT55555 because like... holy fucking shit this site is toxic sometimes. And it's been so incredibly refreshing to see two experienced users^[e] be so relentlessly civil to each other and to me over a relatively minor, totally good-faith misunderstanding, to the extent you're following up on it weeks later. I love it. If there were an inverse version of WP:STOCKS I would put you both in it, no ifs, ands, or buts.^[f] Thank you for this barnstar, but really it's y'all who deserve it for this truly exemplary conduct. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 21:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ Well, that's the better-case scenario. The worse-case scenario is "Umm, that's not all how this thing is done, and there's no easy way to reverse the damage you did. Have a fun 6 hours unbreaking it manually unless you want a trip to ArbCom!"
^ In fact I recently learned on WP:DISCORD that "How many GAs did the most-supported RfA candidate ever have?" is a decent stumper in Wikipedia trivia.
^ Does something special happen at 47?
^ See the nightmare epiphany. (Doing much better sans gallbladder, fear not.)
^ And I emphasize "experienced" because we're often the worst offenders.
^ And what does it say that there isn't an inverse version? But I digress.

Thanks for adding more rays of much-needed sunshine on this site. Peace. CT55555(talk) 21:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your response and the kind words. I will read through WP:CIR in the near future. I enjoy reading through these kinds of essays, and I agree that no one is great or even competent at every single aspect of Wikipedia because this site is so vast and dense. I think it is good to have a healthy dose of perspective and humility, and I have learned from this experience. I has been a while since I did anything with page moves and the like that I genuinely forgot how to do any of it.

Congrats on the two GAs, and I think it is awesome that you've done technical work as well. I have absolutely zero ideas how to even remotely do anything with bots so I am impressed by that. I am proud of my work in the FAC process and very thankful for all the editors and reviewers who have helped along the way. If I ever do it make it to 47, I will let you know if something special happens, and if you ever decide to pursue a FAC, I would be more than happy to answer any questions or provide any pointers. It can be a very intimidating space, but there are also a lot of wonderful editors over there.

You are right that this site can be toxic at times, particularly from experienced users, and I've definitely reacted poorly in the past. The best I can do is to try and learn from each experience and hopefully be better for the future. I'd be curious on what the reverse of WP:STOCKS would be. I am glad that this experience ended up in a positive place in the end and hopefully, this will not sound super sappy, but it was wonderful to meet and interact with you and CT55555. I hope you are having a wonderful 2023 (knock on wood though as I do not want to jinx anything). Aoba47 (talk) 22:26, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Socratic Barnstar from Schwede66 and BusterD

		The Socratic Barnstar
		Your vote at Leeky's RfA was one of the most reflective contributions I've read in a long time. Thank you! Schwede 66 19:54, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I stopped by to say "What a nice thing to say about a friend!" but I see User:Schwede66 was here first. BusterD (talk) 22:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar of Awesomeness from Diannaa

Earlier comment from Elonka
Thank you for your Guide, I found it very interesting, very thoughtful and reasoned, and I appreciate the time that you put into it. --El on ka 22:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

	Barnstar of Awesomeness
	The thing that prompted me to award you this rare and exclusive barnstar was your work in creating User:Tamzin/ACE2023 guide. But don't think that all the other things you do have gone unnoticed! You are an awesome Wikipedian! Thanks for everything. — Diannaa (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

Thank you, Diannaa. This means a huge amount coming from you. After a year and a half as an admin there's only a few admins left who feel to me more legend than colleague, but getting a barnstar from Diannaa is one of those things that just... oh I don't know how to finish this sentence without sounding too fangirlish but... well, again, thank you.

I'm glad you appreciated the guide, and likewise Elonka above. Although, I must say, I just discovered Teratix' painstakingly researched guide, and it so thoroughly blows mine out of the water that I'm tempted to just redirect mine. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 07:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Selected WikiHate

Warnings from the late great Nosebagbear and whoever whomever whoever most recently edited this page

Hello, I'm 184.152.68.190. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. Thanks. Nosebagbear (talk)

Block me if you must, but you'll never catch my socks!

(They're very cozy slipper-socks with like a stylized dog face on the top and then little fake ears on the side. Very cozy socks. AND YOU'LL NEVER CATCH THEM!) -- Tamzin (she/they) | o toki tawa mi. 13:28, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, people from the future. Confused why your name shows up here? See here. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 05:18, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Toki Pona in the wild? Mute olin!! :D Atomic putty? Rien! Atomic putty? Rien! 16:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Atomic putty? Rien! "Quantity of love"? :P (For "much love", use olin mute, or more properly mi olin mute e ni 'I love this', although ni li pona mute 'This is very good' is probably more idiomatic, since the colloquial English use of "love" to mean "like a lot" doesn't really translate.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:01, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin omg ur so right, sorry I’m rusty. I love finding ppl who speaks Toki Pona outside of the discord server, it’s like a little linguistics easter egg Atomic putty? Rien! 12:30, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin P.P.S. Apologies for my English, German’s actually my first language ^-^ Atomic putty? Rien! 12:32, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Special:Diff/1148616329. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the [[:|article's talk page]], and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges.
Please note that such behaviour is distinctly unacceptable on Wikipedia. However, I realise you are still new to Wikipedia and learning the rules - please feel free to ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE if you are unsure about making an edit. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

f u delete this or im gonna tell the mods on u. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 11:19, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid, @Tamzin, that that statement is in breach of rule 1 of this talkpage listed at the top. If you do not retract the comment, I may need to tell this user about the poor behaviour by yourself. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

tsk, really should have discuss[ed] the matter with the editor at [...] the [[:|article's talk page]] — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 15:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Special talk:Diff/1148616329? Sounds like a good place for settling disputes TheresNoTime ;)

Talk pages for special pages when? /j Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 17:19, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Meta-WikiHate against my mother of all people

Re above: by itself, from whomever is correct, if that's the end of the expression, placing 'whomever' in the objective case, due to its function as the object of the preposition from. But, in the longer expression From who[m]ever edited this page, who[m]ever is not the object of the preposition from; rather, the entire noun phrase who[m]ever edited this page is the object, and that is an independent clause, containing a subject (who[m]ever), a transitive verb (edited ), and an object (the noun phrase, this page). In this independent clause, the subject is in the subjective case (a.k.a., nominative case), thus it must be whoever. The object noun phrase (this page) is in the objective case (invisible, because most nouns don't change; but if it were a pronoun, like they/them, then it would be whoever edited them). Upshot for this expression: it must be from whoever edited this page. See the first example here, for example. Moral of the story: Moms aren't always right. Oh yeah, and one other thing... congrats on your election. But, first things first, right? Mathglot (talk) 08:55, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer "whomsoever." --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate that you dug into the page history to find that I did originally have it right. My lovely mother, whom I will stress is a published author and editor and taught me everything I know about writing, concedes defeat on the matter, Mathglot. However, for questioning the woman whom brought me into the world, you've still earned a place in the WikiHate section, congratulations or not. (Also thank you. :) ) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 21:33, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Outrageous abuse of power by Tamzin

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Tamzin. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Opposition to human rights, and have marked it as unreviewed. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

-- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 02:08, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Outrageous, Tamzin. I demand you resign your patrollership. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 02:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you like being called Tammy?

Is there a personal reason for it? 2607:FEA8:FE10:80D0:19BA:6297:7766:A64 (talk) 02:29, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many brave Tamzins died in the Great Tammy Wars. Some find strength in looking back, but I find it easier to forget. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:37, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Would there be interest in a bot that makes a "watchlist" just for recently-edited pages?

OMG YES! El_C 14:31, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

-- TNT (talk • she/her) 21:12, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Watching my watchlist gets boring at some hours of the night. wizzito | say hello! 02:45, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@El C, TheresNoTime, and Wizzito: Well, currently item 1 on my big-project wiki to-do list is some content work (gasp! I know), and item 2 is the second round of 'zinbot automatic patrol circumstances, which I got consensus for months ago but still haven't run with, but this is item 3. If anyone else would like to take a stab at it (hint, TNT), what I'm thinking of is something like:

{{User:'zinbot/Secondary watchlist
|source_page = <!-- Watch all pages linked from these pages, emulating Special:RecentChangesLinked for them. Separate by newline. --->
|source_user = <!-- Watch all pages edited by these users in provided timeframe. Separate by newline. -->
|user_days_back = <!-- How many days back in a user's contribs to follow. Default: 7. -->
|user_edits_back = <!-- How many edits back in a user's contribs to follow. Default: 200. -->
<!-- Either of `user_days_back` and `user_edits_back` can be set to None, as long as the other has a value -->
|namespace = <!-- Name or number of namespace(s) to watch. Use 0 for mainspace. Separate by commas. Default: All. Prefix with - to mean "everything but" -->
<!-- Days back, edits back, and namespace can be overridden per source page or source user, by appending a # and then `days=`, `edits=`, or `namespace=` to the entry. You can also use a `prefix=` parameter. -->
|always_watch = <!-- Will be watched even if not covered by the above parameters. E.g. Your own talk page, AN/I, etc. ... -->
|never_watch = <!-- Will be ignored even if covered by the above parameters. E.g. your own talk page, AN/I, etc. ... -->
|update_frequency = <!-- A number in minutes, or "auto". At "auto", the bot will update as frequently as possible, with the understanding that after each update you are moved to the back of the queue for updates, and the bot only edits once every 10 seconds. -->
}}

Thus mine might look like

{{User:'zinbot/Secondary watchlist
|source_page = User:Tamzin/spihelper log
               User:Tamzin/XfD log
               User:AnomieBOT/TPERTable <!-- Open TPERs -->
               Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion # namespace=4 prefix=Redirects_for_discussion/ <!-- Only watch active RfD subpages. -->
               User:Mz7/SPI case list <!-- Active SPIs -->
|source_user = Tamzin
               'zin is short for Tamzin
|user_days_back = 2
|user_edits_back = None
|namespace = -Category, File <!-- I don't really edit these namespaces -->
|always_watch = User:Tamzin
|never_watch = Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
|update_frequency = auto
}}

That would render as {{Special:RecentChangesLinked/{{FULLPAGENAME}}/links}}, while a bot would update the /links subpage in accordance with the {{{update_frequency}}} value.

Should be pretty straightforward to set up, when I get around to it. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 03:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"hint, TNT"—thank you but no -- TNT (talk • she/her) 03:36, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, what do I do? You're not my mom/s! El_C 04:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quick question

Hi, Tamzin! I was rummaging through the NPP archives and stumbled onto this discussion. First, my belated THANK YOU!! Second, please see this redirect which showed up in the NPP queue as a result of: 07:39 · Turtle-bienhoa · ←Blanked the page and then reverted 07:39 · Turtle-bienhoa · Undid revision 1097374915 by Turtle-bienhoa (talk). Is there any way we can get the Bot to recognize that type of activity so that it doesn't remove reviewed status? Best ~ Atsme 💬 📧 14:02, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Example male and Example female

Hi Tamzin—hope you are doing well. I was wondering if you would be able to update User:Example male and User:Example female to use Special:GlobalPreferences to set their genders, instead of setting them locally? As an irrelevant aside, as I was writing this note, I realized I would ping both accounts. This made me curious: how many pings are they currently sitting at? Anyways, happy editing! House Blaster^talk 22:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A cookie for you!

For your work on removing BLP non-compliant material from Soa Palalei and Rock Machine Motorcycle Club and calling Wikipedians out for being a bit too quick on the revert button. Cheers! Grumpylawnchair (talk) 01:51, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article suggestion for talkpage watchers!

Hello, talkpage watchers! If anyone's looking for an article to write, here's one that I think is really interesting, easily notable, and maybe has GA potential, but with which I have a minor COI: Edgar Labat, a Black man wrongfully convicted of rape in Louisiana in 1953. At the time he was freed (1966), he was the longest-serving death row inmate in U.S. history. He was the subject of protracted litigation throughout that time and became a cause célèbre, with lots of coverage. This Time article gives an overview. Newspapers.com^TWL has lots more. And there's scholarly coverage. My COI is relatively small (my grandparents advocated for him and he lived with them briefly), enough so that I'd be fine assisting once written, but I shouldn't be the main author on this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 18:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

bcc

I didn't know {{bcc}} existed. I wish there was a list of semi-obscure and occasionally helpful Wikipedia features. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

'zinbot question

Hey Tamzin. I was curious, would it be much effort to modify task 1 of 'zinbot to also mark pages sent to AfD as reviewed? Hey man im josh (talk) 19:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this essay

I believe we all encounter some form of mental illness in our lives, some all encompassing, some apparently trivial. Nothing is trivial, but we can think it is.

I knew all this, but I know it better now I've seen it written down.

I took my own wikibreak a few years ago, and it was for a few years. It coincided with sudden busy-ness in real life, and I think I would not have handled things well had I continued, 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A year late, @Timtrent, thanks for appreciating the essay. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some stroopwafels for you!

Hi! I hope it's not too forward of me to drop by to say that I smile every time I see your [cetacean needed] signature. Nothing really of substance to add, it's just improved my day enough times that I wanted to tell you so. — Moriwen (talk) 23:26, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ambition achieved

User:Tamzin/userboxen/User non-admin someday You finally got there! 😃. JBW (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JBW: Sadly I forgot to ask the 'crats to use the userbox. But, for whatever reason I'm back in the saddle now, so maybe next time.

Some say my tenure will end in arbies.
Some say in 'crats.
From what I've tasted of ol' ANNIE.
I hold with those who favor arbies.
But if I had to de-mop twice,
I think I know enough of burnout
To say that for desysop 'crats
Are also great
And would suffice.

(With apologies to Robert Frost.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 16:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aah, Robert Frost! I read and very much liked his poems back in my youth, but I can scarcely remember anything about them now. The sadness of the passing of time... Sigh... JBW (talk) 17:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sadness of the passing of time ← That's more Proust. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 17:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe so, but I've never read him. JBW (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps...

I want to talk to you,

And if you forget me,

You will protect us.

I want to smile at you,

And if you remember me,

You will understand me.

I want to sing to you,

And if you will sing with me,

Our harmony will light up our lives.

I want to understand you,

And if only Google would help...

Only it fucking won't.

JBW (talk) 17:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A kitten for you!

It was so great to meet you at Wikiconference North America – thank you for allowing me to infiltrate the Cool Kid Inner Circle! Hope to see you again at future conferences/gatherings and around on the wikis :)

Accedie^{talk to me} 22:46, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

reversion

No worries, I was just feeling like it had turned kind of meta and thought we didn't need to include every possible example that could be scraped up. I think you're right about this one. Valereee (talk) 11:41, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Val. Came upon it while working on Canceling (video essay), which I feel like is one of those links I'm gonna turn blue in either a week or a year. Coming off a series of articles that weren't exactly light stuff, including rewriting parts of Self-harm and of course writing This War of Mine: The Board Game, and I stomach all that just fine, but there's something about summarizing a 100-minute video of someone describing collective emotional abuse, throughout the course of which she gets progressively drunker, and which starts with her drinking King Cobra out of the bottle in a bathtub surrounded by trash bags, that got me questioning whether this was what I wanted to write about for my hobby. So yeah, a week or a year. Anyways, I do agree with the overall removals. It's a really tough topic to write about without perpetuating the victimization. I do recommend the aforementioned video essay if you haven't seen it. (Obligatory and very meta disclaimer that I do not agree with every single thing Natalie Wynn has ever had to say.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 17:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on incubating something in that vein about fleshing out "morally" motivated networked harassment and a chronology of the phenomenon as a fuller page, just have been busy. lizthegrey (talk) 06:07, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Judd Hamilton saga

Hi Tamzin, I have been meaning to contact you for months but in amongst my activities here and in life in general, I keep forgetting to get around to this. Now I understand that some action had to be taken against User:2601:601:D02:2120:2D85:C84E:EE00:4AF0 which is who I believe to be Judd Hamilton. But thinking about it, I believe he had no idea of how things work here, and made the legal threat as he may have not realised it's not permitted. I do really believe he was genuinely upset and felt insulted by the remarks of an editor who basically said that he was a "nobody" and that member now I see had been banned not long afterwards. Given Mr. Hamilton's age (81) and the circumstances that caused him to react in the way he did, is it possible to consider unblocking him a month and 2 weeks earlier than his block expiry?
Regards Karl Twist (talk) 11:02, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) he hasn't requested an unblock, what's the point? ltb d l (talk) 11:09, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Karl Twist: Legal threat blocks can be lifted as soon as the threat is retracted. At the same time, don't be misled by the block length: It's only temporary because IPs change over time. If he resumes editing from that IP after the block ends, and does not retract the threat, he will be re-blocked. I appreciate that that may seem unkind to do to an old man who doesn't seem to have any real malice in him. But legal threats are a serious thing, particularly in the U.S., where, due to the way our court system is structured, it's entirely possible to become bankrupt through litigation that never even results in a judgment. When you threaten to sue someone, you threaten to put them through years of stress and to cost them tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. (The WMF may cover the latter, but there's no guarantee, and I don't believe it covers ancillary costs, not to mention the effects of the stress.) So it's no small matter. But if he can retract that threat, I'm very much open to an unblock. (No promises, but definitely not a hard no.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 19:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Tamzin. I doubt if the person that Mr. Hamilton threatened legal action towards would be concerned judging by their behavior. Other people would be yes. I'd probably agree with you there. Anyway, he only has a month or two to go. I have no issue with what you say. So we'll leave it as it is and see how he comes back in the new year. Anyway, I hope you have a nice time during this Christmas season and best wishes for 2024. Cheers Karl Twist (talk) 08:01, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Glancing back at this thread during my annual talkpage cleanup... Hamilton appears to still be active elsewhere on 2601:601::/32 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)) as recently as July on Special:PageHistory/Judd Hamilton and Special:PageHistory/Caroline Munro. That's a massive range, but given it's just two articles he targets, and that he has done so consistently for years, and that an WP:NLT block on an IP should be reüpped if they continue after the tempblock ends, a partial rangeblock seems like a good idea here. @Elli, since you've been getting good at well-targeted long IP blocks, could you consider the following? Please block 2601:601::/32 from pages <Judd Hamilton|Caroline Munro> with expiry 5 years (anon. only, account creation allowed): self-promotion and legal threats; see https://w.wiki/BwFU (length based on activity since 2018). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry; was a bit busy. I have done so now. Elli (talk | contribs) 06:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	I just spent a few hours looking through the articles you list on your userpage, and was very impressed, by how interesting the articles are and by how well researched and written they are. Thanks for your valuable contributions to the encyclopedia, and happy end-of-year-month! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 20:35, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A very belated thanks for this, @Eddie891! Got seven new articles since then! Advisory Neighborhood Commission district 7F08 (my least-viewed article but one of the most interesting), F1NN5TER, Ray cat, When a man argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they are going to have the last word (the longest GA title by words), Terminology of transgender anatomy, Celebrity Number Six, and Death of Richard Swanson. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:56, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on close at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Emoji redirects

Hey, thank you for the greatly detailed and in-depth analysis of the AfC over at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Emoji redirects. Always appreciate when someone goes the extra mile. That was a great summary with good guidance for the future!

Cheers, microbiologyMarcus ^{(petri dish·growths)} 19:40, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Someday you may join the green side!

If you ever find yourself wanting to collaborate with someone on a green side article, I'm your anthropomorphic plant. I'll find a lovely red link or stub with amazing pictures on iNaturalist and maybe even a weird fact and teach you all the "secrets" to understanding the strange language of Botanese. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 06:05, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not trying to invite the wrath of the evil eye, but...

and maybe there's some reason you want all 142 of these conversations here, but if there isn't, maybe do some archiving? They have bots for that, you know. :D Valereee (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Valereee. Your punishment for asking this forbidden question will be getting this whole schpiel in return. Eye (heh) of the beholder as to whether that makes me an agent of the evil eye.

So, when I started to understand my dissociative identity disorder in late 2020, I wound up with a lot of great insights into myself, but also wound up a lot less functional than before. Basically everything I did was on impulse, and it took exceptional energy to plan things out more than a day in advance. In a lot of ways that made life Hell, but that bare-minimum stability meant that I could slowly tug my mental health to where it needed to be, in order for me to be the person my family deserved. And eventually I got to that place, got to create the happy domesticated polycule life I'd dreamt of, but I still was stuck on that 24-hour planning loop.

And so in all that time, about 3 years, responding to messages was the hardest thing. I set a hard rule for myself that any ADMINACCT inquiries got a drop-everything response, because at any slower pace there was no guarantee I'd remember to reply at all. Once something fell off that 24-hour radar, I often forgot about it entirely. Every few months I'd comb through old messages and reply to some, and leave others. But it was always a losing battle.

So, that's the "maybe ... some reason": I've left a lot of messages up because I'd rather respond late than never (and, for ones I've already responded to, or that don't need no response, the same phenomenon's always made it hard to remember to archive/remove). Now, for all my willingness to speak about mental health in the abstract, I generally dislike explaining on-wiki issues with "because mental illness". The reason I'm answering this now is because all of this stopped being true about two weeks ago! And I'm excited about that and wanted to take a moment (at the expense of your reading patience, no doubt) to commemorate it. After three years of figuring out my DID, it turned out that if certain parts of me merged with certain other parts, the result was a combined part with an actual working memory, healthy sleep schedule, and much better disposition. It's pretty awesome! I've spent a lot of the past two weeks doing things like place important phone calls and then get really excited about how I just totally placed that phone call without forgetting for 6 months. On-wiki, I've been working on my "white whale" draft, which I'd wandered away from for the third time in July. (I shan't link. 🪬) And so, this is a fortuitous time for you to remind me about these back messages. I'll try and get to them this week. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 04:42, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, T! Well, first, I'm so happy for you that whatever strategy you've found is working so well that you're feeling a true sense of delight with it! That's great. And second, I get it about needing to keep messages "live" (for want of a better term) in order to prevent yourself from forgetting them. I use my email inbox the same way -- if a message needs responding to but I'm not ready to respond, I remark it as unread. It's not a great solution -- I have messages months old that need responding to. Oops, including an invoice that's probably at least that old, yow. :D At any rate, third, I intended more gentle ribbing than anything else, and apologies for getting into mental health territory with that, it hadn't occurred to me that might be what I was doing. Valereee (talk) 11:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I take no offense, @Valereee. I just enjoyed the chance to give a brief^{[dubious – discuss]} update on where I'm at, since I don't think I've said much on-wiki about that since August. Also thank you for reminding me I need to pay an invoice. (Got to pay for the new solar panels! Very exciting. We'll see if they pay for themselves before '44 repeats itself.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very happy to read this, especially the part about the benefits of your internal M&A. (Who says they're all bad?) You were a great person to chat with when I was regularly in the Discord VC, and I miss those days. Come by WP:WMNYC sometime if you feel up to it! <3 SWinxy (talk) 06:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just assume those with long user/user talk pages are in a contest with @EEng: -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

It's truly sad to see you resign, knowing how much you mean to the admin team. Your work as an admin has a significant impact, but I completely understand and respect your decision. I'm not asking you to reconsider because I respect your choice. I sincerely hope you'll still be around to offer your valuable advice and continue your great work. Thank you so much for everything you've done as an admin. – DreamRimmer (talk) 17:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamzin, I'm not going to try to talk you out of resigning, because you know what's best for yourself, but you've consistently exceeded expectations as an admin and your presence on the admin team will certainly be missed. I'm glad you aren't retiring from the project entirely, I'm sure we can expect many more interesting articles from you in the future. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What the others said. And your frankness in stepping back and evaluating your own behaviour is greatly admired. If and when you are ever ready to work as an admin again, know that you will be well-placed to mentor a new generation of admins and break the vicious cycle. Of course, content work is no mean feat either, and it is integral and central to a complete encyclopedia. Kind regards, Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (^{talk to me!}/_{my edits}) 18:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I echo what the others have said: you've been a net positive to the project, in all respects. Thank you for your service as an admin, and cheers to many more years of building the encyclopedia. :) sawyer * he/they * talk 21:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most of Wikipedia is a cesspit and the worst part is that it drags down people who are here to build an encyclopedia. Something I've been working hard on for the last couple of years is only engaging in activities that help build an encyclopedia and in being as positive as I can (with things like Challenges). — Bilorv (talk) 09:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

<3 You were a good admin, Tamzin. Good on you for continuing on the content side, and all the best, both here and IRL - DFlhb (talk) 12:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're completely right about the toxic culture here, but Wikipedia is so resistant to change that I doubt it will be fixed in the foreseeable future. It can be very discouraging at times, and there have been multiple times where I've also considered stepping back to focus on what really matters. Thank you for all of your work as an admin, and I hope to see you continuing to build an encyclopedia in the future. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 14:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seconding everything said above. You've consistently been one of the few admins willing to speak out and take action when you see problems rather than ignore or perpetuate them. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

+1 — Callitropsis🌲[talk · contribs] 20:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although perhaps a novice editor, I agree that a lot of editors lose sight of what the point actually is. Thanks for your admin work, Tamzin. _Dial^mayo 14:45, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Burn the candle only at one end, probably wise. Luck. Selfstudier (talk) 15:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your service, Tamzin... just noticed your resignation on BN. You have been an excellent admin and editor throughout your wikicareer and I'm sure others will say the same. Prodraxis _(talk) 21:08, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for all of your admin work, Tamzin, and good luck with whatever projects you work on next. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamzin, I only just found out, and I want to let you know how much I appreciate you, and how much I appreciate your work here. Definitely, your own well-being matters far more than mopping up some messes on a website. If you ever feel like talking to me about it, you know where my talk page is. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:09, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Tryptofish. Honestly it's not about my own wellbeing. It's about... I don't know, the only phrase I can think of to describe it is the Toki Pona term nasin pona—nasin meaning 'path' and pona meaning any of '[of] correctness', '[of] goodness', '[of] simplicity', or '[of] peace'. Part of that's about one's own wellbeing, sure. But the greater part is about one's place in the world. At a certain point I realized that I was interacting with the world in a way that didn't match my own sense of self. And then recent events solidified my feeling that this was not a space I wanted to be a part of. (More Toki Pona philosophizing: 'want' and 'need' aren't separate things; instead there's only superseding degrees of wile.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very thoughtful reply. For what it's worth, one fish's opinion is that getting more in touch with one's most appropriate path is very much a part of achieving well-being. But whatever the inner motivation, I understand the dissatisfaction with the culture at this website, and I wish you well. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:32, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the stuff we deal with here isn't that nice, but in my experience you were. I'm certainly glad you're not taking off entirely, and hope I'll still run into you. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd missed this. There has been a lot of loss in the community this year. Heal gently. Glad to see you're still planning to stay around and I look forward to continuing to work with you. Star Mississippi 16:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I'm only seeing this now, Tamzin. Echoing others above, it's sad to lose you (for now) from the admin corps, but I'm glad you're still around in a capacity that works for you, and looking forward to working with you on content going forward! Sdkb ^talk 00:02, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your service, Tamzin. I have only good words to say about your tenure as an admin and have always found you to be a very helpful person. I'm glad to hear you aren't fully retiring, and will certainly see you around! Patient Zero^talk 00:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sad to see you leave the admin corps, but I hope that it allows you to become a more productive Wikipedian and a happier person. I've mostly quit anti-vandalism work for content creation and I feel like I've actually made a difference. Hope to see you around soon! ❤History Theorist❤ 06:12, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, how did my name end up in the Wikihate section? How did Nosebagbear/you get a hold of my name and put it there? I'm really confused. ❤History Theorist❤ 06:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
never mind, I get what the trolling means ;) ❤History Theorist❤ 06:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only just now saw this. Your resignation comes at a time when I most likely came to the same realization as you. Two months ago, it dawned on me that I should have never been talking negatively about other editors behind their backs. I feel like such a better person.. I am genuinely happy for you. Scorpions1325 (talk) 23:14, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
+1 all of this. Thank you for your service as an admin and best of luck in your future endeavors. Queen of Hearts talk
she/they
stalk 15:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Only just now saw this, via admin newsletter. But I couldn't not chime in and thank you for your admin work and continuing content work, and also for trying to steer things in a more friendly direction. DMacks (talk) 12:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for your contributions! Completely understand your reasons for taking a break ( :( ). Hope that you might return to admin work, if you'd like, sometime in the future. Frostly (talk) 19:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
#Content SWinxy (talk) 23:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised to see that you resigned. While we have not seen eye-to-eye on many issues, you were a good administrator and were able to isolate your opinions of what policy should be from your application of the existing rules. That is the most important skill that an administrator can have, because the administrator toolset is for enforcing community consensus and the editor toolset is often for trying to change it. Since I trust your perspective on whether or not you should be using the tools, I won't say you're making a mistake, but if you start another RfA, you can expect my support. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:14, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I somehow just came across this -- it slipped through my radar -- when I was confused by your lack of an admin flag in a page history, figured a script was on the fritz...boy, was I surprised. I'm sorry to see that you have given up the bit but do understand your reasoning and empathize. Thank you for your work as an admin, Tamzin. It might not have felt like it but it was greatly appreciated by myself and others. I hope to still see you around the 'pedia. ♥ --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 05:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your diligent edits throughout the encyclopedia, as well as getting to the bottom of a possible misquote at Jo Clifford. I know you're on a bit of a break at the moment, but just want to let you know your contributions and kind words are still appreciated! GnocchiFan (talk) 08:28, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

draft

Would you have any interest in vetting the History section at User:Valereee/ Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender to remove any stupidity or ignorance on my part? (Any TPS also invited to edit.) Valereee (talk) 13:46, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please Self-Revert

Hello, please self-revert your latest edit to the MfD or I will be bringing this matter to the ANI for violating WP:NPA. Thank you Durchbruchmüller 22:07, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lol fuck off. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamzin, would you like to go to ANI and dance that dance, or shall I just block them? Drmies (talk) 22:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A sock, Doc? Such a shock. Good block. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well that was fun. Nice alliteration. Do you want to go to that MfD and strike out all their comments? Enjoy, Drmies (talk) 22:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I have a previously scheduled trepanation that seems much more pleasant. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm I'm sorry to hear that. What's for dinner? Drmies (talk) 22:28, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Me, if they do it wrong. Got a 100% discount for agreeing to that. But I trust Fat Sal and his whole team at the auto body shop. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Acceptable descriptions of a person

Back in February, you told me that a living person's page needed to be more neutral than I had it.

Would it be appropriate to include a description that a company was criticized for being transphobic, if two sources I have (articles from LGBTQ Nation and The Mary Sue) characterize the organization as that?

Article One: Ex-Levi's president launches anti-trans sports clothing brand XX-XY Athletics

Article Two: Former Levi's Exec and COVID Denier Launches First Transphobic Clothing Line Rhino Ryan (talk) 01:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two responses

Today I got around to publishing two responses to things people have been asking me about.

The first is in response to queries, comments, and well-wishes by, among others, @DreamRimmer, Trainsandotherthings, Wilhelm Tell aDCCXLVI, Sawyer777, Bilorv, DFlhb, Ingenuity, Thebiguglyalien, Callitropsis, Dialmayo, Selfstudier, ~delta, QuicoleJR, Tryptofish, Seraphimblade, Star Mississippi, Sdkb, Patient Zero, HistoryTheorist, Queen of Hearts, DMacks, Frostly, SWinxy, TheSandDoctor, The Night Watch, JBW, Valereee, JPxG, Xeno, and RadioactiveBoulevardier. (If you've had something to say and I missed your name, please take no offense.) I recorded this back in March, in response to many of y'all either asking why I'd resigned, saying you hoped to see me back, or equally saying you completely understood. I never got around to editing it down, but was spurred to do that after a conversation yesterday with Vami_IV (Z''L)'s sister, so, here it is: File:On the backrooms.ogg. Transcript available at c:TimedText:On the backrooms (essay by Tamzin).oga.en.srt for those deaf, hard of hearing, or just not that interested into listening to my voice for 22:52—although I do think it works best as audio.

The second is in response to "Wikipedia's Indian problem: settler colonial erasure of native American knowledge and history on the world’s largest encyclopedia" by Kyle Keeler: User:Tamzin/Public response to the editors of Settler Colonial Studies. (CC Gråbergs Gråa Sång.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We share some of the same. I think everytime people scream Cabal/Unblockables (I'm guilty of the latter) they tend to get partially ignored because their behavior is under a microscope for something. However, there's often a grain of truth. I'm a legacy editor and some of us are wonderful, but some legacy editors have burnt out and it comes across and its part of why AN* is a cesspool. Yes, there are the POV pushers and trolls, but there are also a lot of us (I include myself on both sides of this) hashing old grudges and it's not productive. If I'd been AWOL long enough pre COVID I'd likely never have asked for the mop back. I try not to be part of the problem, but I know I'm not always the solution either. I wish you peace with your decision and hope to still see you around. Star Mississippi 01:59, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's the thing, isn't it, Star. The people who have good introspection are never the ones who need to have it. I can't recall ever having a problem with how you handled anything... But either way, like I said, the problem is rarely the individuals, and much more often the system we've all created. And I don't have a solution for that really, other than to back away and hope someone else fixes it eventually. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 02:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Same. I always felt your actions or lack thereof in a case were backed up by reason and logic. Star Mississippi 02:33, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still thinking, will probably get back to you soon. The Night Watch (talk) 02:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm making a recording for you. I've never been a good speaker and it probably won't be as good as yours, but I'll try. The Night Watch (talk) 17:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

as a newer editor (i've only been consistently active since last august or so) and an autistic person, and as someone who loves people-watching and lurking around trying to understand the dynamics of human social capital, i've found wikipedia to be well... exactly how you describe. i have a bad habit of reading ANI (i've even got it open in a tab as i type this) & trawling through the depths of past arbcom proceedings purely out of fascination; i could point to several threads on ANI right now that are crystal-clear examples of the double standards you point out. i've even found myself falling into the mindset of "do i have enough social capital to bring this up [to ANI, etc], or should i just hope that someone else more 'senior' than i will see it too and do something about it". i really appreciate you putting this into words, and since joining i've found your willingness to speak your mind, both onwiki & on discord, refreshing.

i've never fully read through Vami's RfA nor yours, and i don't plan on it at this point, but i knew Vami for a few too-short months mostly via the discord server. i was kind of surprised when in january he offered to collaborate with me on Gates of Heaven Synagogue, as in my mind i was a lowly noob with a single GA and he an Experienced Content Writer - i recall finding out about how he'd been treated previously shortly before his death, and i guess i don't have a single solid conclusion to this thought, but it's made me reflect a lot on my short tenure here. i think we can all learn a lot from Vami, and like him, be kind and collegial regardless of early-2000s notions of social capital that still have such a grip on projectspace. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 04:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If i understood it right, you sent that to the journal. I'd be interested to hear of any response you get. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I tried at least! I used the online correction request form, about 30 minutes after I published the page on-wiki. But I didn't receive any confirmation of receipt. Maybe T&F doesn't do that? Guess we'll see. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 16:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Apparently it did make it through! ... To the help desk for all of T&F, who have now forwarded it to the journal's production team. Will keep y'all posted. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very thoughtful analysis in both. If you're healthier and happier not being an admin, I'm glad for you that you made that choice. I 100% agree that the effects of social capital on the culture here are often dismaying. Valereee (talk) 13:47, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I want to thank you for posting this. It was thought-provoking. I took it in, yesterday, and waited a day before deciding how I wanted to reply. Most importantly, I agree with Valereee that what matters is what makes you healthier and happier. As I often say, it's only a website. The other thing that occurs to me is that a while back I wrote WP:DEFARGE out of concerns about drama boards that are at least somewhat similar to your own concerns. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am thankful for your response, Tamzin. There were serious inaccuracies with what Mr. Keeler wrote. I have no doubt he is an amazing professor but he got his research wrong if that was his ultimate summation of Wikipedia and editors here. For a bit of clarity, Corbie and I clashed at times, usually over newbie mistakes I made in haste of trying to improve articles, in good faith, but ending up not doing so. We also clashed on ideas I think were miscommunications that, for my part, I don't think I took in consideration enough. But I loved Corbie being here as another voice. I never had an issue with her position on Indigenous topics as we generally lined up. My issue with her is found in what was discovered or was relayed in the AN discussion you started.

I took part in the discussion on Talk:Reservation Dogs where Revirvlkodlaku was being disruptive and received a block from Mark Ironie. There was never any indication Mark knew Corbie or had any connection or, despite the valid reason for a block, I would have asked for a review. Look, there may be people that don't like me here, that think I make poor arguments or have misguided positions. I accept criticism. Some may even question how real I am about my positions or who I am. But the fact is I try to show in everything, whether I am right or wrong, I am at least genuine and I stand for something. I admire that quality in others. As much as I want Corbie and IG here, and I so do (I miss them), I was floored by the information Corbie and Mark knew each other and in my view that made Mark an involved admin and he shouldn't have made the block.

You made a fine admin and your resignation, though painful to see, was understandable. I appreciated your candidness and thoroughness with what you wrote. I hope there is a response to your open letter. Tamzin, when I say I wish all health and happiness to you I mean ever single word. Thank you for your service as an admin. --ARose Wolf 18:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One of the things that I liked about your on the backrooms statement is it gave an excellent description to something that came up here, where I said It is unfortunate that CTOP often serves to set a minefield for newer editors who don't know how to play the WP:GAME. and caught a ration of shit from Nyb about it. I replied, in part, with I certainly hope that I didn't come across as supporting or aspiring "playing the game" and marching in rigid formation. That's just how editing in CTOPs plays out with the sanctions regime in place, and the long-term editors in those topics know how to toe the line, and often how to get others to flinch over it. That is not good, bad, and certainly not the way things should work. However, it is the way things work. You just happened to explain it much better than I. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for both of these. And thank you from the bottom of my heart for providing a transcript of the audio file! I was very surprised by some of the things you said there. (I would never have thought you shared my distaste for being a hall monitor/prefect!) I may share my thoughts, here or in an e-mail. But I have one serious niggle about your Signpost letter that I'm going to post as a comment there. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:33, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I joined this site immediately after COVID lockdowns began. My mental model of Wikipedia reminds me a lot of politics and the judiciary in a democracy like in America. Social capital is sowed and reaped to enact changes, and uninvolved people make binding decisions like a judge would. I think it's a useful framework to use. It diverges with the fact that we're not really a bureaucracy or a democracy, but the roles and norms are the same. But lawyers and judges and justices following norms is something great.

No one person is capable of reading all of ANI. Users go in and out inconsistently, resulting in inconsistent outcomes. (I never considered this to present a challenge to some on the autistic spectrum, and it's worth more of my time to consider.) One useful trick I think we ought to learn from circuit courts is the randomization of assigning cases (i.e. threads) to an admin in a pool. Their specialization is to deal with these cases, and dole out decisions consistently. Likewise, some users specialize in being justices, sitting on the supreme court (an analogy I think is unassailable). Specialization matters, even here when power is so evenly-distributed.

But halfway between when I joined and now, around 2022, is when I think I started to see other editors as colleagues. Proper colleagues. I imagine everyone in a discussion as sitting around a drawing room in a mansion, fire blazing, we're all in red robes drinking wine. We're asking each other deep questions and debating to get to some truth, putting on different hats. Other times I imagine them as researchers doing their own research, as a scholar. But still colleagues. My shift to this thinking has been positive: I get less frustrated and more complacent with the wills of other people when things don't go my way. It's all culture and capital, but it's also in the eye of the beholder. I can summarily reject any cultural capital someone has accrued. And we can get more ideal outcomes that way, individually. Maybe. SWinxy (talk) 04:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

barnstar

		The Barnstar of Diplomacy
		For an adroit close on a complex RfC Chetsford (talk) 06:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A bowl of strawberries for you!

Thank you for your effort in closing the ADL multi-RFC. It is greatly appreciated. starship .paint (RUN) 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A TARDIS for you

A rouge TARDIS (or the closest thing I could find on Commons), for having made a closure so Rouge that its effects travelled through time and were being challenged before you even issued it.
. . .
But to be serious, I appreciate that you undertook to close, and closed so thoughtfully, such a large and complex discussion even as it was getting international attention and pushback. Someone had to do it; the discussion was open for so long as to suggest no-one wanted to do it; I appreciate you doing it. -sche (talk) 16:08, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TFA

Thank you today for Capri-Sun, written together, introduced: "Capri-Sun debuted in West Germany in 1969. Since then, it has become a global brand, one made distinctive by its stand-up Doy-N-Pack pouch. Growing up, you could find a Capri-Sun in the lunchbox of that kid you hated. These days you can find them center-stage in French hip-hop culture as "the new ostentatious elixir of French rappers and gangsters". In the United States, Capri Sun is associated with wholesome things like picnics, soccer practice, and having for 16 years been licensed to one of the world's largest tobacco companies, which applied its expertise at both selling products to children and misleading the public about products' health effects, in a marketing strategy so effective that you're probably still thinking about that kid from two sentences ago. Childhood consumption of sugary beverages increased, and so did childhood obesity, but admittedly Pacific Cooler does taste great. - Initially, Tamzin and I thought this was gonna be a quick adventure – we thought we'd quickly flip a good number of soft drink articles, maybe even get a good topic. Capri-Sun quickly proved to be no insignificant task, though – it's the longest article either of us can put our names on, with every word of prose written from scratch. To our knowledge, this is the most comprehensive independent work on Capri-Sun in existence. We got it to GA in early 2023 after a couple months' work, making it one of two GAs on a soft drink and the only one on a juice beverage. Then, it just sat for a while. But after dusting off the ol' thing and giving it the last few bits it was missing, it is with much pride and added sugar that we finally push this towards the finish line. :)"! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Tamzin! I did not see until today this was your project. I read Capri-Sun on the front page and very much enjoyed it. Nice stuff! BusterD (talk) 03:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

		The Admin's Barnstar
		I stated in the discussion below the vote that I felt quite bad for whichever poor admin got tasked with closing the ADL RfC - props for being one of the ones to do so! The Kip ^(contribs) 21:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Kip: Thanks! Although I've got some bad news for you about your choice of barnstar. 😛 -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:04, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, my bad haha. I'll leave it as-is, though - thought that counts and all that. The Kip ^(contribs) 22:05, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad it was you two helping The Wordsmith performing the close. I can't say I agree 100% with your close, which (by my reckoning) puts your pitch right in the sweet spot. Thanks for taking that responsibility with leek. BusterD (talk) 03:30, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have you know, BusterD, that according to (an otherwise pretty good piece by) the JTA, The Wordsmith, leek, and I are all a single editor. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 03:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ha hahahahaha. Hahah! Hah! Hah! Huhhah! Hooooooohaaaaaah! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hhahahahahahahaha. Haha. Haha. ha. ha. ah. Ahem. BusterD (talk) 04:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would put you all in violat.... hahhhahahahahahahahaha! Hoooooohaaaaaaah! Ohhhhhhhh hahhhhhhhh! I'm sorry... BusterD (talk) 04:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First people called me a sock for being more than one person. Now they call me a sock for being less than one! -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 04:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I agree wholeheartedly with Tamzin. Right as always. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be an extraordinary claim. And we all know extraordinary claims have steep sourcing requirements. Mere accusation may have worked for some previously. Here you'd need proof AND a consensus. It's amazing how some people don't realize this almost always works in justice's favor. If ad hominem is all they've got, you've already won the argument. BusterD (talk) 05:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'zinbot

Hello Tamzin, I hope you are doing great. I noticed that 'zinbot has not reviewed any RfDed redirects since 17 April 2024. Maybe it needs a fix? – DreamRimmer (talk) 06:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DreamRimmer: I think @TheresNoTime was looking into this, as they run that side of the bot. Hey Sammy! Fox sighting recently here! First in over a year. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 16:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look when I get a moment ^^ and oh cool, the foxes are back! 🦊 — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 18:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*foxen -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the update. If you ever need an extra pair of hands to help maintain this tool in the future, I'd be happy to help out :) – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DreamRimmer @Pppery, also @Robertsky: Very sorry for the delay here.

Fixed There were a few issues, primarily that no one made the requested notification when Ahecht modified the template's output in April. Still, it's my fault this took so long to fix. Ideally I'd like to make the bot load a cached version of the template's output periodically, to remove the dependency on manual updates, but I'm still mulling over the best way to dynamically turn that output into a regex without letting through false positives. It was suggested at some point in the past that maybe my conservativism in looking for the exact output of {{subst:RfD|<redirect>}} was excessive, since while it does reduce the risk of patrolling vandalism, that's a very low risk to begin with, and any such vandalism would usually be low-visibility, plus vandalism can always occur after the patrolling regardless. So I'm tempted to just check for an {{#invoke:RfD... and leave it at that. But I'm not sure yet. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 23:22, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I must've missed that box since all the others were talking only about breaking changes, not just HTML changes. My mistake. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 03:53, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Hi, Tamzin. I don't think we've ever interacted on WP but there's a first time for everything, right?

Your userpage has frankly given me a lot of pause recently. Especially your "On the backrooms" off-the-cuff essay (I read the captions instead though!) and this: if you find yourself spending more time talking about the people who write wikipedia than being one of those people, remember that you can fix that today

I indeed have found myself in that camp and I'm actually studying sociology at the moment as well... so the "social capital" of WP has taken on a much more sad meaning to me. Knowing that an ugly but I guess inevitable part of society has made its way onto this project is... yeah, pretty sad. petty. Waste of time. Pretty much WP:ANI in a nutshell. There is also literally no reason for us--for me--to not be nice to fellow editors. It's easy to bring out our 'mean' sides when a screen separates us.

I'd like to do better with my article writing and constructive contribution. And thank you for steering me (and I'm sure many others) towards the right direction, towards the things that actually MATTER. Every article makes an amazing impact for crying out loud. I always find myself on here researching things I'm studying, and oftentimes, WP beats any other lame search result Google could give me. And that is thanks to the tireless (and often thankless) hard work of editors like Vami--I'd like to be a completionist, to honor his good name with good editing... not a quarreler. — That Coptic Guy^{ping me!} (talk) (contribs) 05:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

heartfelt subject goes here

		The LGBT Barnstar
		hi, i don't really know exactly what to put here but i guess i'll just thank you, tamzin, for inspiring me to edit. you were really an inspiration. and even though i don't edit much i'm forever indebted to you in helping me find a new hyperfixation and transitioning from a wikipedia reader to editor (sometimes) and eepy girl. have a splendiferous day <3 pali sina li pona e nasin mi. pauliesnug ^{(message / contribs)} 10:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article improvement

Hey Tamzin, the concept of gender nonconformity came up in a discussion and I know you've done some good work on LGBT-related topics. I figured I'd ask if you have any ideas or are interested on working on this? No issues if not, I realize that most Wikipedians already have crazy to do lists as it is. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clovermoss: I think I have my hands full right now with rewriting Transgender sexuality, and then a few projects lines up after that too. Thanks for the offer though. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Most Wikipedians have a lot on their plate but I figured the worse I could get is a no. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shitposting warning

Please refrain from shitposting on Wikipedia as you did at Andrew Tate. Your edits have been hidden as part of a collapsed discussion.

If you are engaged in shitposting with another editor, please discuss the off-topic shit with the editor at their talk page, not the article talk page.
If you are engaged in any other form of shitposting, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's shitposting guidleines, and please do not continue to make shitposts that appear shit. CNC (talk) 00:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) Holy crap, I had my finger on the rollback button! Knitsey (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I find this very homophobic against @Drmies. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sticking up for me, Tamzin. I'm having a hard enough time already with my identity, and now I'm getting collapsed? That's almost like being canceled, isn't it? I'm being oppressed. That's it: I'm going to pet my dog and make creme brulees for my kids. (Is that a gay enough thing to do? I'm so confused.) Drmies (talk) 01:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Washington DC

I need to switch to your brand of coffee. Wow! Thanks for that - JohnInDC (talk) 12:16, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JohnInDC: A few weeks clean from it, actually! Did have some Wawa store-brand Arnold Palmer midway through, though. Plus maybe I was a little late on my lithium. Anyways, hope the list is of some use plotting a way forward. My schedule's a bit wonky the next few weeks, running up and down the Northeast Corridor to deal with two and a half familial medical crises, but I hope to get some editing time in on the D.C. article, and I think I've found a few people who'll have time to do deeper dives than I can.

On that note, if any talkpage watchers are in D.C.: 1) I will be there from late on the 5th to midday on the 9th, with moderate availability, and am always happy to grab lunch or coffee (well, not actual coffee, see above) with just about anyone, schedule permitting; and 2) feel free to check out Washington, D.C. and its talk page for discussion of what might need to be done to keep it at FA. Or in the latter case if you're not in D.C. but just like a challenge. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up

On your interesting Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-06-08/Opinion

May I suggest linking your work from PubPeer entry on the academic article in question, to give it more visibility? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Piotrus: I don't have the fight in me for all that, but if you'd like to, by all means! -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin Done (I left a comment linking to your piece). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would this be a useful essay? Or is this topic either irrelevant or sufficiently covered?

Hey, I hope this message finds you well. I’m reaching out to you because of your excellent work on Wikipedia:Hate is disruptive, as well as the discussion at Talk:F1NN5TER about doxxing. The question of how to treat sources that are at least somewhat reliable but are (rightly or wrongly) perceived as prejudiced (either broadly or based on protected class) has been repeatedly discussed on Wiki. Therefore, I think that writing up a „how-to-deal-with-this“ might be useful, titled something along the line of WP:PREJUDICEDSOURCES. What do you think? FortunateSons (talk) 14:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kolkata close

I didn't comment in the RFC, but had been keeping an eye on it. That was one of the most clearly written and well rationed closes I've seen in awhile, so I thought I'd give you a whale to help with your cetacean needs. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 17:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, her need for cetaceans is seriously overstated. Elli (talk | contribs) 17:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, @ActivelyDisinterested! I may have plenty of cetaceans, but you can never have too many... is something I imagine a B-movie mad scientist character saying. (See also Anderson, M.T. (2005). Whales on Stilts.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin, thank you for the clear and informative close. Would you consider bolding it is not made at the behest of the Supreme Court of India? It's just that the media has been synthesizing together "Supreme Court demands Wikipedia to remove name" and "Wikipedia removes name" together in headlines. Svampesky (talk) 18:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Svampesky: I actually did have it boldfaced in the first draft, but I decided I didn't want to put too fine a point on that and come off as hostile. I think it's best to let people read the full close and focus on whichever details they want to. But I might be convinced otherwise if there's particularly glaring media misunderstandings. Can you point to ones you've seen? I only see [1], which predates my close. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Hindu headline you referenced and Business Standard: Kolkata rape case: SC orders financial probe, Wikipedia to remove names [2]. They are both broadsheets or newspapers of record, so anything printed in them (including synthesized headlines) would be trusted by the general reader. Svampesky (talk) 18:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Svampesky: But these both seem to be about the order and the WMF's response, not the RfC's outcome? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The name was preemptively removed before the RfC closed, and the synthesized headlines give the impression that this removal was done in response to a court order. I believe we need to strongly emphasize that we didn't do that, in the case of further misreporting/synthesized headlines. Svampesky (talk) 20:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, but I'm still not sold that boldfacing that bit would do more good than harm. Imagine a mischaracterizatiom in the opposite direction: "Western Wikipedians reject Indian Supreme Court's authority". It was a delicate edge to walk, and I'm still inclined to let the full close speak for itself. Do others have thoughts? Pings @ActivelyDisinterested & also @Johnuniq, Cabayi, and Chaotic Enby, since they thanked me for the close. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would think boldfacing it could help, as I don't really see that mischaracterization as being equally harmful (we are, indeed, not making editorial decisions based on court authorities), while it might otherwise be missed by journalists conflating our close with the Supreme Court order.

However, you make a good point that we shouldn't have this close appear to be coming from a Western perspective, and input from Indian Wikipedians more knowledgeable with their country's media and cultural norms would be far superior to my own thoughts on that whole matter. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:14, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately there's nothing that can be done on Wikipedia about news sources incorrectly reporting the details. The close is clear about the issues involved and the rejection of the court order as a controlling factor. Personally I don't see a need to bold those words. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am fairly confident that, unfortunate though it is, the ship has already sailed on our making the parties to the court case, the court itself, the broader stakeholders, and the world at large aware of the fact that this was in essence a voluntary decision predicated on internal policies and considerations. Bluntly, the community was asleep at the wheel on this one: the ultimate decision was more or less a foregone conclusion, and the time to codify it as such was before Wikipedia was made party to the case--or at the very least, before the ruling was rendered. Now we have left outside institutions in general, and the Supreme Court and government of India in particular, with the possible impression that we acceded to their authority and judgment.

That could very well factor in to a future decision by the court (or any number of other entities) to similarly attempt to force our hand on content they deem actionable under the domestic law of a particular country. With very little guarantee that next time our own eventual analysis of the issue will align our consensus decision with what is wanted by the court/sovereign seeking to enforce its decision on any such future occasion. This is a bad precedent that didn't need to happen, which could play into future tensions between the community, outside parties, and the WMF. I'm not sure exactly what they are, but I am certain there are lessons to be learned from this situation about seeking broader community input in such cases long before the point of such problematic outcomes. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 06:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, but the point that brought me here in the first place: I too wish to thank Tamzin for taking on the highly visible close and making a good account of themselves at the task. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 06:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone wanting to make a political statement should consider adding something to their user page. This kind of issue will arise again and each case will have to be handled on its merits. Pointing to some bold text on an old talk page won't help. If an article were written like that close, it would get an immediate FA rating. Johnuniq (talk) 00:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. And my compliments are not given too often, so take it for what it's worth, but you did a truly good job on this close. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:14, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, @Seraphimblade, and @The Herald below. I wonder if there'd be any interest in an essay on writing difficult closes? Not the consensus-weighing part—hopefully anyone taking on a high-profile close already knows how to do that—but the strategies of how to phrase things in a way that will leave everyone... maybe not happy, but at least not enraged. Or maybe someone's already written such an essay, I don't know. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's an essay I'd love to read. If there's already one, a link would be so helpful. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know of any, but there really probably should be. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on that close, quite impressive. I'm looking forward to reading your close on this (so far hypothetical) rfc:[3]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:16, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: It begins "First, we must consider the arguments raised regarding tenure, neutrality, cross-wiki experience, and representativeness of the global community as a whole", and ends "There being no consensus, but a null outcome not being an option, I find that the least bad solution is to go with the person who satisfies all four of those criteria while having done the least to upset anyone. My first thought, Example, is actually only attached on a few wikis, and for whatever reason is sockblocked on Commons. Instead I select MediaWiki message delivery, albeit with some trepidation given its erstwhile 2-minute block on enwiki, and given the time it added [[Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo|bison]] to a few thousand pages and I had to clean it up. In the highly likely event that this close is overturned but no new consensus is found, my fallback pick is whoever closes the overturn discussion." -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for writing that, made my day! @Ravensfire, you don't want to miss this, but careful with the soda. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamzin, you might find this [4][5] a bit interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Thriley has given you a pack of Toblerone bars! Chocolate promotes WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Toblerone bars are wonderfully delicious! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a pack of Toblerone bars, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

Fantastic work on Celebrity Number Six!

Spread the goodness of Toblerone bars by adding {{subst:Toblerone for you}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

Thriley (talk) 20:01, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some baklava for you!

For that brilliant Kolkata RfC close. I was just happy to see your name and edit summary on my watchlist, and I knew it will be an amazing well detailed close. Arigato :) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:42, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Deletion to Quality Award for Celebrity Number Six

		The Deletion to Quality Award
		For your contributions to bring Celebrity Number Six (prior candidate for deletion at: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Celebrity Number Six) to Good Article status, I hereby present you The Deletion to Quality Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! TompaDompa (talk) 14:52, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, TompaDompa, and thank you for the thorough GA review! I actually have a second candidate for this pending at GAN right now, this one a proper AfD save that I was even a delete on initially, Death of Richard Swanson (AfD). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation to participate in a research

Hello,

The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Wikipedia, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this anonymous survey.

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WMF Research Team

BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC) [reply]

Wrong diff links in ANI thread comment

Hi, sorry, this may not be worth this message, but I thought I'd let you know that the last two diffs you linked in your comment in today's Lightburst ANI thread ("commented again" and "replied") are not the ones you meant to link, I believe (the correct ones are just one away for each though, so it's not like the sources for the quoted text are impossible to find). Feel free to ignore/remove this message :) Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 23:32, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Felida97: Oh, thanks! It was the issue that comes up if you cycle through diffs using "next". Fixed now. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 00:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Canada-India talk page

Sorry to bug you over this, Tamzin, but since you just closed the split proposal, I'm hoping you saw the "poisoning the well" comment directed towards me just before.[6] One of the diffs they do show is me literally giving an apology. I get they think my conduct is subpar but I don't think laying that all out there (complete with the aforementioned PA and others in there) and then wanting me to discuss content in the next paragraph is fair. Could you by chance remove the PAs? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 01:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GhostOfDanGurney: I am not an admin, and closed the discussion just as any ol' content editor chipping in. If you have a user conduct concern, you should bring that to WP:AE under ARBIPA, or to WP:AN/I if you prefer worse feedback. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

pona tawa sina

	pona
	sina pali mute. sina utala e ike la, sina pona tawa mi. LesbianTiamat (She/Her) (troll/pester) 05:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WikiCup 2024 November newsletter

The 2024 WikiCup has come to an end, with the final round being a very tight race. Our new champion is AirshipJungleman29 (submissions), who scored 2,283 points mainly through 3 high-multiplier FAs and 3 GAs on military history topics. By a 1% margin, Airship beat out last year's champion, BeanieFan11 (submissions), who scored second with 2,264 points, mainly from an impressive 58 GAs about athletes. In third place, Generalissima (submissions) scored 1,528 points, primarily from two FAs on U.S. Librarians of Congress and 20 GAs about various historical topics. Our other finalists are: Sammi Brie (submissions) with 879 points, Hey man im josh (submissions) with 533 points, BennyOnTheLoose (submissions) with 432 points, Arconning (submissions) with 244 points, and AryKun (submissions) with 15 points. Congratulations to our finalists and all who participated!

The final round was very productive, and contestants had 7 FAs, 9 FLs, 94 GAs, 73 FAC reviews, and 79 GAN reviews and peer reviews. Altogether, Wikipedia has benefited greatly from the activities of WikiCup competitors all through the contest. Well done everyone!

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Next year's competition will begin on 1 January. You are invited to sign up to participate; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to see you all in the 2025 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement!

If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs), Epicgenius (talk · contribs), and Frostly (talk · contribs). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:49, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Death of Richard Swanson

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Death of Richard Swanson you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of WikiOriginal-9 -- WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your GA nomination of Death of Richard Swanson

The article Death of Richard Swanson you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Death of Richard Swanson for comments about the article, and Talk:Death of Richard Swanson/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of WikiOriginal-9 -- WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 03:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Diff/1255305234

Hi Tamzin. I completely misread your comment so I removed my reply. Would appreciate if you would remove yours too since that's not how I intend to respond. It's getting late where I am so I'll see about writing a proper response tomorrow. -Fastily 06:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 06:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fastily: For what it's worth, I really avoid participating at AN/I as much as I can help it. So maybe it conveys how alarmed I was at your treatment of Clovermoss and Fathoms Below that I felt I had to make an exception. Or maybe it doesn't; not like you're under any obligation to think I have good judgment. Either way, I've said my piece in the thread, and I'll leave it to calmer minds than mine (that's a joke, it's AN/I we're talking about) to figure out where to go from here. So no need to ping on reply or anything like that. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 08:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't see you had fixed the others...

Please see Template talk:Archive top yellow#Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2024, same css spillover problem as the others you fixed. – 2804:F1...86:83AA (talk) 19:56, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Elliiiiiiiiiiii weren't you gonna do this? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed it now. And yes I was meaning to do so earlier, but I forgot. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SOM:Ledecite does not mean you do not have to put citations in a entire section

You have reverted my edit on Whitestripes,Ledecite means like,a paragraph, not a whole citationless section, UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 20:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page jaguar) No, WP:LEADCITE very specifically articulates that citations are generally not required in the lead section of an article, as it is meant to be a summary of the cited material in the body. Remsense ‥ 论 20:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Remsense has it right. I've elaborated in my revert summary. Note in particular that LEADCITE contemplates misunderstandings of this nature, and explicitly uses the word "lead sections": As editors are often unaware of this guideline, good faith should be assumed when {{citation needed}} tags are added to lead sections sometimes erroneously. {{Leadcite comment}} can be added to article leads that often attract unwarranted {{citation needed}} tags. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

then what is the point of the existence of Template:US? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 22:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be used in any section except the lead. Maybe the template's documentation should say that. If you see a lead section that contains statements not verified in the body of the article, there's {{Lead extra info}}. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 22:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That template is for sections that require references. The lead does not require references. Remsense ‥ 论 22:36, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin,Okay you are right UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 23:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Talkpage expectations

I see you have applied Talkpage expectations,I am intrested of applying some to my own talkpage,but how? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 18:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UnsungHistory: You can copy the source code at User talk:Tamzin/Expectations and modify accordingly. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 07:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Species close

Not the sort of result my comments were seeking to create, but thought I'd let you know I appreciate the careful wording, which must have taken some time. Best, CMD (talk) 08:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting

[7] Drmies (talk) 15:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmies: Yeah, I noticed that too. Possibly better to leave the ES but yeet the IP, rather than the other way around, to leave a clearer record if anyone ever adds it back? (I'd suggest OS over RD; email me if not clear why.)

But yeah, seriously, at least the sixth time I've seen this with a BLPNAME violation being worsened when it turns into deadnaming someone and/or forcing them to overpublicize a transition. A friend's boyfriend, Seph Mozes, reached out to me years ago about the plight of being deadnamed in his mother's article but not having publicly transitioned. I offered to remove it as a BLPNAME violation but he was worried that, given his mother's fame, celebrity journalists would notice the removal. Not a likely event, given that most journalists can't even find the history tab, but I understand why he was that concerned after a childhood in the spotlight, and he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. I would have been in the same position, during my 9 months of partial social transition in 2019, if Rms125a@hotmail.com hadn't had the sense to remove my name from my dad's article in 2013. In the past few years I've also run into the non-notable-trans/enby kid problem at Mike Tyson and Eric A. Meyer as you know, and also at Terence Tao, Bob Lee (businessman), and Tony Hawk.

Not sure what to do about this. It's not a trans-specific issue, obviously, just more obvious there. BLPNAME violations are ubiquitous, possibly on more bios than not. Perhaps some cleanup project is needed, especially for minor children. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 20:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Audio Essay

Hi Tamzin. I came here after seeing your post at the Bureaucrats' noticeboard. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to respond there, so I'm posting here instead. I just listened to your audio essay from when you resigned your admin rights. I was so impressed with it. I thought your reasoning was considered, concise and insightful. The part about the computer game, big circles eating up smaller circles especially hit home with me. Social capital does seem to be prevalent here at Wikipedia, a tiny microcosm of life in general, distilled down to a couple of noticeboards. I'm glad you've decided to go back to admin duties and I hope you can return making the changes we need, no matter how big or small.

If you ever need a change of career, you should think about audio books. Probably inappropriate to say this but what the hell, your voice is so soothing lol.

Good luck, Knitsey (talk) 01:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Knitsey! At some point I'd like to do a whole treatise on the social economics of Wikipedia—for instance, how opposing at RfA is essentially a ritual sacrifice of social capital, while closing a discussion is a gamble, since more social capital lowers the risk of challenge, but a successful challenge costs you a multiple of what you spent. But for now I'm glad the essay gets the general point across.

And I get that a lot about my voice. The secret is that, just like half-baked cookies taste better, doing only half of transfeminine voice training sounds better. :D It's funny you bring that up, though: Yesterday I woke up with a sore throat, and then toward the end of the day found myself suddenly having to console a stranger who was crying, and doing that without my normal voice was like fighting with a hand tied behind my back. Usually I can just say anything and it'll calm someone down. So, uh, if you know anyone looking for audiobook narration with a soothing androgynous voice, sure, hit me up. :) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 01:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Social economics and how we calculate trading is definitely something that might interest quite a few people on here. I think a lot of people do it without realising (I include myself somewhat in that) and recognising that trade could help in a change of some behaviours. Or at least give pause for thought.

Transfeminine voice training - I never even thought about that! Now I've gone down the YouTube rabbit hole of voice training when transitioning. I honestly never knew that was a 'thing' but it make complete sense as part of the transitioning process. The thing is, many decades ago whe I started my career it was male dominated and I found that over the first few years, my voice changed so that I didn't stand out as female. I haven't thought about that in years. Knitsey (talk) 01:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My mother experienced the same thing as a TV news producer in the '80s. She's naturally a soprano but learned to be a low alto to differentiate herself from the secretaries. That's actually one of a number of masculine traits she picked up in that line of work, which led to the funny situation that if I ever think "What would Mom do?" in a situation and try to act like her, that's literally the only time anyone reads me as a "sir". -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 02:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I probably shouldn't have laughed at your 'sir' comment...but I did. The amount of times I would turn up to a job and the look of disappointment because I wasn't the 'hunk' they assumed I was going to be. Much eyerolling and pretending it was still funny to hear that for the umpteenth time. Knitsey (talk) 02:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, if any talkpage watchers want an impossible sourcing challenge: A while ago someone made a Wikidata item for my mom. I was going to ask someone to add the fact that she co-won an Emmy in 1990 for CBS' coverage of Hurricane Hugo, but this has proven shockingly difficult to find a source for, even though I've seen the damn statuette. The closest I've come is this article that at least verifies that CBS won for its Hugo coverage, but says neither the name of the category nor the producers who were honored. Searching is complicated by the fact that there are five kinds of Emmy award, awarded by three different academies, and the relevant one here, NATAS, doesn't list old winners on its site, while the ATAS' search engine optimization scoops up a lot of search terms even when they explicitly mention the news Emmys. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 03:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Few sourcing challenges are impossible when a procrastinating Wikipedian is on the case: official verification here (bottom of page 1); secondary verification here (bottom of page 446). Very glad to see the BN request, by the way! Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'll be damned! Ping @AntiCompositeNumber, who's been editing the item. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 04:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to blame the Internet Archive outage for me not finding that, even thought it had been mostly fixed by the time Tamzin asked me. Bunch of Wikidata edits done, plus a few added citations here too. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ayy, and just like that a 14-year-old {{cn}} vanishes at Kathleen Sullivan (journalist). @AntiCompositeNumber: I'm not even sure it'd be a COI for me to do it since I've never met Sullivan, but at least to avoid an appearance of impropriety, at her article could you change to [[Emmy Award for Outstanding Live Coverage of a Breaking News Event|Outstanding Live Coverage of a Breaking News Event]] to

[[Emmy Award for Outstanding General Coverage of a Single Breaking News Story|Outstanding Live Coverage of a Breaking News Event]]

per source? The former seems to be something Wikipedia just made up (or more likely, someone wrote out from memory and then someone else "helpfully" linked—haven't checked). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 18:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Went with

[[Emmy Award for Outstanding General Coverage of a Single Breaking News Story|Outstanding General Coverage of a Single Breaking News Story]]

. Maybe in another 14 years someone will decide to write about the News Emmys. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 18:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent edit summary

Great wording on this. "Low profile" is just the term I was looking for. "Non-notable" (my previous go-to) sounds mean in that context. Joyous! Noise! 23:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Joyous!: Thanks! Taken from the wording of WP:BLPNAME and WP:LPI (an imperfect essay that works well enough here). I'm trying to do a cleanup of needless kid-naming in bios... 9 down so far, thousands more to go. See § Interesting for backstory on this. Feel free to join me! I'm starting with the results of this search. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 23:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A fox for you!

Welcome back to the admin corps!

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 00:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To say this is shocking is an understatement. Given your comments this year about administrators and administrative work, the last thing I expected is that you would want to return to the admin corps when you didn't seem to have much respect for the position. We can always use more help, I'm just very surprised given your previous statements. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: I have neither respect nor disrespect for the position, because I don't think of positions as something meriting respect, but I certainly have lots of respect for (most) admins as individuals and (mostly) as a team. My issue is with the culture surrounding user conduct matters. Even a decade into better civility enforcement (and I know you remember the bad old days), we're still inconsistent and pick favorites. We still allow a self-appointed peanut gallery at AN/I to be one of the most powerful entities on the site. And most importantly, our system of user conduct enforcement still functions more like a gambling game of social capital than anything approaching a justice system. But I've realized I can still operate within that system, to some degree, despite my reservations about it. I think I had to find a certain degree of both passion and dispassion within me... so in a way, the "radical changes to how I work" that I wrote off in my essay have come to pass. Plus, two of the things that most frustrated me—unchecked RfA incivility and the ability of admins' friends to stonewall legitimate complaints about them at AN(/I)—have been significantly mitigated with this year's reforms, which has been great to see. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 10:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Woah, welcome back Tamzin! I see you felt like being in the position of using the mop again after a while of careful reconsideration. Great to see you return to taking part in administrative tasks with a new approach! — AP 499D25 (talk) 02:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the bottom of my heart, thank you

Re: this action. I have personally had an EXTREMELY poor series of interactions where MI, CV, and IG all colluded to block me. When I stated what I'd be working on, IG edited one of the pages I said I'd be working on and then claimed I was stalking them "on a page he'd never edited before". MI and CV naturally jumped on that bandwagon and got me blocked for a month.

You and I appear to disagree on much politically, but it is heartening to see that even "foes" can look at something and agree "yeah, that's wrong". Thank you so much for bringing this to light and doing something about it. It takes great courage sometimes to do the right thing! A million times: thank you! Buffs (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NSPECIES

Thank you for your thoughtful close at that RfC. I appreciate that you recognized the difference between "acknowledging current practice" and "endorsing that practice" and left open the potential for amendments to the language. Would you be willing to look over the newer section I made and advise on the issues I've pointed out, because I am getting a lot of condescension and misreadings by the regulars over what seems like a very straightforward problem: the guideline explicitly states a species "having a valid name" meets the SNG, and also that this is by definition always accompanied by SIGCOV in a reputable academic publication -- this is probably true for all taxa except animals, where a species can get a valid name with an un-peer-reviewed self-published paper. Somehow this is getting dismissed as a non-problem? Or being wildly misunderstood? Am I going insane, or is it still considered "not good" to base articles around SPS from hobbyists?
Thanks JoelleJay (talk) 23:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JoelleJay: Closing the RfC doesn't give me any special insight on the subject, just the ability to read consensus. All I can volunteer, having read through the discussion, is that y'all have gotten quite abstract and have reached the point of arguing about what you're arguing about. The discussion might benefit from some more concrete examples. And/or it might benefit from waiting for a while for the dust to settle from the RfC close. Also, I'll note that NSPECIES is a guideline, and cannot trump WP:V, a policy that states any claim "must have been previously published in a reliable source before you can add it" to an article. So if your concern is that a specific source or kind of source fail WP:V, that goes beyond the bounds of NSPECIES, and is something you could discuss at WP:RSN among other places. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 17:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Tamzin. I asked you because you're the only editor I know who has read the whole discussion without participating in it. I do think the appearance of "abstraction" is from editors just categorically not understanding what the ICZN is or how valid names work and arguing against positions that don't exist (e.g. "merely having an ICZN listing"). I don't anticipate this area ever becoming more receptive to changes; it's been a walled garden for over a decade.

I did give some concrete examples -- we have 600 articles sourced to the self-published magazine Visaya -- but I think the bigger problem is that the SNG just does not have usable guidance for the animal kingdom in general. I explained this in one of my comments: The guideline does not state that "acceptance by the relevant international body of taxonomists" means "acceptance by certain authoritative databases"; in fact, the only "relevant international bod[ies] of taxonomists" ever referenced on this page are the nomenclatural committees, and we state concordance with their definitions of "valid name" directly satisfies the SNG. So how is it at all intuitive for NPP, AfC, etc. to read this guidance and conclude that "this new animal species description in SPS meets the criteria for a valid name as dictated by the ICZN, thus meeting the SNG section on eukaryotes, but actually we can't use those rules that we link to and instead we should check whichever taxon-specific database requires positive, reliably-published community acceptance before it designates a name as "valid", even though the SNG doesn't even hint at mentioning such databases"? Editors are also arguing that "the standards" in taxonomy regarding publishing trump WP rules on unreliability, and therefore databases that make no claim of editorial oversight or which have clear COIs are acceptable as the sole sources of pages. JoelleJay (talk) 00:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More examples: ~440 articles sourced to Malacologia Mostra Mondiale, a self-pub "edited" by a physician-turned-shell-seller and sold on Poppe's ConchBooks website. Its most recent issues feature new species descriptions by NN Thach (whose taxonomic vandalism has been described in multiple academic papers)... There are dozens (hundreds?) of articles sourced exclusively to this magazine and the species' minimal entry on MolluskBase, apparently all created by GaneshBot around 2010. We've also got dozens of pages sourced solely to Thach's 48HrBooks books and a MolluskBase entry, and sometimes only the former source, e.g. Amphidromus mariae. These are just hits for the first two fake journals I looked up...there are bound to be many more. JoelleJay (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AMP (Any Means Possible)

Hi, looking at the sources, I see a G11, but it's no big issue, I leave it for somebody else to handle. A7 doesn't seem applicable, I think. Cheers. --Randykitty (talk) 20:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Toki Pona

Toki Pona has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aras War

I'm curious, what makes you think the Draft:Aras War was a hoax? I'm not saying you are mistaken. Or even if you are, I'm very sure several other speedy delete categories would apply. It just keeps on getting recreated and I can't understand what's going on there. Feel free to email me if WP:BEANS applies. --Yamla (talk) 19:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yamla: I was going off of JBW's findings at Aras War; see tangentially related Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nuraddin historys13. But yes, if not G3, it's likely G5—compare to Idkarmenia21's version at Special:Undelete/Draft:Aras War—and definitely a WP:GS/AA ECR violation. Speaking of which, I'm going to go EC-salt the article. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 19:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oooh, that was the context I was looking for. Thanks! --Yamla (talk) 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yamla and Tamzin: My attention was drawn to the article Aras War when I was investigating an elaborate web of sockpuppetry and hoaxing. I don't remember all the details, but, as Tamzin has suggested, Nuraddin historys13 and their sockpuppets came into it. Anyway, however it was that I came to be investigating the article, I put quite a bit of time into checking supposed references, searching for information about the war, and so on. I found absolutely no reliable sources supporting the claims made in the article, and what is more, it wasn't mentioned in sources which certainly would have mentioned it. I became 100% confident that it was a hoax. JBW (talk) 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JBW: My suspicion, based on the breadth of this, the fact that it seems more MEAT than SOCK, and the fact that Nuraddin historys13 is (per userpage self-disclosure) a YouTuber who makes explicitly nationalist content that sometimes references these articles [8] [9], is that this is less "something the user made up" hoaxing and more "something that is being taught as ethnonationalist pseudohistory somewhere on the Web" hoaxing, with varying levels of complicity by the people perpetuating it, and maybe a dash of AI-generated "improvement". But, hoaxing either way. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 22:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeech, what a world we live in. --Yamla (talk) 22:47, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Unfortunately I think you may well be right, Tamzin, from what I saw. JBW (talk) 22:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History repeats itself

Hi, Tamzin. A few hours ago I found the user page Lukasnorman65, and decided to post some advice to the editor. I also intended to move the page to draft space, because I foresaw the likelihood that it would be nominated for speedy deletion. As I was writing my message, I was called away, and it was much later that I found time to finish it. When I was ready to save it, I found that, just as I expected, it had been nominated for speedy deletion, which you had declined. I just thought it was rather funny, because, as you know, yesterday you declined a speedy deletion nomination that I was going to decline. Could this become a regular habit? 😏 (I find it astonishing how many editors can't see the difference between misuse of a user page as a personal web page and use of a userpage for a draft article.)

On a completely different matter, yesterday I referred to you as "she", but I have now seen that you ask for they/xe. My apologies, and I will try to remember in future. JBW (talk) 21:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JBW: Yes, U5 has been a frustration of mine for a long time. With it no longer being emptied with such... precise regularity, shall we say... I've taken it upon myself to keep a closer eye on the category. I find that most taggings do meet the wording of U5, or fall under G11 while being close enough to U5 that I wouldn't fault the user for tagging as that instead, and indeed I've been deleting more userpages in the past few days than I ever had before... but an alarming number are of things that would be entirely normal to see as AfC drafts, or of basic introductory text exactly along the lines of what WP:UPYES calls for.

This is something I've talked about in the past with, variously, @Elli, @Clovermoss, and @theleekycauldron, among others. Now, inspired by @HouseBlaster's WP:What G6 is not, I've written an essay, WP:What U5 is not. Thoughts welcome!

Oh, and on the pronouns note, JBW, if you click what "they|xe" links to, you'll see I don't care at all what people use, as long as it's authentic to how they see me. That could've been clearer, though, so I've managed to shave off a few bytes from my sig so I could fit in a 🤷 to, I hope, clarify. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|🤷) 23:19, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) That "precise regularity," is very euphemistic.😛 Glad you are wrangling the U5's. And G11's. They are sometimes over-applied. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:58, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seeking a second opinion

I am highly confident that 178.218.129.106 is a VPN server being abused by WP:LTA/BMN123, but before taking the somewhat intrusive step of reverts edits on a user talk page followed by a friendly advisement, I'd prefer someone else double check; frankly it might be better for a sysop to leave the advisement anyway.

As background, BMN123 has a habit of archiving talk page discussions that don't go their way which is to say all of them, and then placing NOINDEX tags on them. As just one example these discussions did not reach the result they wanted so they have been attempting to NOINDEX that page for some time, I suppose so that people are less likely to notice their slow motion edit warring against consensus. This is easily viewable in the page history. All of this is also documented on their LTA page. One of the more recent edits mentions the same user that 178.218.129.106 is attempting to influence. 103.115.17.30 also tried to NOINDEX one of the usual targets, and subsequently created the section 178.218.129.106 added to. The only slightly oddball thing is that 178.218.129.106 has been reused over a longer period than is typical of their non-mainspace use of proxies/VPNs, but that's not enough to cause me to doubt this one.

I think that's enough, but if you have some extra time you can feel free to review the LTA page in full. It's not as compact as say WP:LTA/TVFT, but the detail does serve a purpose and it even got excerpted in the signpost, so there's that. There's actually a lot more that was left off for various reasons, some of which is linked on the LTA talk page (e.g. [10], [11], [12]) along with many pieces that like this old AN discussion, there's other stuff on the LTA talk page too which I've used as a notebook of sorts until there's an edit request worth making, but it's a pretty deep rabbit hole, and I don't think you need to good down all of it to make the connection here.

Sorry to trouble you with this. Sideswipe9th was always the best at sniffing them out and is the first person I would think to ask, but their currently on wikibreak. Softlemonades and GeneralNotability were also at least as good as me, but they're not active either. I know you've managed to follow some incredible faint and confusing scent trails before so I trust your judgement on this.

If you need to follow-up I might be able too, but I really need to put my nose back to the grindstone soon, and the best way to avoid Wikipedia distraction is to go cold turkey, so we'll see. Thanks for any assistance you can render. 184.152.68.190 (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Well, that's the better-case scenario. The worse-case scenario is "Umm, that's not all how this thing is done, and there's no easy way to reverse the damage you did. Have a fun 6 hours unbreaking it manually unless you want a trip to ArbCom!"

[2] In fact I recently learned on WP:DISCORD that "How many GAs did the most-supported RfA candidate ever have?" is a decent stumper in Wikipedia trivia.

[3] Does something special happen at 47?

[4] See the nightmare epiphany. (Doing much better sans gallbladder, fear not.)

[5] And I emphasize "experienced" because we're often the worst offenders.

[6] And what does it say that there isn't an inverse version? But I digress.

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