User talk:Nora lives/Archive III

Macroom

Hi. Wondering about this edit, was a while ago since I added that, and I dont have the Ring source to hand, but is it entirely wrong, or have I misunderstood the source on details. Thanks and hello. Ceoil (talk) 09:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello! Not your fault and not really Ring's. It was a complicated affair and the characters appear to have gotten mixed up. I only happen to know something about it because by some accident I descend from one the people involved. The conflict referred to appears to have been the battle between Máel Muad mac Brain and Brian Bóruma, in which the former was slain, in 978. Carbery appears to have gotten mentioned because Donnubán mac Cathail (my ancestor) was an ally and possible relation of Máel Muad and had two years previously delivered up to him the capturedMathgamain mac Cennétig, elder brother of Brian, whom Máel Muad had put to death. Donnubán, king of Uí Fidgenti, is mistakenly called king of Carbery (Uí Chairpre) in non contemporary sources, because he appears to have installed his children as such. He also had a battle with Brian but that was not near Macroom. In any case Máel Muad actually belonged to the Uí Eachach Muman orEóganacht Raithlind and had come a little north to meet Brian for the battle. Confused yet? Most of it you have to read about in the Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib,[1] which I caution you is well known to be unreliable. Cheers! Oh and I must confess to making some errors in the removed passage myself last year, before I knew much about any of it. Really I was removing my own foolishness.DinDraithou (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It is called the Battle of Belach Lechta, the story starting at the bottom of p. 103. This victory makes Brian King of Munster so it is important. For discussion in the introduction, start on p. cxxxvii, and make sure to read Todd's notes. Because there are few details offered I am suspicious Ring took some of his account from the Battle of Sulcoit a decade previous, for which see pp. 77 ff. I will see if more can be found on Belach Lechta. I am happy you messaged me because I only created Máel Muad mac Brain yesterday and this gives me some direction. He had an interesting career so you might watchlist his article. It will expand slowly but we have a fair amount on him and his family. DinDraithou (talk) 15:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh right, very clear now. I'll read up the sources offered, before deciding whether to reinstate a modified and more accuratde version of the para. One of the mac Cathails, eh? We O'Ceoils have been fighting yer kin, and woeing yer women for centuries, ye bigs girls blouses.Ceoil (talk) 16:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Alright! Well fresh back from being blocked for forcing good orthography on a skeptical public I have started the Battle of Belach Lechta and plan to make myself King of Munster. But I fear for Macroom because no one is 100% certain where it all really takes place. Possibly not so quite near there. Have a look at O'Donovan's note pp. 704-5,[2] for three possible locations.DinDraithou (talk) 16:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

O'Donovan

Sorry for the delayed reply. You were asking for a coat of arms of the O'Donovans, but I am having trouble finding the colours to use for the supporters, the animals on the sides of the shield. Perhaps I missed it in the book you linked to, but do you perhaps have a source or image in colour that I could base a painting off of? [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 02:59, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

"Scottish"

Just for the record, folks, I AM PART SCOTTISH! I count the Clan Maclachlan and Clan Oliphant among my ancestors and even went through a stage where I got into the goddamned paraphernalia. DinDraithou (talk) 23:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

EVERYONE READ! IT'S FUN!Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#xenophobic_postings. oh my lady gaga.[3] DinDraithou(talk) 04:39, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Page 325 it was. On the other thing, I'll send you an email. Many thanks,Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

4th Lord of the Isles

Talk:John_of_Islay,_Earl_of_Ross#Titles. DinDraithou (talk) 17:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

MacDonnell of the Glens

Fixed! =) Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 07:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

No dice with Dubhaltach

I looked under surnames and personal names, but no luck on Otir, MacCottor, MacOttar, or any variations of thereof. Sorry mate! Fergananim (talk) 22:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

James "Gallda" Butler request

Could I ask you to look at James "Gallda" Butler please. The article makes claims that he is the son of Catherine FitzGerald. In the sources, there is more than a hint that he was illegitimate. But i can't match him up with known FitzGerald women of the time. Or if I can, it would result in an incestuous relationship! Thanks, Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really an expert with the Butlers or even with most of the FitzGeralds. I'd help if I could, but this is really not my area. My knowledge of these dynasties is limited to some of their star dynasts and not to the "discard" branches. Really that whole Baron Cahir branch don't look like they should have articles. Did they do anything slightly notable?DinDraithou (talk) 01:11, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Annals of the Four Masters

I'm not about to enter a revert war with you over this, but that edit is ridiculous. The proper page to describe the use of a template is on the template's page, not the page about the book; where it is already. Link to that under See Also, if you think it's important to the subject of the article. However, I don't think you'll find even that done on any of the pages for the books listed in Category:Specific-source_templates, which do the exact same job. Beyond that, you've still left in duplicates of those references. Bazzargh (talk) 23:32, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't see what your problem is, or what business you have with it. A quick look through your edit history back to 2006 shows we have nothing to talk about. I use the AFM constantly and added something I know will be helpful for beginners here. Templates come later for most. They have for me. In fact I plan to add the instructions to all the articles for annals with a cite template. This does not quite produce "duplicates".

The template itself was created by User:Cavila but I have expanded it to include all the scans. What CELT has done is excellent but now few online are aware of O'Donovan's notes because of it. Some contain information no longer available anywhere else. He was an historic topographer too. All those volumes were scanned for a reason. DinDraithou (talk) 02:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the page before you reverted, you'll see I left in the formatted citation containing the links to O'Donovan's notes and your description of them; I appreciate that those are useful. What I took out was the second set of links to the notes above that, and instructions for using the template. I didn't just leave the links to CELT.

Sure, knowing how to use that template might this is a useful thing to know, but its only tangentially relevant to the subject matter of the article. The primary audience of the article is readers, not editors. Ignoring WP:NOTAMANUAL for a moment, most beginners learn how to edit by copying & editing existing content; in this case, the use of the template was still there in the source, and would be discoverable by anyone interested in re-using the citation.

As for what my business is, I'm just another editor? Bazzargh (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Bargin in here if I may. I believe Bazzargh is quite right here, the article now has a double set of links to the full scans at archive.org - which it should not - and the link to the template doeasn't really belong within the article itself. That said, I'm an editor who have used AFM and other Irish annals quite a lot, but I've only used the CELT version - so this was indeed useful info for me. I'm going to make an attempt to make a third version at AFM (probably one that you would both disagree with :), may I suggest that if you do disagree we take the rest of the discussion at talk:Annals of the Four Masters.

A different thing DD - if you want to refer to a template in the text (without actually inserting it), you can use the code {{tl|Cite AFM}} which gives {{Cite AFM}} -a reference that could be cut&paste and at the same time have an active link to the template. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

DD, I'd like to apologize if my tone in that first comment came across as overly strident and uncivil. I didn't mean we had a previous beef, just that we'd undone each others edits and I wanted to seek consensus rather than re-reverting the edit I disagreed with. I wrote that late at night, never a good idea, and should have gone to bed before pressing send; on re-reading its more abrupt than I intended. Sorry. Bazzargh (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem! It looks like I was wrong anyway. Oh well. DinDraithou (talk) 02:06, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Anwyl of Tywyn

Away from the heat perhaps we can liaise here and establish what aspects of the article require further clarification, what is a reasonable conclusion to have on it and how it can be saved from unfair and unreasonable deletion. I have had years of trouble from Doug and I do not believe his involvement is neutral or constructive. I thank you for your input thus far.James Frankcom (talk) 15:36, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm not having a problem with Doug myself and am not familiar with your history. But I won't allow anything else to be deleted from the article. The drive to trash it was clearly mistaken so I stood in the way. I work with pedigrees here and there at Wikipedia myself and was able to tell there was nothing wrong with the material in the article or with how you did it.

I agree that if their pedigree is good then they still belong to the House of Aberffraw, although that is defunct (no longer functioning at all), which is the problem. Wikipedia does not get to say their pedigree might be no good when the sources say it is good, unless it can be directly connected to any real fabrications by others, which I don't see. So what we have is a probably good minor cadet male line descent from a long defunct Welsh royal family. I don't know what else there is to say unless they are actually making claims to more. Just like with the Irish nobility we have to wait for them to (re-)style themselves whatever it may be. DinDraithou(talk) 16:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your conclusion. I have referenced the particular sections with the original sources. I could do with your help defending this article because certain people are seeking to undermine it and ultimately remove it.James Frankcom (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I have read your contributions and think we both share similar interests and your knowledge about Irish nobility is excellent. It would be nice to discuss. jfrankcom@btinternet.comJames Frankcom (talk) 00:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, thank you! That's a very nice thing to say. Your knowledge of the Welsh is probably greater than mine of the Irish. I'm actually trying to step back from the subject for a while but when I'm really into it again I'll remember you. You have the look of an excellent resource. All I think I have to offer right now that you might find interesting are these where I am a contributor or the author: FitzGerald dynasty, De Barry family, Uí Liatháin. The FitzGeralds and Barrys are proud of their maternal royal Welsh ancestry and daughters are still named Nesta by the former to this day. I have both FitzGeralds and Barrys in my distant background so I guess I have a little Welsh in me too. DinDraithou (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Irish nobility

Hi, now that Irish nobility is a disambiguation page, could you help fix the misdirected links per WP:FIXDABLINKS? WP:AWB makes the job easier, but you have to get approved to use it;Navigation popups with the popupFixDabs flag set to true is also very helpful (and doesn't require approval). Thanks, --JaGa^talk 09:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm really not interested in this. Sorry. DinDraithou (talk) 15:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, at least you have the guts to admit it. Cheers, --JaGa^talk 20:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a technical person at all! I'm slow with certain things and have learned to just not get into them. DinDraithou (talk) 21:23, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello

Yeah, this has become quite a mess. Certain editors are upset that I signed my work, and several have tried to block me for a while on admin noticeboards. They went nowhere, so they have upped it up a bit and trying to permanently ban me now. It is just the English Wikipedia that takes issue with signatures so much, so I tried to make them happy by removing images. That just made them angrier. I figured that by taking away the images would end the problem, but I was wrong. Perhaps since you did it, that will help.

On a side note, I have begun the O'Conor Don arms. [talk] XANDERLIPTAK 21:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you should just go ahead and have a real white wand made, just in case. I hope he doesn't start harassing you as he did me. He has been hounding me and filing an ANI for any and every little edit, all which get ignored. But now he and others are trying to make an issue out of how many failed ANIs there are, because, as he and others want to argue, the fact they filed them in such great numbers must mean there is a problem. [talk] XANDERLIPTAK 23:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I wish it were that simple. Unless you can directly show some transgression, admins are not likely to do anything. Or they will simply block both because they don't care to take the time to realize what is going on. We could write up some Wikipedia reports to see about blocking him for a time, but that takes a lot of understanding of Wikipedia policy and bureaucratic know how. It's a mess and hassle. [talk]XANDERLIPTAK 02:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Edwin Bennett

Saw that today. Very good. I added start class to the talk page.  :) Malke 2010 (talk) 22:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey, thank you! It really is my strangest creation and my second silliest contribution of all time (I will not mention the first). Actually I somehow ended up related to his family and have seen a few of these teapots in real life. Most of them are ugly and I don't understand why they were popular. Mainly he had found a way to get a little rich. But he apparently did a little porcelain and fine art pottery too, and there may also be pieces in the Metropolitan Museum of Art but I will have to ask someone. That is almost the entire extent of my knowledge of the subject. Just like everyone back then he hired children, and the poor things worked with and around lead at the factory. DinDraithou (talk) 00:03, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

What an interesting story. I never knew that about the children working. I knew pottery has lead. He must have been very good if some of his pieces ended up at the Metropolitan.Malke 2010 (talk) 01:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

He and his brothers were just early, and his work is mostly commercial and not exquisite compared to later American producers. Beautiful was not the goal at first. They are primarily remembered for their early influence on the American industry. But I have just found out that yes there was one piece on display in the Met in the 1980s when someone I know visited, in a room with the Tiffany glass and all that. But interestingly it was an early simple utilitarian "historical" piece. I base my statement on the children on a factory photograph I have seen with everyone gathered together, in which there are a number, and then a surviving recipe for a glaze containing lead. So surely they came into some contact with it. Anyway his descendants, at least the ones I know, are not the best people, are nobodies and have no money left. I almost didn't ask the person because she's not nice. DinDraithou (talk) 02:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I got back an email from Metropolitan Museum of Art. They don't have Edwin Bennett anywhere in the place. We could email Smithsonian and ask for more information about him. The Smithsonian is just the type of place to know everything.Malke 2010 (talk) 23:35, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah they just had that one piece then and I have read that they have been getting rid of a lot of this and that over the last years. Smithsonian still has several boxes of the company files, which I came across catalogued when googling, but I don't know about pieces anymore. They do keep lots and lots and lots of stuff though. The Maryland Historical Society exhibition was for the most part the hoard of distant cousins of my unpleasant "relation".

But Malke! You're so nice, but I'm just not interested! And I never really was. Really I regret creating that article for them but was feeling generous at the time. He shouldn't have an article, so please don't waste your time with it! I may go on and on here, because I like going on and on sometimes (currenly I have a sickeningly dull life), but I have no intention of doing a thing more with that article.

Incidentally, I'm actually moving to New York City, to Manhattan, hopefully before the end of next year. DinDraithou (talk) 00:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Good for you. I love to visit New York. Be careful of the bed bugs there. I think the article was a good idea because somebody somewhere might Google the guy and now it's here on Wikipedia. I don't think it can really be added to unless we can get hold of some of photos/illustrations of his work, etc. But good job putting it up. :) Malke 2010 (talk) 15:30, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm glad you reminded me about the bed bugs because I remember reading a story now but had forgotten it. I've been making other preparations, like ordering a year of New York magazine last spring, and today I'm on ebay bidding for the sexiest vintage Perfecto (a leather jacket) there currently is on the site (that isn't absurdly priced). Next will come the Emporio Armani and Dolce & Gabbana (I'll be buying last year's from Yoox) for the pants and shirts. I don't really know what I'm doing but I hope it will be obvious I've made an effort. DinDraithou (talk) 15:56, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Kingdom of Desmond

The lead says that it was a kingdom and an earldom. It names the kingdom's rulers and they have their category. Why should the earldom's rulers not be named and have their category? Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Earl of Desmond. Kingdom of Desmond needs serious work. DinDraithou (talk) 04:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Mor Ui Thuathail

Shouldn't she be Mor Ni Thuathail? She was the daughter of, not the wife of. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Query #2: why is Raymond FitzGerald listed in the FitzGerald dynasty? He had no legitimate heirs so how could he found a dynasty? Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:31, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

He was a grandson of Gerald de Windsor. Concerning Queen Mor I find Ui Thuathail googling her, not Ni Thuathail. These forms change and I'm not quite sure what the tradition is here. Mor ingen Muirchertaig would be a correct alternative. DinDraithou (talk) 22:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)