User talk:Childrenandart

Welcome!

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Happy editing! 331dot (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Christoper Fairbanks moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Michael Christoper Fairbanks, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. ... discospinster _talk 00:23, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi disco,

thanks for the feedback. May I ask a couple of questions before I dig into editing this page?

1: the reliable sources.. just so I understand. articles written by MC Fairbanks are not considered this because they are written by him? so I need to find more things that either feature him or are about him. is this correct?

2: is there too much other information? like about his house or other companies etc? should this be reduced also?

thanks much Childrenandart (talk) 15:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

hi again,

ok I am trying to figure out exactly what doesn't work. This is my first contributed page so forgive my confusion. are the portions that were separated to be removed? is it only those portions that are not working and the rest is fine?

I was googling and saw that there are companies that one can pay to write and do the wiki pages for you. are these accepted by you? I was under the impression it was not allowed.

thanks for the help Childrenandart (talk) 15:54, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Michael Christoper Fairbanks (January 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by TheChunky were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Michael Christoper Fairbanks and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 04:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Childrenandart! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! ❯❯❯ Chunky aka Al Kashmiri (✍️) 04:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Michael Fairbanks

Hello, Childrenandart. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Michael Fairbanks, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 14:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks (August 5)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by CFA was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

The Boston Globe article is good, but there doesn't seem to be much outside of that. The article doesn't have to list everything the subject has ever done, and it ends up looking like a résumé if it does.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

C F A 💬 16:25, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Childrenandart. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for article subjects for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template)—don't forget to give details of reliable sources supporting your suggestions;
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest § How to disclose a COI);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam § External link spamming);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. C F A 💬 15:08, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

hi,

the tony award is directly given to Marylee Fairbanks. we are happy to send a photograph of the actual tony award with her name on it if that is helpful.

secondly, i can give the names of several people listed on wikipedia pages who have recieved TONY AWARDS for being co-producers. this was sufficient for them so i am curious why it is insufficient for M. Fairbanks?

for example Lachanze was awarded a tony award for being co-pro on the team of Kimberly akibo, topdog/ uderdog and outsiders. this is listed on her page.

another expample is Debra Black, Broadway producer who has been nominated for ten Tony Awards, winning two in the Tony Award for Best Play category. she was a co-producer and considered tony award winning.

Iliana Glazer was a co-producer on A Strange Loop. listed on wiki as Tony Award winning producer.

I am happy to find more examples if this is helpful.

as i mentioned the additional emerson article states directly that MF is the recipient of the tony Award.

Please let me know what additional information you would like as evidence of the Tony Award

Thank you Childrenandart (talk) 15:41, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. I've said multiple times already that the award does not count towards notability. I gave you a run down of what does on my talk page. Please read through that before resubmitting. An award is not what makes someone eligible for an article on Wikipedia; rather, it's significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Wikipedia, unfortunately, has many low-quality articles because it is a volunteer project. We don't need even more. If you believe an article does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines, you are free to nominate it for deletion, but it will have zero impact on your draft.

Again, you have completely ignored the conflict of interest notice above and on my talk page. Who is "we"? Your draft will not be considered until you appropriately disclose your COI. Please respond to this message stating how you know the subjects of your drafts. Thank you. C F A 💬 15:53, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

there is no conflict of interest. i am a fan of the podcast and there is not a conflict. i am allowed to upload a page am i not? Childrenandart (talk) 18:59, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You clearly aren't "just a fan" because you said we are happy to send a photograph, implying you have access to the award and can take a picture. Who is "we"? No, you are not allowed to "upload" the page until you disclose your conflict of interest and show that the subject meets Wikipedia's strict notability guidelines. C F A 💬 19:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am a follower of the podcast and am Ms. Fairbanks knows I am submitting on her behalf. I am sure she would happily send whatever I need to get her page up.

I assume most people know when someone is putting up a wiki page for them. id ike to speak with another editor if thats possible Childrenandart (talk) 19:08, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... And there you go. You do have a conflict of interest. Please follow the instructions on this page in order to disclose it appropriately. The Teahouse and the AfC help desk are always open if you have any questions. C F A 💬 19:10, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

no I am not connected. I am a listener of the podcast and a fan. I started the page for her and do not know her personally. I wrote to her and asked if I could start a page for her and she said "sure". This is not a conflict of interest. I wrote to her via her podcast website. a site where anyone ca contact her. Childrenandart (talk) 19:41, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who is "we" then? C F A 💬 19:43, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am writing for a third party moderator to help with this. you clearly dont want to be of any help and I think we need another opinion. Childrenandart (talk) 19:42, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean by "moderator" but you are welcome to ask at the AfC help desk or at the Teahouse for further opinion. C F A 💬 19:44, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I am another editor. I suggest that you do the work requested in the decline notice, and resubmit when you have done so. Arguing is unlikely to achieve anything except a nasty taste in your mouth. Doing what you are asked to do is likely, assuming the subject to be notable, to lead to acceptance. Be aware that reviews are an iterative process. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:28, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, there is no concept of moderator here. We do have Administrators, bureaucrats, Stewards, but their job is to clean up messes, not to get involved in arguments about notability.

There is work to do; please do it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

id ike to find another editor to work with if possible and it seems a lot of people think CFA is difficult so reporting is a good thing to do Childrenandart (talk) 20:34, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

idid the editing requested.. its really just a difference of opinion about what makes someone "noteworthy". cfa thinks one thing and I think another. so now I am being accused of conflict of interest. which seems to be CFA's way of trying to shut down the discussion Childrenandart (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In a way it is a difference of opinion, but more correctly it is a difference of interpretation of policies. Yet policies are strict. WP:BIO is one such strict policy.

No-one will look at the draft unless you resubmit it for further review. Once you are happy that you have done all that you need to do please resubmit it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:47, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will work on the draft but id like to point out..this is what wiki defines as noteworthy

1:The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times; or

The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field; o

The person has just won the Tony Award. and has a world wide podcast abut theater that is in its fourth season with iHeart radio and more than 100 episodes.

I will upload more press and YouTube interviews but it seems to me that winning a Tony Award is pretty notable. Producers receive the Tony when a show wins best musical. It is not easy to get on a producer roster but according to CFA it's not good enough because they are among ten other people. It makes absolutely no sense Childrenandart (talk) 21:03, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube is a deprecated source. It has no oversight and is user generated. Any user generated sources are deprecated.

When you have submitted your draft another reviewer will review it. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is not what Wikipedia "defines as notable". Again, I've said this to you many times. The main guideline for notability is the General Notability Guideline, which requires significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. There are other overrides, like for academics or for populated places, but none of those apply here.

WP:ANYBIO points out that many people are likely to be notable if they meet the criteria (i.e. there is likely significant coverage in independent, reliable sources). Even if this person satisfied criteria #1, there is still only one independent source that offers significant coverage of the subject, which is why I declined your draft. She doesn't, as I've said, meet WP:ANYBIO #1, though, because the award was not given to her, it was given to a play she produced. As a relevant example, Danya Taymor won the Tony Award for Best Direction of a Musical for The Outsiders. She meets WP:ANYBIO #1.

There's little reason to keep stating the same points over and over again. You can resubmit it, and another reviewer will take a look. Please consider carefully reading through the messages I have left you so you aren't stuck in the same place in a few weeks. C F A 💬 21:23, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i will add more sties and request that another editor reviews Childrenandart (talk) 21:32, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and BTW. what i copied and pasted above about what makes a person noteable is directly from wikipedia Childrenandart (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to point out your example of using Danya Taymor as the award actually goes to her. What you do not understand is that it takes far more people to raise money and run a show as a producer than it does for one person to do one role. If you are suggesting that a Tony award that goes to a producer it means less than a Tony award that goes to a single performer you are incorrect. A Tony award is a Tony award and yes producers get an individual Tony award even though they are part of the group. They are part of a group because it takes millions of dollars to raise enough money to put a show on Broadway that's why you have lots of producers for each show. Do your research look around at shows that have one it's not one producer of the gets one Tony it's the entire group of producers who have put their hard work into getting a show on his feet and on Broadway that win the Tony. So to compare it to one person who does one role Childrenandart (talk) 21:38, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

so if you try to compare it to an award given to one person for doing one roll is not an adequate comparison. Childrenandart (talk) 21:39, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks (August 7)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Not clear that she won the Tony Award herself there were a LARGE number of producers?

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 21:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

what you do not understand is the NO broadway show EVER gets produced on its own. YES there must be several producers because in order to raise the required money and get the required theater it requires LOTS OF PRODUCERS. to suggest that just because there are many it makes the Tony Award insignificant is absurd. NO SHOW ever got produced without many co-producers.

Secondly, it is lear that she won the TONY.. if you read the Emerson article they asked her "how she feels about winning the Tony".

there are mentions in the Boston globe, variety, clips from news programs. I am unsure exactly what else you need to prove that this person won the Tony Award. it only shows that you dont know the process of building a broadway show. Childrenandart (talk) 21:06, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is it helpful if I highlight these mentions on the articles and post them here for you? Childrenandart (talk) 21:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

here is the list of 30 or so leading producers listed at playbill when they announced the Tony award The Outsiders is produced by The Araca Group, American Zoetrope, Olympus Theatricals, Sue Gilad & Larry Rogowsky, Angelina Jolie, Betsy Dollinger, Jonathan & Michelle Clay, Cristina Marie Vicenzio, The Schubert Organization, LaChanze & Marylee Fairbanks, Debra Martin Chase, Sony Music Masterworks, Jamestown Revival Theater, Hennifer & Jonathan Allan Soros, Tanninger Entertainment, Tamlyn Brooke Shusterman, Geffen Playhouse/Howard Tenenbaum/Linda B. Rubin, Kevin Ryan, Mistry Theatrical Ventures, Galt & Irvin Productions, Tulsa Clarks, Paul Liljenquist, Bob & Claire Patterson, and Voltron Global Media.

and here is the link to the link to playbill. I also placed this within the article itself. https://playbill.com/article/the-outsiders-wins-best-musical-at-the-2024-tony-awards Childrenandart (talk) 22:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Outsiders musical won the "Best Musical Tony Award" NOT the producers. Theroadislong (talk) 23:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

if a musical wins best musical ....then it the producers that win the award. ON WIKIPEDIA. here is how you describe who exactly wins a Tony when a show wins best musical.

this is from your own page

Tony Award for Best Musical

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tony Award for

Best Musical

Awarded for

Best Musical

Location

New York City

Presented by

American Theatre Wing, The Broadway League

Currently held by

The Outsiders (2024)

Website

TonyAwards.com

The Tony Award for Best Musical is given annually to the best new Broadway musical, as determined by Tony Award voters. The award is one of the ceremony's longest-standing awards, having been presented each year since 1949. The award goes to the producers of the winning musical. A musical is eligible for consideration in a given year if it has not previously been produced on Broadway and is not "determined... to be a 'classic' or in the historical or popular repertoire", otherwise it may be considered for Best Revival of a Musical. Childrenandart (talk) 02:22, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So maybe we can say she was one of 79 producers to win the award? Theroadislong (talk) 02:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sure thats fine.. I am happy to add that to the page.

I also added the disclosure that you wanted at the top.

what else would you like me to add? Childrenandart (talk) 02:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

if we do add 79 producers you should probably re-write the way wikipedia has defined who gets the Tony award for best musical and likely go into several pages and add the number of producers on each show that has had the honor of winning.

But, if you are serious I will add that to the page. or were you being sarcastic? Childrenandart (talk) 02:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're refusing to get the point here. Multiple editors have already told you why your draft was declined. Continuing to argue is just going to make reviewers less likely to touch your draft in the future because they won't want to deal with this. I suggest just reading through the comments that have been left for you and actually trying to improve from there, instead of pointlessly restating the same things over and over again. C F A 💬 02:38, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 21:04, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

August 2024

Please stop. If you continue to assume bad faith when dealing with other editors, as you did at User talk:CFA, you may be blocked from editing. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia. Theroadislong (talk) 21:45, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

what do you mean? I am not assuming bad faith, honestly, I am trying to give you what you need. I am trying to explain the role of a producer and why there are so many of them. It takes up to ten years and 25 million dollars to produce a show from stat to Broadway. The theater community gives each producer a Tony if a show wins because the road is so long and they stand to lose a lot of money. I have done each edit asked and I am trying to add the disclaimer at the top for you as you asked. Childrenandart (talk) 21:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At User talk:CFA you said "its good to report this person because if enough reports of their being difficult get to the leaders then changes can be made" that was a bad faith comment. Theroadislong (talk) 22:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. then I apologize for that bad faith comment. It was made in frustration when the person I was dealing with wouldn't listen or try and understand my point. It was made along side another person who was also frustrated in dealing with this particular editor. I am curious.. how does one become the person who decided that an article is relevant or not? for example, how do I get to edit other peoples work and decide these things? Childrenandart (talk) 22:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing to harass users like you did here [1] is likely to lead to a block. Theroadislong (talk) 16:44, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's harassment policy, as you did at User talk:CFA, you may be blocked from editing. Wikipedia aims to provide a safe environment for its collaborators, and harassing other users potentially compromises that safe environment. Theroadislong (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks (October 10)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by AlphaBetaGamma were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

It is considered disruptive to persistently resubmit drafts to AfC without any improvements. This can lead to the draft being rejected, which means the draft will not be considered further.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Marylee Graffeo Fairbanks and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:36, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]