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Talk:Flag of Rwanda#File:Presidential Standard of Rwanda.svg

Please comment on the seal being forced into this page. Alarbus (talk) 03:35, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


Rwanda and stuff

Sorry for not commenting on Rwanda before you took it to FAC, it was on my list, but I didn't have time to get around to it. I'll do my best to go over in the FAC before it closes, hopefully with a pass this time. Any comment on this IP post? Interesting if true. CMD (talk) 00:08, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

...and let me now be the first to congratulate you. You've set a new bar for country articles. CMD (talk) 17:45, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much, CMD! Glad it's finally made it, it's been a bit of a marathon but good fun anyway. And thanks for all your help in the original peer review and the FACs. Hope you have similar joy with Malaysia in the not too distant future. I'll try to help out if I can although I may also have a bit of a mini Wiki break now... Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 19:30, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Congrats on the FA!

Well done bringing your Rwanda article to FA. Thank you so much for all your hard work in increasing the coverage of Rwandan topics on WP and bringing them up to higher standards of quality. I also admire the cool, constructive way you handled some of the criticisms and opposition that was raised in the FAC process. Really nice work - I look forward to reading more of your good WP work on Rwanda topics in the future. - Lemurbaby (talk) 16:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Flag of Rwanda issue

Please visit the Flag of Rwanda talkpage for proof that the file I added is a presidential standard. Fry1989 eh? 20:01, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

National parks of Rwanda

FYI, just started this article. I think the National parks of Canada is a good model. Feel free to add if you have the time. Lemurbaby (talk) 04:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Morfa Mawddach

The article Morfa Mawddach has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

I can find no evidence that a village of this name exists. It does not appear on OS maps (according to which the nearest village to Morfa Mawddach railway station is named Ynysgyffylog). "Morfa Mawddach" is Welsh for "Mawddach Marsh", and the train station appears to have been named for a topographic feature rather than a human settlement. This appears to fail WP:V.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Deor (talk) 16:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move of Côte d'Ivoire

There is currently a discussion on moving the article Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast. You are being notified since you participated in a previous discussion on this topic. Please join the discussion here if you are interested. TDL (talk) 02:30, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Rwanda

This is a note to let the main editors of Rwanda know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on July 1, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/July 1, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

A photograph of northwestern Rwanda

Rwanda is a country in central and eastern Africa located a few degrees south of the Equator, bordered by Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. All of Rwanda is at high elevation, with a geography dominated by mountains in the west, savanna in the east, and numerous lakes throughout the country. The climate is temperate. The predominantly rural population of 11.7 million people forms three main groups: the Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa. After Rwanda was first settled by hunter-gatherers in the Stone and Iron Ages, the population coalesced into clans and then into a Tutsi-led kingdom. It was colonised by Europeans in the 19th century and gained independence from Belgium on 1 July 1962 after a Hutu revolt led to massacres of Tutsis and the establishment of a Hutu-dominated republic. In 1990 the Tutsi-led Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF) launched a civil war, which was followed by the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, in which Hutu extremists killed an estimated 500,000 to 1 million Tutsi and moderate Hutu but were ultimately defeated by the RPF. The economy suffered during the genocide, but has since strengthened and depends heavily on subsistence agriculture. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Precious

Rwanda
Thank you for sharing your intimate knowledge about Rwanda, Africa, for getting us closer in news (Amakuru) and images to its nature, culture and people, - you are an awesome Wikipedian! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations from me as well on the main page appearance. Nick-D (talk) 10:45, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks guys! I almost missed it as I've been off wiki for a while, but just caught sight of it with a few hours remaining. Nice for the article to get its day of fame. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:13, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Please please please help with the Paul Kagame article

The Paul Kagame article is such a total mess and needs someone to take a weed whacker to it to ensure it meets WP standards of neutrality for living persons biographies. I'm buried under Mada projects and work in the real world here in Rwanda, but I'm hopeful you might have some time to look at it over the next couple of months. Lemurbaby (talk) 09:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Lemurbaby, I agree with you - the PK article has been a mess for many years now which isn't really a good thing for the Rwanda space in general. I've always slightly shied away from getting involved, due to the difficulty of writing about Rwandan political issues. There's such a divide between the official view within Rwanda and the apparent view of the outside world (particularly the human rights organisations) that it's difficult to strike a middle ground.
I'm overseas at the moment (until beginning of October) and don't have access to my books about Rwanda so can't do a complete job (Shake Hands with the Devil in particular has a lot of good material about Kagame during the genocide), but will maybe see if I can tidy up some of the stuff that is there based on newspaper and online sources. My time availability is a bit unpredictable, I may find I have a lot of time available or I may not.
Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:48, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
The Cleanup Barnstar
Thanks for all your work on the Paul Kagame article. It's looking loads better already. Once you're done and if you feel like putting it up for GA, I'd be happy to review it. Lemurbaby (talk) 18:04, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the star! I've been kind of working through in a chronological fashion so the article reads OK down to a certain point (currently April 1994) and then is still gunk below that. It's been quite interesting as I didn't really know a lot of that early life stuff. I did have at the back of my mind that it might eventually be potential GA material so I'll certainly keep your offer in mind. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 20:57, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
The article is looking great! Nice work on the vice presidential period. I think the tone and balance are good. You're doing a great job presenting multiple sides to the narrative in a way I think is very objective and informative. What's your tie to Rwanda, btw? Were you a Peace Corps volunteer here? Did you do some research into the Genocide? (it seems genocide related topics are the ones best covered on WP and I'm guessing you've been a contributor to those.) - Lemurbaby (talk) 10:13, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

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Order of merit listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Order of merit. Since you had some involvement with the Order of merit redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). The Theosophist (talk) 17:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Amakuru. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 January 7.
Message added 11:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Nyatura

Hi Amakuru, I have written an article about the congolese armed group Nyatura (discussion page) in the German Wikipedia. The name seems to be Kinyarwanda – could you help us with translating it? I have found quite different translations in different sources: “erase and uproot the so-called natives”, “ecrasons et déracinons les populations dites autochtones” (surprisingly long and complex translations for four syllables, is that really correct?), French “frappe” and German “harter Druck” (means “strong pressure”). Do you have an explanation? Thanks in advance! --Chricho ∀ (talk) 17:31, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

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Thanks!  — Amakuru (talk) 09:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

FAC and Rwanda topics

Hi Amakuru, thanks again for reviewing the Rakoto Frah article. I've responded to your most recent comments. I also wanted to let you know I've decided to try to increase and expand Rwanda topics on WP before I leave here in August (sad!). My short list is below, and I'd appreciate you pointing out any other topics you think are important to add/expand but may not have time for yourself. Maybe between the two of us we can work through some of them this year.

National parks of Rwanda, Gihanga, Ndori, Music of Rwanda, Intore, Mushanana, Kitoko, King James (singer), Kigwa, Nyiginya kingdom, Dynastic drum (African Great Lakes region), Umuganura, Bakwezi, Umuganda, Cattle in the African Great Lakes cultures, Cuisine of Rwanda
- Lemurbaby (talk) 06:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Lemurbaby, thanks for the message.
I've looked over Rakoto Frah again and all looks great so I've added my support vote - hope it makes it over the line!
As for Rwanda those all look like great topics to tackle. If there's anything I can assist with on those let me know. As you probably know I'm slowly working away on Paul Kagame which is getting closer to completion; there's still some work to do on the presidency section and to decide something about the last two sections ("human rights" and "accolades"), I'm tempted to merge the two into some kind of "Personality and public image" section similar to the one at Richard Nixon.
Beyond that getting a quantity of articles up to reasonable (not necessarily GA or FA) standard seems a good approach. I was thinking of making some kind of portal, subdividing the relevant topics into categories (history, politics, economy, demographics etc) as a one stop shop for what to work on. Completely off the top of my head the more important things would be:

Plus a lot more! But anyway, it would be great to do some collaboration as you say - I've been a bit of a lone force on the Rwanda front for some time. All the best  — Amakuru (talk) 17:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

FAC

Hello sir, we would like your suggestions on the fac. Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Priyanka Chopra/archive1. Please , review it and represent your thoughts. Thank You.Prashant  ✉  18:42, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Prashant
Thank you for your request and since you ask, I'll see if I have time to look at the article in the next few days. However, from a quick look at the FAC as it stands there is a question mark over the stability of the article. As you probably know, according to WP:FA Criteria conditoin 1e, stability is a necessary condition for FA status. It won't really be worth my while looking it over if it will be completely different looking the next day! But if it looks more stable in the next few days then that's fine. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

MIDIMAR

Hi! Thanks for starting the article on MIDIMAR. One of the things I did was add where the HQ was, and also add the French name (French is declining in Rwanda but French is still an official language as of writing). Also there will be a stub in French about this agency. For other Rwandan government agencies it may help to add the French names and/or make sure there are articles about them in French and in Kinyarwanda (if not, add them to request lists). Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 08:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey WhisperToMe, thanks for the message. I hope to eventually expand some of this content a bit, get a short article about every ministry and minsiter in Rwanda. SO much to do and so little time though! Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:46, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

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List of awards and honours bestowed upon Paul Kagame (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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National Museum of Rwanda - Name change?

Hi! After seeing http://www.museum.gov.rw/our-museums/ethnographic.html - Does this mean the name changed to the ethnographic museum?

Did they specify the new names in French and Kinyarwanda?

WhisperToMe (talk) 17:15, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, yes it does appear that way. Even the sign on the outside of the building says "Ethnographic museum". It is the first time I heard about it! I have no idea whether the French and Kinyarwanda names have changed accordingly, that website doesn't seem to have multilingualism unlike others...  — Amakuru (talk) 22:31, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, ok. I moved the article accordingly. The article http://www.izuba.org.rw/print_i-630-a-27063.izuba mentions "Inzu ndangamurage" or "Inzu ndangamurage iri iHuye" (the second seems to add "in Huye") which seems to be the Kinyarwanda WhisperToMe (talk) 08:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Paul Kagame references

Hi Amakuru. I think it could be helpful to integrate your references into your footnotes, to save readers an extra step in finding the full details of your citations. It would also allow readers to hover over the footnote number superscript while reading the article and see the full reference information rather than just the author and the year. Given that you have a broad array of references (which is very good!), that would probably be quite a bit of work, but it would help strengthen the article. Ashleyleia (talk) 14:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ashleyleia. I think the referencing style is OK - I have used the Shortened footnotes style, in which everything is cited in short form against the actual text, with the long references listed below. The reason for that is that a large number, e.g. Kinzer 2008, Prunier 1999 etc. are just different pages from the same book and it doesn't seem right to list the full details of the book in every case. Each short link has a hyperlink directly through to the long link so although it's one more step needed to get to the ref, there's no manual look up needed. Obviously this system makes less sense for newspaper articles but I've followed it for everything, just because it means the citation list can be formatted into narrow columns (a mixture of short refs and longer refs would require much wider columns and hence take up more vertical room in the article).
I hope that makes some sense! Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it does. Sorry, I should have thought of that before making my comment. Ashleyleia (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

PK article

You've done an amazing job on this article. It looks like it's just about done. Let me know when you're ready for a second pair of eyes on it. BTW I only have 3 months left in Rwanda so please let me know if there is anything in particular you'd like me to get photos of, or information you'd like me to try to find. I'm thinking next year is the 20th anniversary of the genocide, and it would be cool to have the genocide article on the main page on April 7, and then maybe the PK article up on July 4 this year (Rwandan Liberation Day). Lemurbaby (talk) 19:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Lemurbaby and thanks for your message. I think the PK article is pretty much complete other than a few minor grammar tweaks, and any other suggestions for things that are missing that people may come up with. It would therefore be great if you could get a pair of eyes on it at this stage. I've just listed it for GA nominations, to get the ball rolling on that process; I've never been involved in GAN before so don't know the details of the procedure but if you could do that review as part of your help on it that would be great. I've just noticed that the "China" section is only two sentences at the moment and I could probably write something about that, but probably it's not needed for GA (completeness isn't one of the major criteria if I recall correctly) so have some leisure to do that.
I like the sound of your main page aims as well. I keep telling myself I'll do a small project (like my previous Maraba coffee one) but that said there's nothing like getting stuck into the big ones, and I think Rwandan Genocide is probably the most viewed Rwanda related article of all if I'm not mistaken. It was already in a vaguely OK state the last time I looked so it might be a slightly different kind of challenge from the usual wholesale rewriting I've been engaged in. As for PK, I'm not sure how much chance we have to get it up to FA status by early July. You never know I guess!
I'll give a bit more thought to the photo issue - strange that you're leaving soon, how time flies! Unfortunately the things that I really want are archives and documents relating to the history and details of policies, buildings, infrastructure, towns and cities etc. to use as references for articles. I'm sure those things exist somewhere but they're probably buried deep in a ministry and likely in Kinyarwanda so not too much chance of getting access to them!
Thanks again and look forward to hearing from you on PK.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Hey, this is Lemurbaby (not logged in). Sorry I didn't see your reply here! Thanks for pinging me on my talk page. I'll happily review the PK article this weekend. Last I looked, it looked really excellent, and honestly not far from FA already. I think we can get it to the FA level in the GA review and then nominate it directly for FA to see how that goes. As far as the archives, I'm happy to try to track down anything you want me to find. Why don't you send me a wishlist? I love doing archival research and I'm sure I'd have no problem getting into there to find the docs you want. They may be in French rather than Kinyarwanda, and I'm fluent in that (not sure if you are) so I can help with translation if needs be. Otherwise I can try to take photos or scans of everything and send them to you for your reference. Send a "wish list" of topics that interest you (to my personal email) and I'll do what I can. - Lemurbaby — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.183.71.67 (talk) 13:36, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I've passed the GA review for Paul Kagame. There are four references that are not linked to their anchors - I've identified them in the review. It would be great if you could just make that final fix when you have the chance. Lemurbaby (talk) 04:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
The PK article is on FA - great! I'll give it my support once that China section is expanded a bit. I think I exhausted whatever constructive criticism I could offer in the GA since I applied FA standards in reviewing it. I'll reflect on the China issue and see if I can find some resources that might help expand that section. Actually, did you include anything about Agacyiru (sp?) Agaciro - the "development fund" the GoR raised when donors started suspending aid due to the situation in East DRC? It would make sense to tie that in to a broader discussion of relations with donors and Rwanda's desire to free itself from that kind of support. As an aside, if you have the time to do a GA review of my article on an equally contentious head of state, Andry Rajoelina, I'd welcome your comments. It's not as long as yours since there are far fewer sources on Rajoelina and he's lived a shorter and relatively less eventful life, but I'm sure it could benefit from some expansions and a second set of critical eyes on it. Lemurbaby (talk) 04:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
The Barnstar of Diligence
For all your hard work on getting the article on Paul Kagame to GA, and for everything you do to improve coverage of Rwanda on WP. Way to go! Lemurbaby (talk) 04:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Rwanda article categories

Yesterday I finished assigning class and importance to all the articles in the Madagascar WP project, and then just afterward I had a look at those in the Rwanda project. There are as many categories as there are articles (about 400 each!). I'm thinking the categories are only useful when they help to cluster together similar articles, and until more articles are written by eventual contributors who collectively will be able to do more than you or I (and I'm working on recruiting some here in Rwanda before I go!!), these categories could benefit from paring back. Would you have a quick look at them here and tell me if you'd be comfortable with me doing a pruning job? - Lemurbaby (talk) 03:41, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Lemurbaby that's absolutely fine by me. As you say, the categories need to be useful to be worth having. I'm probably guilty for a few of them myself. I tend to see categories elsewhere in the Wiki, for example Category:Office buildings in Atlanta, Georgia and assume that means we need an equivalent category Category:Office buildings in Kigali. In an ideal world that would be the case, but we clealy don't have anywhere near enough coverage to justify that at present! Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 08:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

KCT

Nice work on the Kigali City Tower article! As far as "taller building", I think the confusion probably stems from the fact that the Pension Plaza (humorously unoriginal name) sits at a higher altitude than KCT, and also has a radio tower on top that some might be factoring into the equation, although I believe KCT has many more floors. You'd probably want to modify the piece about the cinema - it hasn't opened yet. We're all chomping at the bit to see Iron Man 3 there, and the owner swears it will open next weekend, but he's been promising it would open "in a week" every week for the past month. They've done a couple of private screenings in the 5D theater and some screenings of regional African films in the regular theaters for friends and press, but it's not yet open to the public. Lemurbaby (talk) 04:19, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Update - the cinema opened last night. I saw Iron Man 3 in 3D and it was fabulous. The cinema was beyond international standards - beautiful architecture, newest technology, comfortable seats, good food (hot dogs, samosas, cake, mini pizzas, popcorn, no candy though!), sodas (no beer), the 3D was perfect... all that for 4500 Rwandan francs. Four screens; the one I was at had about 250 seats I think, all full. It was amazing. Lemurbaby (talk) 05:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Kigali City Tower

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

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Talkback

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FA-nomination Paul Kagame

Hello Amakuru, did you see my two, albeit minor, points about the article's images? No hurry, but it would be great, if you could briefly address them when you got some time. GermanJoe (talk) 06:53, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Joe, I did indeed see them. Apologies it's on my to do list - I ha e already updated the categories for the Obamas image so it's just the info in the other photo needs d. I think it's on my old laptop so I need to dig that out and find out when I took and cropped that image. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 08:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Congrats on the FA for Paul Kagame! Your contributions here are really top quality. WP (and Rwanda!) is lucky to have you on here. Lemurbaby (talk) 11:24, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks User:Lemurbaby - I was pleased in the end that it went through without too much hassle. Thanks again for your extremely helpful feedback and criticisms! Time for me to start thinking of the next big project...  — Amakuru (talk) 13:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for your work on the RM backlog! The assistance of qualified editors like you is greatly appreciated, and helps the whole project. --BDD (talk) 19:00, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, BDD! It's good to get an award from am eminent editor such as yourself. I recently finished my third featured article (at Paul Kagame) so thought I'd get stuck into something a bit different for a while before starting a new project. I've always been quite a fan of WP:RM - it gets far less press than WP:AfD, but I don't think it's significantly less important.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:04, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. And thanks for the kind words. --BDD (talk) 19:10, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

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Main Page appearance: Paul Kagame

This is a note to let the main editors of Paul Kagame know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on July 23, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or one of his delegates (Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), Gimmetoo (talk · contribs), and Bencherlite (talk · contribs)), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/July 23, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Paul Kagame

Paul Kagame (born 1957) has been President of Rwanda since 2000. Born to a Tutsi family in southern Rwanda, he grew up in Uganda after the Rwandan Revolution ended centuries of Tutsi political dominance. He joined the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), which invaded Rwanda in 1990, taking control after the death of Fred Rwigyema. By 1993, the RPF controlled significant territory in Rwanda and a ceasefire was negotiated. The assassination of Rwandan President Habyarimana in 1994 was the starting point of the Rwandan Genocide, in which Hutu extremists killed an estimated 500,000 to 1 million Tutsi and moderate Hutu. Kagame resumed the civil war, and ended the genocide with a military victory. During his vice presidency, Kagame controlled the national army and maintained law and order. Many RPF soldiers carried out retribution killings; it is disputed whether Kagame organised these or was merely powerless to stop them. As president, Kagame has prioritised national development, and the country is developing strongly on key indicators including health care and education. He is popular in Rwanda and with some foreign observers; however, human rights groups accuse him of political repression. (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Center for Environmental Technology

The article Center for Environmental Technology has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unremarkable organisation

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Image discussion at article 17 Mile Drive

A discussion is underway about images on an article you have contributed to. Please help find a consensus for the article stub at: Talk:17-Mile Drive#17 Mile Drive info box and section images replacement.--Amadscientist (talk) 06:01, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Amakuru. You have new messages at MrMoustacheMM's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

re-open RM at Rochester, NY metropolitan area?

Hello,

I noticed that you closed the requested move at Rochester, New York metropolitan area as a non-admin closure. But I think that you didn't explain your closure very well given that the requested move was contested. I don't think non admins are supposed to make contested closures of moves. There's an ongoing discussion here about the underlying topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Do_article_titles_that_include_proper_names_need_to_follow_standard_grammatical_rules.3F

Would you care to reopen the requested move? I think that even leaving aside the question of whether it is ordinarily proper to place a comma after a state being used as a disambiguator in an article title, the current title of the rochester article is particularly bad because it suggests that Rochester is part of the New York metropolitan area, which of course isn't the case. Otherwise, perhaps I will see you at a move review.AgnosticAphid talk 03:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi AgnosticAphid, and thanks for your message.
From my reading of Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure, the general rules are:
  • The consensus or lack of consensus is clear after a full listing period (seven days).
  • No history merge or history swap is necessary.
  • There are no more than a few associated subpages that need to be moved along with the move of the page under discussion, such as voluminous talk page archives. (Administrators have the ability to move up to 100 pages in a single click.)
As far as I can tell all of these three conditions are met. From the four votes cast, as far as I could tell there was a clear lack of consensus, the vote had been active for more than seven days (and also the discussion had been inactive for around two days). I think the arguments made on both sides are valid - both titles have their justifications - so in my mind there's no reason to discount either side as counter policy. If an admin had closed it, I can't see any reason that they would have reached a different conclusion on consensus. I suppose the only question is whether it should have been relisted for a further week, but I took the view that the four interested parties was enough to merit a closure.
I've put a note on the user page of User:BDD, an admin who seems quite involved in the WP:RM process, to get his or her advice on this matter. At the moment, however, I'm not inclined to change my closure, for the reasons outlined above. If you wish to take it to a move review, then please go ahead and we'll see what people say there. I'm obviously keen to learn proper policy in regard to this, so that I can be of use to the project in closing moves fairly in future. Many thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 19:17, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. I still think it's kind of silly to close something after a week when only 4 people have participated on the basis that there's no consensus because those 4 people are equally divided, especially as a non-admin. There's no deadline; perhaps if it had been open a while with no resolution a non-admin closure would be warranted but that really wasn't the case. What's the harm in waiting for more input to see whether an actual decision could be made which would more legitimately resolve the issue? That being said, perhaps this krazy series of events is what prompted the wider discussion I referenced above. AgnosticAphid talk 18:26, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Since my opinion has been solicited, here it is: a no consensus close is entirely appropriate, as the RM had run for the whole listing period and the participating editors were evenly divided on the question. Personally, I would've relisted given the low participation, but there's nothing at all wrong with closers erring on the side of reducing the backlog. While it's technically correct to say that there is no deadline on an RM, they really are designed to close after a week, in theory. The backlog has been pretty substantial most of this year so far, but that's not always the case, and RM isn't designed to work that way. I would strongly recommend against opening an MRV, which would not be a good use of editor time in this case. It would be much smarter to open an RfC, with their longer 30-day default listing, on the commas in metropolitan area articles, and subsequently apply that consensus as appropriate to articles. --BDD (talk) 02:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
    OK, thanks for your input and advice! I guess I will look to relist in similar circumstances in future then. But as you say, no point reopening now, and it seems like the RfC would be the way forward to get some closure on the whole issue. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 09:10, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
    This is way tardy, and I read this a long time ago, but just to give some closure on this whole thing I wanted to say, thanks for being polite about this even though I was a bit annoying insofar as I don't really know the rules about requested moves as well as the two of you, obviously. I didnt think about the RM backlog and I guess if we are soliciting non-admins to deal with it then it does make sense to work on things like this that were obviously no consensus. I still think perhaps a relisting wouldve been in order, but I didnt even know that it was supposed to be closed in 7 days and not closing it was a formal decision to be made. It was also kind of you to solicit another opinion and not be dismissive. Anyways, thanks. AgnosticAphid talk 17:14, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
    No problems, and good of you to come back and write the above. I'm also learning the ropes to some extent -I've participated in the RM process quite a bit over the years but only recent started closing them, so it's good t get feedback of any kind to to know what issues I need to think about. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 20:34, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

commas

Hello - you participated in the RM at Talk:Rochester, New York metropolitan area. There is a related discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Commas_in_metro_areas which may interest you. If you have not done so, please consider contributing to the survey or discussion. Thanks! Dohn joe (talk) 00:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks for letting me know!  — Amakuru (talk) 07:08, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
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