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Thanks for your comments on Talk:BS 1363 - please feel free to amend or re-write the article. Secretlondon 15:21, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Gratuitous editing contrary to common usage

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I have spent time and trouble compiling the section on Delta Sigma analog to digital converters and my use of the V symbol without a preceding space has very common usage. See, for instance, Maxim data sheets. My expected audience is engineers, budding or otherwise and I do not expect them to have trouble understanding the item because the space is missing before the V symbol. I have 40 years experience as a chartered engineer and do not welcome lessons in presentation from someone who obviously has more time than sense. Kindly limit your interventions to places where it improves communication.Puffingbilly

how come you have not put any copyright tags or source information on this image?

done!--Ali@gwc.org.uk 20:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

theres another one at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Fuses.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subscriber_line_access_multiplexer The stuff below in the Dslam section is nonsense and needs to be either deleted or edited. The CENTRAL OFFICE itself isn't a DSLAM , the article confuses this.

  • The Central Office (CO) must now collect all the different digital signals from its modems and combine them into a single signal, via multiplexing. The Central Office (CO) must now collect all the different digital signals from its modems and combine them into a single signal, via multiplexing.

The aggregate signal then loads onto backbone switching equipment, traveling through an access network (AN) - also known as a Network Service Provider (NSP) - at speeds of up to 1 GBPS and emerging at a destination Central Office (CO). + The aggregate signal then loads onto backbone switching equipment, traveling through an access network (AN) - also known as a Network Service Provider (NSP) - at speeds of up to 1 Gbps and emerging at a destination Central Office (CO). At this point, the signal is then fragmented into its component parts and transmitted via telco modems to its final residential / commercial receivers. The device that performs these functions of signal combination and fragmentation is called the Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer, or DSLAM.

196.11.245.34 22:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CC-BY-NC

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i notice that you have tagged images you placed on Fuse (electrical) and Industrial & multiphase power plugs & sockets as CC-BY-ND. Wikipedia considers this a non-free license and it is said on Image_copyright_tags#Tags_for_deprecated_images that they will eventually be deleted.

they are nice images and it would be a shame to lose them Plugwash 18:13, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

to be honest I'm not too bothered what licence I use for these, obviously I can't imagine making money out of selling these pics! But I'm a little concerned about the commercial sites which rip off the entire wikipedia content wholesale with little or no credit to wikipedia. As I say I'm not that bothered about and if it was a case of free licence only or they would have to be removed then I would be fine with applying a free licence. I'm open to suggestions! --Ali@gwc.org.uk 12:10, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There are moves afoot to remove non free images (see Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images). Sites that use wikipedia content with no credit to wikipedia are definately violating the gfdl anyway. Most mirrors of wikipedia content do attribute it to wikipedia though i agree they try and make it as non-obvious as they think they can get away with. On the other hand once a user notices the link to the real thing i don't think they are very likely to go back. It is strongly reccomended (due to possible license compatibility issues depending on exactly how the licesnse is interpreted) to put images you create yourself for wikipedia under the gfdl.

As well as the fact that wikipedia is supposed to be free (as in the FSFs twisted definition of free) and noncommercial use licenses go against this they also create issues for any future dvd-rom or print editions of wikipedia. Plugwash 12:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree the commercialised mirror sites are a pain but putting images under a nondcommercial license doesn't really help with them (its pretty common to just link the images direct from wikipedia in which case they haven't copied them anyway). Plugwash 12:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As of May 19, 2005, Wikipedia does not permit the upload of content under Creative Commons Non-Commercial licenses. Many of the images that you uploaded under this license have not been changed. Please change the licenses of these useful images to a CC-BY-SA(-2.0) or GFDL. Unfortunately, if you do not so, these images will be deleted, per Wikipedia policies, so that (for example) DVD and print Wikipedias can be made. Using the GFDL or Creative Commons Attribution licenses would still require users to credit your work. Andrew pmk 01:08, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think I've done them all now, let me know if I've missed any.--Ali@gwc.org.uk 20:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting my hasty English on Air Transat Flight 236.129.177.61.124 10:58, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hello Avthegamer (talk) 11:40, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello sir Avthegamer (talk) 11:40, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

iMac

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Thanks for the save on the iMac release date. Gosh. How embarassing! --Steven Fisher 00:46, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summary at Cicero

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In your edit summary at Cicero you wrote "rv vandalism". Vandalism is a very harsh word, Jpbrenna's edit was not vandalism. Please be more careful in using that word in the future, as it can lead to needless conflict. Thanks. -JCarriker 09:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

oops sorry about that, I was reverting a bunch of vandalism by an anonymous user and must have not been paying proper attention to what I was doing. I certainly don't class Jpbrenna's edit as vandalism. --Ali@gwc.org.uk 12:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I notice in combination with the above plaint, that you are mislabeling contributions as rv vandalism that aren't anything of the sort. Please be careful. In this case I found, the change of BC to BCE for the article's dates was reverted back and labeled vandalism when in fact, it is more appropriate, particularly in a global and not-necessarily-christian context, to use BCE (Before our Common Era) rather than a religious-specific abbreviation like BC (Before Christ) in academic circles. The poor chap was doing you a favour! I'm changing it back, so please don't get angry with me. Thanks. --Glengordon01 13:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, nevermind. Now I see the problem. Ugh. The wikipedia itself needs to be revised. How awful. I'm forced into a pre-Industrial Before-Christ dating scheme. How drab. Hehe. Sigh. I guess I can't change a thing. --Glengordon01 13:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you look up DB-15 on the web

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Because that's clearly what it is. There is no such thing as DA-15. Look in any Beige G3 manual... look anywhere on the web... JUST GOOGLE IT. For christ's sake, do an IMAGE search on Google for DA-15, then for DB-15. Tell me what you find. -Angelic Wraith-

Manual of Style

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Thanks for being understanding, at least. It's just that it feels you invade every page I've been working on with this reformatting >_< I appreciate your grammatical and (usually) your rephrasing efforts, but I just don't see why it matters what the MoS is. I mean, realistically. What's the point of changing them anyway? And.. I don't really know how to take it up with the MoS board. Dan 01:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh right.. and why do you feel the need to do this to pages you don't even contribute to, which have been like this for years? ...And how are you finding all of them :P

reply at User talk:Angelic Wraith#unit formatting--Ali@gwc.org.uk 21:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm much relieved that you aren't stalking me :) lol

Ali, PLEASE leave the Apple Macintosh page alone. OK? Just don't fuck with this one. This is the one page that I can't stand being messed with. Please just go away. Following the rules for their own sake doesn't necessarily make sense if they're nonsensical.

Revision using popups?

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Hi, saw that you reverted a spammer's edits using what you called "Reversion to revision 36641720 using popups". Is this an easier way to revert? If so, how did you do it? I followed the popups link but didn't quite get the gist of it. Trixter 21:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User page deleted

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I deleted your user page since it wasn't edited by you. Of course you can go create it and make it the way you want it. Hope you didn't mind me doing so. --Thorpe | talk 19:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Signing talk pages

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Please sign your talk page posts with ~~~~. Mike (T C) 18:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Overlinking

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Please keep in mind that to wikilink years and days all over an article is meaningless. Example: "his orders are dated June 22". What is so special about a date of the order of his draft?

Just like we don't link the words ruler, army, man, southwest, etc., in each and every article, there is no sense to link 1943 or January 10 everywhere. A rule of thumb: would you like to see the corresponding entry in the "1943" or "January 10" article?

Please take a look into the "Overlinking" article. mikka (t) 04:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with you regarding years when they are on their own, but see [1] and [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates_and_numbers)#Date formatting] for why dates should be linked. IMO there should be a way of marking a date for processing by the date preference code without wikilinking it but at the moment there is not. --Ali@gwc.org.uk 04:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:ElectricityMeterMechanism.jpg

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I award this Graphic Designer's Barnstar to Ali@gwc.org.uk for the excellent illustration-photograph, Image:ElectricityMeterMechanism.jpg. Enjoy!
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You may wish to see the proposal at: Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#linking_of_dates. Thanks. bobblewik 09:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

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So you're saying if the year 2002 appears 232 (or even 2002 times in one article, each and every instance of 2002 should be linked? What could the possible reasoning be behind that be? Dan 05:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, years (and months) on their own should not be overlinked. But dates should be, to allow the date format preferencing mechanism to work. e.g. October 5 2005 looks weird and confusing to me and most non-americans, but written as [[October 5]] [[2005]] this will be formatted according to each user's preferences, 5 October 2005 in my case. As an another common example, if someone writes e.g. 9/11/2001 then many people will wonder what happened on the 9th of November. IMO it's a misfeature of the wiki software that the same wiki code is used for linking and indicating dates for preference-based formatting but that's the way it is at the moment. --Ali@gwc.org.uk 15:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BC to BCE

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Hey Dude, screw you. I don't need you to tell me whether or not my assertions are correct.

Thank you for your DYK help

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Thank you for your help in the Single-grain experiment article. It earned a DYK on October 12. I greatly appreciated it. Chris 00:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess

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Dear Ali—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on this new push to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. Tony 15:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


My concern about your username

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Hello, Ali@gwc.org.uk, and welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope not to seem unfriendly or make you feel unwelcome, but I noticed your username, and am concerned that it might not meet Wikipedia's username policy. After you look over that policy, could we discuss that concern here?

Your username is an e-mail address. New user accounts cannot be created that are e-mail addresses.

I'd appreciate learning your own views, for instance your reasons for wanting this particular name, and what alternative username you might accept that avoids raising this concern.

You have several options freely available to you:

Let me reassure you that my writing here means I don't think your username is grossly, blatantly, or obviously inappropriate; such names get reported straight to Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention or blocked on sight. This is more a case where opinions might differ, and it would be good to reach some consensus — either here or at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names. So I look forward to a friendly discussion, and to enjoying your continued participation on Wikipedia. Thank you. Deskana (talk) 11:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC) --Deskana (talk) 11:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I personally don't think your username does any harm to Wikipedia. The main thing you should worry about by posting your e-mail everywhere is getting spammed. Programs called harvesters search for e-mail addresses like yours that are accessable on the internet. A spammer could also browse your contributions and tailor their mailings to your interests. Pretty valuable stuff. Be careful.--Gnfgb2 20:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Binary Prefix Image Deletion

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You might want to weigh in on the deletion of images from the Binary Prefix page Tom94022 23:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A tag has been placed on File:CommercialElectricityMeter.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an image licensed as "for non-commercial use only," "non-derivative use" or "used with permission," it has not been shown to comply with the limited standards for the use of non-free content. [2], and it was either uploaded on or after 2005-05-19, or is not used in any articles. If you agree with the deletion, there is no need to do anything. If, however, you believe that this image may be retained on Wikipedia under one of the permitted conditions then:

  • state clearly the source of the image. If it has been copied from elsewhere on the web you should provide links to: the image itself, the page which uses it and the page which contains the license conditions.
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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. -- Cirt (talk) 16:28, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:090 albanian graves kosovo.jpg listed for deletion

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A file that you uploaded or altered, File:090 albanian graves kosovo.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.  :Jay8g Hi!- I am... -What I do... WASH- BRIDGE- WPWA - MFIC- WPIM 01:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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proof of me

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I am requesting a rename on Commons. My current Commons name is ali@gwc.org.uk. Alistair1978 (talk) 00:35, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maag

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Hi Alistair1978. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. However, I've restored the redirect MAAG because Military Assistance Advisory Group is the primary topic (because it is only topic on Wikipedia which is referred to with "MAAG", a hatnote was enough for now). Furthermore, your version of Maag was problematic as a disambiguation page. Disambiguation pages are not articles – they are navigation aids. Besides the mentioned military unit your page had nothing else to navigate to. I managed to salvage the page as a surname page, otherwise the page would be a candidate for deletion. Please make yourself familiar with the guidelines and manual of style regarding disambiguation pages before creating new ones. You can contact me if you have any further questions. Cheers, LittleWink (talk) 22:53, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Natalia Revuelta Clews requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Wgolf (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Cut-and-paste move to Santander Cycles

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Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Barclays Cycle Hire a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Santander Cycles. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

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Take a look

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Joan Ferguson (fictional character).--BabbaQ (talk) 20:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP style for units

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I happened to see your copy-edit of a range of lengths. As per MOS:NBSP and MOS:NDASH, the usual way to format a range with a unit is like this: 3–4 cm. Peter coxhead (talk) 20:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Double-insulated-symbol.png listed for discussion

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File:Fuses.jpg listed for discussion

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Fear of MSG is RACIST???

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so now race-baiting has reached food additive discussions. Isn’t this beyond ridiculous? I’m uber-sensitive to MSG and am stunned to think anyone would perceive my condition as racist. Seriously!! Dianne93101 (talk) 00:36, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Typos

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Hello. Re the englandfootballonline refs that you're changing to remove apostrophes from the |title= parameter, as here. That apostrophe is correctly copied from the page cited: it isn't a typo. If you want to remove them, and have a good reason for doing so, please carry on, but please state that reason in your edit summary: it isn't a good idea to say you're fixing typos when you're not. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:41, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your msg... Please see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Typographic_conformity among others. It's a typo in the original, which should be corrected here. Alistair1978 (talk) 15:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Difference of terminology, perhaps. I wouldn't call it a typo in the original, rather a difference between that website's house style and ours. Silently changing to our house style is encouraged, as the MoS makes clear. But if it were me, being pedantic, I'd cite MOS:CONFORM rather than "typo" in my edit summary. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:07, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, me again. You might want to slow down a bit, and make sure you're not removing correctly used possessive apostrophes like this one before you save your edit. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 06:43, 13 July 2018 (UTC) [reply]

This blocked user is asking that his block be reviewed on the Unblock Ticket Request System:

Alistair1978 (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsabuse filter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


UTRS appeal #23057 was submitted on Oct 27, 2018 07:09:47. This review is now closed.


--UTRSBot (talk) 07:09, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

V DC vs VDC

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I can't find the manual of style or NIST SI definition that defines a format for how to express AC vs DC for voltages. Can you point me to the relevant sections? Railfan23 (talk) 04:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

you're right, it should probably properly be "xxx V DC". My edit was more about the space between the digits and the unit symbol. Alistair1978 (talk) 04:36, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That seems reasonable. Railfan23 (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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This blocked user is asking that his block be reviewed on the Unblock Ticket Request System:

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UTRS appeal #25734 was submitted on Jun 26, 2019 19:05:20. This review is now closed.


--UTRSBot (talk) 19:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not typos

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I have undone a couple of your recent "typo corrections", as they were not typos. See here and here. Whatever Wikipedia's attitude to traditional usage like 1920's etc, we do not "correct" the titles or texts to which we make reference. DuncanHill (talk) 23:11, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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"alterations which make no difference when the text is read aloud" - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_open-source_video_games&type=revision&diff=922695990&oldid=922315645&diffmode=source Psypheriumtalk page 08:24, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Changing from American English to British English

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Please read WP:ENGVAR. Changing an article between British and American English is not a "spelling" correction, as your edit summaries seem to suggest. It is against WP policy. Please revert your changes that do this. --A D Monroe III(talk) 21:21, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

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The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your extensive work in fixing typo's. scope_creepTalk 12:43, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2019

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Information icon Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Famous Studios, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use the sandbox for that. Thank you. FilmandTVFan28 (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, seems to have been due to a glitch in my internet connection... thanks for fixing that.Alistair1978 (talk) 01:34, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Havana, Plan Piloto, and the 14th C.

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"16th century since Havana wasn't founded until then..." ...don't you know all architects have Dyslexia...Thank you!!!! ovA_165443 (talk) 01:40, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Please check your work

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Hi! Like the work you're doing with typos, but I've seen 4 recent cases where you changed text that is a quote and should not be changed. Please check your work before finalising. Doctorhawkes (talk) 02:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

also Obergs Locomotive book, it's not good to be wiki correct when it's right on the book cover Dave Rave (talk) 01:55, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Least valuable currency" listed at Redirects for discussion

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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Least valuable currency. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 30#Least-valued currency unit until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 12:09, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

welsh moves

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Some really strange moves to the article titles with an apostrophe before the FC. Never seen that before. Where did you get that? -Koppapa (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Standard correct English usage... One says XYZ Men's F.C.; XYZ Women's F.C.... XYZ Ladies' F.C. is no different... beyond me why it seems to be such a common mistake; I guess people get confused by the apostrophe being at the end of the word and just decide to leave it out!Alistair1978 (talk) 20:15, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But Ladies is part of the club name here, isn't it? I have not seen any source using the club name in the way you moved them now. -Koppapa (talk) 04:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notts County Ladies

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Did not have an apostrophe in their name. Could you please move the page back? I note from the above comment that you have done this in other places as well. Could you please check in future rather than arbitrarily moving pages to accord with what you think is correct English? Chris (talk) 07:33, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alistair I agree that these moves are incorrect. Whether we look at WP:OFFICIALNAMES or WP:COMMONNAME there is unequivocally no apostrophe in the name of any of these "Ladies" football clubs. See for example: [3], [4], [5]. As it's now at ANI it might be better if you self revert the ones you've done so far and then try to make your case for consensus at WP:WOSO or some other relevant central location. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 19:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notification

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Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. —Bagumba (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mass edit reversion

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I have rolled back all of the article, template and category changes that you made to insert an incorrect apostrophe into the titles of football teams. Worryingly, you continued to do this in an automated fashion even after having been informed that it was wrong. Further issues like this will result in your ability to use automatic tools being revoked, or even you being blocked. Thank you, Black Kite (talk) 19:48, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also refer to the closing of the ANI discussion about your page moves and subsquent mass, automated edits. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 07:04, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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ILGWU

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Please note that although grammatical English may appear to call for them, there were, in fact, no apostrophes in the name "International Ladies Garment Workers Union", and your adding them is incorrect. Please stop doing so. I will be reverting and rolling back your edits. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See the union's official logo here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Pinkston Watersports" listed at Redirects for discussion

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