Talk:Yatta, Hebron

NPOV

w.r.t to my last edit, i think it maintains NPOV because it is a 'double edged sword' as far as any side to the conflict is concerned (i.e. it can be used to bolster both palestinian claims and jewish claims). the hebrew wikipedia sources this to shofar, which is just about as non-reliable as it gets (imho). but see http://shofarnews.co.il/site/ARDetile.asp?id=8292&Catogory=3&SubID=6859, it includes a photo of a Hanukia from the village. MiS-Saath (talk) 16:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Traditional houses

@Huldra, Zero0000, and Al Ameer son: hi. Yatta is (was?) quite famous for its traditional stone houses, which had become rather unique after traditional Palestinian stone architecture has been largely demolished to make place for larger, concrete-built modern houses. Are they still there? Is there any museum waiting to be (re)opened? I mean two-storey houses, with stables downstairs and living quarters upstairs, so more than just the more widespread single-storey stone-domed houses. A quick Google search doesn't bring much up: Welcome to Palestine: Yatta, and Architecture and Ways of Living: Traditional and Modern Palestinian Villages and Cities, a 2019 PhD thesis, don't seem to touch on the topic. Arminden (talk) 02:18, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I remember how I came across it. It's about the Christmas story, Luke 2:7: "and [Mary] gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them." It is said that a centuries-old arrangement in Palestinian architecture explains the biblical passage: houses with living accommodation upstairs, and animals stabled downstairs. Such houses can be a major attraction for pilgrims and other tourists (yes, Covid is not forever), and knowing that there are a number of conservation initiatives in Palestine, some with European financial support, I was wondering if something in the way of a traditional architecture museum has been prepared in Yatta, awaiting better days. At least one or two such houses being saved from demolition. There are conservation projects elsewhere (Nablus, Ramallah, Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Hebron), but Yatta was the place known for such buildings. They are (were?) probably more rural than what one finds in the other, bigger towns. I last heard of them some 25 years ago, or more, it came back to me now and that's why I'm asking. Who knows, for once Wiki might help putting smth. in motion in the real world.

Here is an illustration from Picturesque Palestine, Vol. 1, p. 129. Arminden (talk) 07:41, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

User:Arminden, the only organisation which I am aware of for conservation of old houses in the area is Riwaq, and they, AFAIK, have been more concerned with castles and mansions. Also, the mixture of animal stables/human habitation is rather universal, me thinks. I recall talking to an elderly Danish women, who grew up on a farm in Jutland between WWI and WWII: half of the farm-house for animals, the other half for humans. And the "sky-scrapers" of Hadhramaut; eg Shibam; where typically the bottom one or two floors traditionally were for animals, and the upper floors were for humans. Huldra (talk) 22:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

What happened on December 12, 1938, does anyone know?

"British soldiers marching away at the close of this exceptional gathering of Arab peasants"

"Peasant reading propagand(a) sheet prepared by Fakhri Nashashibi who is seen in the picture with his back to the camera"

"Peasant reading propagand(a) sheet prepared by Fakhri Nashashibi who is seen in the picture with his back to the camera" (surrounded by heavily armed British troops)

What happened on December 12, 1938 in Yatta? There are lots and lots of pictures on commons (from the Matson collection) from that day. Apparently General O'Connor and loads of British soldiers were there, so was Fakhri al-Nashashibi (who has an article on he.wp, alas, none on en.wp), Anybody knows what went on? With such a load of people; it should have been noticed, somewhere? Huldra (talk) 22:50, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@Huldra: Cohen, Army of Shadows, pp. 147–148 (let me know if you don't have it): "Seeking to gain influence, Nashashibi first held two large public meetings of his supporters. The first, held in his home in the presence of the press, was attended by notables from forty-five villages in the area of Jerusalem, Ramallah, and Hebron. The second, held in the village of Yatta, was attended by 3,000 people from the Mt. Hebron region. The sheikh of sheikhs of Mt. Hebron, Shehadah ‘Arram, stated in his speech to the local residents and their guests (including Gen. Richard O’Connor, commander of the 7th Division and military governor of Jerusalem) that they represented 60,000 people of Mt. Hebron, all of whom rejected the rebels’ actions. He thanked the army for acting against the rebellion and promised cooperation in the ongoing struggle." The source places this in late 1938 without a precise date, but it is hard to imagine there was more than one such large event within a short period. Zero^talk 02:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0022009415572401 on p 306 mentions " a large public meeting at the village of Yatta on 18 December 1938, attended by some 3000 Palestinians and by O’Connor." ref's to TNA.Selfstudier (talk) 12:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Great, thanks, both of you; it was also mentioned in Benny Morris, 1999, Righteous Victims: pp. 153–154; see 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine#Role_of_the_"Peace_bands" (Note that Morris writes "Yata").

I must say; for being a "peace meeting"; from the pictures: there were an awful lot of very heavily armed British soldiers present. Hmm.

It seems as if Fakhri al-Nashashibi (we really need an en.wp article about him!) was a vocal opponent of Amin al-Husseini. Fakhri al-Nashashibi was killed in 1941, in Iraq; after which the Nashashibis apparently mostly withdrew from politics(?).

Quite a bit about him in Hughes 2019 Britain’s Pacification of Palestine.Selfstudier (talk) 11:25, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

A lot here is not very clear: Interestingly, the pro-Zionist Palestine Post had a fascinating article December 28, 1938 (p. 2):

Hebron Sheikh and a Jerusalem Telegram, "Repudiation" of Yatta speech of loyalty.

[..] "To the editor of The Palestine Post -I, Khalil es Shariff, of Dura village near Hebron, was called to Yatta village to attend a meeting of villagers for the purpose of making peace among certain people. We were surprised at the arrival of troops and Fakhri Bey Nashashibi, and for this reason, most of us there were about to leave as all this was unexpected."

"On the the point of departure, Fakri Bey handed me a typed statement and asked me to deliver to those present. As my situation was most delicate, and I did not know what the statement contained, I read it against my will, though the speech did not represent the view of myself or those of the majority of the people present.

"I repudiate this mischievous and deceitful act which was an abuse of my confidence. I proclaim my innocence before God and my dear country of all that was contained in that statement. I declare my full support of our only leader, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el Husseini, and his colleagues the members of the Arab Higher Committee. I repudiate the acts of Fakri and his sinful tactics. (Signed) Khalil es Shariff".

Fakhri Nashashibi said the telegram "was probably forged".

Interesting times, indeed, Huldra (talk) 23:43, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The gathering was also reported in The Times of Dec 19. The reporter wrote "The crowd's reserved demeanour and perfunctory clapping after the speeches did not suggest great spontaneous enthusiasm, but the fact that the demonstration could be held indicates that the people are not as much afraid of retaliatory terrorism as formerly." Zero^talk 02:44, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, something seems not right about those photos: the way the Matson collection (that belonged to the American Colony-people) labeled it is most unusual ("Peasant reading propagand(a) sheet prepared by Fakhri Nashashibi"). The American Colony people were generally close to the British Authorities in the Mandate era; they often photographed "major " events, but I have never seen them label anything as "propaganda" outside this meeting. It frankly seems as if the locals were lured there on false premises, then used in a propaganda war. About the Dura mukhtar's "delicate" situation; recall what the British did in Halhul just a few months before. Local Arab lives were not worth much to the British; as I am sure they were all aware, Huldra (talk) 21:41, 2 April 2021 (UTC)