Talk:Violent Crimes (song)

Critical reception introduction

To anyone who has changed/is thinking of changing the introduction to this section to saying "mixed reviews" from "widely negative reviews", please provide sources to show that the song received better than negative reviews. I have chosen to enter this on the talk page because users have edited the introduction twice. --Kyle Peake (talk) 15:08, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Update: Over a year later and there has been enough reviews found to change the section introduction to "mixed to negative" as has been done properly, though changing it to "mixed" or "generally negative" would be incorrect currently. --Kyle Peake (talk) 12:20, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Critical reception

The song is one of the most praised songs from the album. Any reviews saying that it doesn't understand how women see the world are insanely ignorant of the song's purpose. How women see the world is irrelevant to the song since it's about Kanye as a father having irrational fears as a parent. I don't think we should draw attention to these types of reviews as they easily fail to reflect the actual world reception of the song. --JohnStartop (talk) 15:45, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

JohnStartop would you care to link to any examples? Kyle Peake (talk) 16:29, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Nope. But I can dispute the validity of the reviews cited. The reviews criticize his view of women, but the song isn't even about that. It's blatantly about his irrational fears as a father, so reviewing his portrayal of women is irrelevant. JohnStartop (talk) 02:36, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

GOCE?

@Kyle Peake: Thanks for your work on this article. I suggest requesting a review from the Guild of Copy Editors, not because I see anything specifically concerning, but as a general review going into the Good article nomination. I usually submit GOCE requests before nominating an article for Good status. Doesn't hurt! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:27, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Another Believer Do I need to renominate the article after doing that? Also I guess you don't see any noticeable issues then...? Kyle Peake (talk) 15:30, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Kyle Peake, You can request a copy edit and nominate the article for Good status at the same time. Submitting a request here is quick and easy, and does not impact the Good article nomination. GOCE is simply a place to request a copy edit by a volunteer. :) Still reviewing the article off and on, but I have not identified any major concerns yet. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd submit the request myself, but I already have two posted at GOCE, which is the limit at any given time. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:21, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Violent Crimes (song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BeatlesLedTV (talk · contribs) 01:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

I'll get to this sometime this week. – BeatlesLedTV (talk) 01:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

BeatlesLedTV Good to hear I'll stop asking you and simply wait. Kyle Peake (talk) 01:57, 1 April 2019 (UTC)--

BeatlesLedTV Responding to some points now --Kyle Peake (talk) 19:46, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Lead and infobox

• Infobox looks good
• Most of the lead is out of order
  • Ordered how you said, I think...?

• Looks good now

• "It serves as the album's closer." – don't like this sentence
  • Changed
• "Vocals from Ty Dolla Sign, 070 Shake and Nicki Minaj are included within the song." – reads weird; "The song contains vocals from rappers Ty Dolla Sign, 070 Snake, and Nicki Minaj."
  • Done

• On top of this, Minaj doesn't actually have any vocals, it's a spoken word message that sounds like a voicemail or phone call then West recorded and put on it.

• How does my referencing of her in the lead look now?

• Looks good now

• To make the lead longer, maybe mention "The song was written by (list all the writers), then "but Thorpe, also known as Pardison Fontaine, contributed to most of its writing."
  • Done
• Writing should be like the third or fourth sentence and before the lyric video
  • Done
• The critical reception to be the first sentence of the second paragraph.
  • Done

Background

• Not sure how everything from 'Along' to 'better' (end quote) fits in with background.

• It works, giving a background on West and Ty Dolla Sign as well as 070 Shake, since she was made a lot more famous by the song, being barely even known before.

• Ah I got you.

• "Tyler, The Creator revealed when speaking to GQ in August 2018 that the song's chords made him cry.[8]" – 'the' in his name should be lowercase; this should be in reception or a legacy section
  • Edited and moved to reception.

Composition

• ""Violent Crimes" has a soft R&B background and is the closer to Ye.[9]" – the fact that it's the closer shouldn't be mentioned here; change to "Violent Crimes" is a hip hop song with elements of contemporary R&B" (or just R&B)
  • Done
• Where does Ty Dolla Sign's vocals appear?
  • Will search up this and try to fix it
    • Does the edit I added now read fine?

"Run alongside" doesn't sound right when talking about vocals

BeatlesLedTV Changed, how's it look now? --Kyle Peake (talk) 18:27, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Good now

• Does Minaj semi-speak or semi-rap?
  • Changed to "semi-speaks"
• "at the end of it" – "at the end of the song"
  • Done
• Last sentence is a strong run-on and can be separated at 'since'
  • Done, but is it fine now or still need improvements from the two sentences?

The term "shade" being used here doesn't sound that encyclopedic. I know the term is used in the reference but it just sounds weird here. Is it also confirmed that that's what West was doing, or is it just one person's opinion? Because until I read that, I never once linked the two together. While I'm not sure whether or not West and Swift are on good terms at this point (3 years later), I am interested to know if that's what was West's intention with making the voice message a part of the song.

I have reworded "shade" and made sure to keep it clear that rumours had it for West to be shading Swift (the ref shows multiple tweets from users that speculated so.) Does this sentence look fine now and if not, what should I do?

My main problem with the last sentence is that it reads as though the whole "Famous" drama happened very recently when it happened 3 years ago. Maybe word it as though it was a callback and not a direct response to it.

BeatlesLedTV Referenced 2016 in the sentence and wrote "at the time", fine now? Kyle Peake (talk) 06:05, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Much better now

• "Nicki Minaj's vocals" – if you're gonna say "prior to Nicki Minaj's outro" right before this just use her last name cuz it's odd reading full names back-to-back.

• Done

Writing

• Not sure if this deserves its own section
  • With the significant coverage of the writing, a section is noteworthy. I don't see how not?

• I think it can be combined into composition and renamed "Composition and writing"

• The composition section is already large enough as it is and the writing section is of a reasonable size in its own right, so can't they stay apart logically?

• There's really no limit as to how big a section has to be, as long as all the info is relevant to the heading. Writing and composition are somewhat the same since one leads to the other so they ultimately blend together. Combining them would make more sense; have comp be one paragraph and writing be another.

• Done

Release and promotion

• Change to release and promotion and do what we did on "Father Stretch My Hands" ("Violent Crimes" was released on June 1, 2018, as the final track on West's eighth studio album Ye.)
  • Should I do this and use Tidal as a source or AllMusic like you did on the other song?

• Use AllMusic

• BeatlesLedTV I have done this now, could you respond to the comments made by me and also, do you have any further improvements to be made for the article?

• Couple more above. – BeatlesLedTV (talk) 18:14, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Critical reception

• "It was written by Christopher Hooton of The Independent that" → Christopher Hooton of The Independent wrote that"
  • Done

Commercial performance

• Good

Personnel

• Use en dashes not colons
  • Done

Charts

• Good

Certifications

• Good

References

• Make sure all are archived
  • Will archive all now, added a few after I have done the page so yeah. Done

Final thoughts

• So far looks alright but could be better. I'll have more to say once everything here is taken care of. – BeatlesLedTV (talk) 18:03, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Alright everything looks good now. i'll go ahead and ✓ Pass this. – BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.