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Founded?

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Does this list include brewpubs? If not, should it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken444444 (talk • contribs) 16:39, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What do the "Founded" dates mean? MillerCoors and Budweiser were founded much earlier than 1966. Does this refer to the date in which they first came into Texas? Or something else? Prof. Mc (talk) 20:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those particular breweries were established in Texas in 1966. Various other breweries owned by those companies have opened in different locations and different dates around the country. Brian Reading (talk) 08:07, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Brianreading: That seems confusing in this context, to be honest, unless you explain what you mean by "founding" on the page. The footnotes for those two breweries don't discuss that. The one for Budweiser is about them using different water, and the one for MillerCoors links back to their own website [I'm removing it as a spam link, actually, since they have their own WP pages.] Is there maybe a better way to explain what the dates mean?
Wait, you removed it as spam? I think it would be helpful to read up on what spamming is. I am in no way intending to advertise for the company, and there was no real reason to remove that. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as per WP:SELFSOURCE, a self-published source is okay to use if it meets the following requirements: It is not self-serving or making an exceptional claim, it does not involve claims about third parties, it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject, there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity, and the article is not based primarily on such sources. From what I can tell, that source does not fail any of those requirements. However, because it appears you feel that it is necessary to have a different source for that, I have added it. In the future, please feel free to look for sources to improve articles as well.
As far as the Anheuser-Busch source, it was actually meant to give a source for the amount of barrels it brews, not the founding, except that you that moved it from that area to the other column, which is why it's not showing what you're looking for. I should also note that not every single piece of information on Wikipedia needs a source. As per Wikipedia:When to cite, we cite when we use a quotation or close paraphrasing, a contentious claim about a living person, an exceptional claim, or statistical data. The 1966 date of the brewery is simply none of that, so this is why I did not add a source for the year, but actually the production (a statistic). However, because it appears you feel that it is necessary to have another source for that, I have added it. In the future, please feel free to look for sources to improve articles as well.
I would also ask that if you do have a better term in mind to use other than "Founded", that you could please make efforts to change the list or at least offer an alternative in discussion. I don't personally believe there's room for confusion here, but if you think it's necessary, please don't hesitate. Cheers. Brian Reading (talk) 17:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Brianreading: The MillerCoors reference doesn't add anything to the page. The fact of MillerCoors' existence is verified in their Wikipedia page, linked to in their name, and the link doesn't do anything more to help a reader. So, I was going by WP:ELNO #19. So, the question is, what's the purpose of providing the link you do? What does it add that makes a claim relevant to the Wikipedia:When to cite reference you link above? The fact of MillerCoors' existence isn't a quotation or close paraphrasing, it's not contentious, it's not exceptional, and it's not statistical. By your own reasoning it's not necessary, as well as the reasoing at WP:WHYCITE. Add that it isn't an independent source and it should come out. Also, a substantial number of people [ie. those under 21] won't be able to use the website you link to. Does #7 come into play here? Given those other problems, it made sense to remove it.
It's true, as you note, that "not every single piece of information on Wikipedia needs a source." It is true, though, that every source should contain independently' verifiable information. The reference for MillerCoors isn't an independent source. Nor was the one for Real Ale.
Last, your admonition to "feel free to look for sources to improve articles as well" would be more helpful if you would do it right in the first place. I'm not sure its fair to put in a bunch of breweries in a way that goes against established convention on these pages, and then ask others to complete the work that you've only started. and to fix something you've done incorrectly. Prof. Mc (talk) 18:14, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll just go about this by responding to your remarks directly. I think it will make things clearer.
Prof. Mc said: "The MillerCoors reference doesn't add anything to the page." I disagree. It is a primary source that provides the current annual production.
Prof. Mc said: "So, I was going by WP:ELNO [...]" Okay, well there's the problem. It looks like you're confusing external links with sources. The two serve completely different purposes, so they are treated very differently from each other on Wikipedia.
Prof. Mc said: "By your own reasoning it's not necessary [...]" If you read the source, it states the number of barrels produced (a statistic), which is purposeful to cite.
Prof. Mc said: "[I]t isn't an independent source and it should come out [...] every source should contain independently' verifiable information." Again, as outlined in WP:SELFSOURCE, it's okay to use, especially now that I've also added independent sources to supplement. It is not true that every source needs to be independent.
Prof. Mc said: "Last, your admonition to "feel free to look for sources to improve articles as well" would be more helpful if you would do it right in the first place." Let me start out with noting that this was not an admonition, but simply a suggestion to help do what you can to improve articles as you see fit. I apologize if it came off as an admonition.
Prof. Mc said: "I'm not sure its fair to put in a bunch of breweries in a way that goes against established convention on these pages, and then ask others to complete the work that you've only started. and to fix something you've done incorrectly." In which manner have I "gone against established convention"? Thanks for your input. Brian Reading (talk) 19:28, 15 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Annual production

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I'm going to take the "annual production in barrels" columns, for 2013 and 2012, out of the breweries table. This info isn't being kept up, and isn't filled in for a lot of the breweries. If anyone thinks this is not a good idea, please discuss it here. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:19, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've also added a Notes column. This is free form and can be used to include useful information about the breweries. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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