Talk:SS Orduña

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Military history: Maritime / British / European / World War II Start‑class

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This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
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Scouting Low‑importance

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Peace Cruise

I felt that if this was important as a historical event, then it deserves its own page. I felt that although interesting to people interesting in the Scouting and Guiding movements, it didn't particularly add anything relevant to the discussion of the SS Orduna. Personally, I feel that if you want to mention the Peace Cruises (and with your interest in the history of Scouting etc, I'm guessing you would), this would be better placed as part of the Baden-Powell or Scouting pages. However, there is no mention on the Robert Baden-Powell page!

The main idea behind this article is the ship, not what happened to one passenger on it, hence why I removed the section I did.

I also reorganised a few paragraphs so that the whole of the article was in chronological order - the amount of space used for "War Service" was minimal, and I didn't see the justification for a few lines having a section of their own which was out of chronological order.

Looking through the Scouting pages, I couldn't see references to SS Orduna (and the wiki search page doesn't have anything linking the two subjects, apart from for this page) - in fact, searching for "ss orduna" shows this article, the article about her sister ship SS Orbita, the List of Ocean Liners page, and 2 non-related pages. PhantomSteve (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've no objection to your chronology edits so long as you check your spelling, but as to the cruise, it is one of the more notable events of the ship, but not not necessarily a singular event in BP's long stellar timeframe. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 15:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no mention of the "Peace Cruises" on any of the pages about Scouting? I agree that it is one of the more notable events of the ship, hence the reason why I left mention of it in th article, but I feel that the amount of detail given was incompatible with an article about a ship. I've had a quick look on Google, and most of the entries are either people's personal websites, or a minor mention (a few words) - can you find any major online source of information? I still feel that this would be more suitabluy mentioned on a specific Scouting page (not necessarily about Baden-Powell himself, but one of them), not in an article about a ship.PhantomSteve (talk) 16:01, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed redraft

I'm inclined to agree with Phantomsteve, this section should be written in proportion to the history of the ship as a whole. Despite there being three Peace Cruises, we don't have an article on any of them, or what they were. This would be a better place to mention where the scouters went and what they saw when the Orduna arrived in port. Phantomsteve made various improvements that were lost in the full-scale revert. Please refrain from this in future, even if there are misspellings. I propose the following rewrite, that retains the essence of Orduna's part in the cruise, but trims extraneous material. Would this be acceptable? Benea (talk) 17:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In 1938 the Orduna was used for the third and final 'Peace Cruise', carrying 460 Scouters and Guiders, including Robert and Olave Baden-Powell, and their daughter Heather, on a cruise to Iceland, Norway, Denmark and Belgium. Orduna left Liverpool on 8 August, returning on 25 August via Dover.^[1]

Robert Baden-Powell was too ill to leave the ship during the voyage, but parties of local scouts visited him on the ship at most of the stops, while the scouters and guiders on the ship took the opportunity to tour local landmarks and attend receptions. During the stop at Reykjavik on Thursday, 11 August, during which Orduna moored beside the German cruiser Emden, a party from the Scouts of Iceland brought some rock on board so that Baden-Powell could still 'set foot in Iceland'.^[2] The Orduna called at Trondheim, Norway, on 15 August, Copenhagen, Denmark on 18 August, and Belgium on Sunday 21 August, before returning to England.

I would agree with this as well. The article in its current condition needs a bit of grammar and flow work. I reassessed the article to C-class for ships as criteria 2 is a bit weak presently. With the editing going on I think this could make B-class once things are settled. --Brad (talk) 17:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have inserted the redraft, and restored a number of the improvements made by Phantomsteve that were lost in the revert. Benea (talk) 11:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Benea. I think the redraft meets the needs of this article, and is a good compromise! Thanks for restoring the bits I did too. PhantomSteve (talk) 12:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm likin' it. Good work all! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Heather". The World Chief Guide website. Retrieved 20 May 2009. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |month=, |dateformat=, and |coauthors= (help)
^ Eileen K. Wade. "27 Years with Baden-Powell". Retrieved 20 May 2009. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |month=, |dateformat=, and |coauthors= (help)

[1] "Heather". The World Chief Guide website. Retrieved 20 May 2009. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |month=, |dateformat=, and |coauthors= (help)

[2] Eileen K. Wade. "27 Years with Baden-Powell". Retrieved 20 May 2009. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |month=, |dateformat=, and |coauthors= (help)

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