Talk:Queens at Heart

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A fact from Queens at Heart appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 August 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Queens at Heart, which features four trans women in the mid-1960s, has been called both a documentary and an exploitation film?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Queens at Heart.

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Oddball Films

The exhibition "Letting Loose and Fighting Back: LGBTQ Nightlife Before and After Stonewall" at the New-York Historical Society (May 24–September 22, 2019) included a clip of Queens At Heart. The placard read, in full:

Unidentified director

Queens at Heart (excerpts), 1967
Runtime 0:30
Oddball Films

This exploitation documentary followed drag queens and trans women who competed at drag balls. Cross dressing and same-sex dancing were illegal and subject to arrest.

I don't recall seeing Oddball Films mentioned in the credits to Queens at Heart, but editors should be on the lookout for a reliable, published source discussing what Oddball Films is and its relation to this film (or rather, presumably, to this film's restoration). It seems perhaps they are responsible for licensing. Their website includes clips from this film, but does not mention the film by name: [1] (1:30), [2] (2:52), [3] (2:07), [4] (2:17), [5] (1:58), [6] (2:07), [7] (2:01), [8] (1:56), [9] (1:52), [10] (2:34). That adds up to 21:14, which is basically the entire movie. It seems inappropriate to include this in the external links, but these links might be useful to future editors. Umimmak (talk) 15:12, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vicky Female Mimics

Jenni Olson has noted in the Vimeo description [11] that Vicky is featured in the following feature: "Vicky 'The Bombshell'". Female Mimics. Vol. 1, no. 11. Winter 1968. pp. 52–60. Not sure yet how relevant this is to the article but in case it's useful to future editors I'd include the citation here on the talk page. Umimmak (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've added a bibliography section and a detailed reference for this magazine article that should be helpful for interested readers. Hist9600 (talk) 07:20, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not really directly relevant to this film though, which I think putting it under bibliography kind of implies? (I feel bibliography is also a strange label for a photo shoot?) Umimmak (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what is reasonable in terms of providing a link to the article on the Internet Archive. The issue with that is that the Internet Archive these days hosts a lot of magazines that are probably technically copyrighted, and that hosting may be copyright infringement (WP:COPYRIGHT). In that case, we should provide the formatted reference without an external link. Hist9600 (talk) 02:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you think it’s necessary to remove the link, sure, but again I’m not sure I see the point of including a citation to a photo shoot about one subject of this film in the first place. And making it harder for readers to see the photo shoot might make them think it contains actually useful information about the film, wasting their time trying to access a copy. Umimmak (talk) 08:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article and photos are important for anyone researching trans history in NYC during this time, and who is looking into this documentary. Very little is known about the production of the film, or its participants. So anything outside the film itself is quite notable. Hist9600 (talk) 17:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any thoughts about having the |url= go to the Digital Transgender Archive ([12]) instead of archive.org directly? Umimmak (talk) 00:40, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That might be slightly better, but I'm not sure. I like that the Digital Transgender Archive directly hosts the cover scan, and also has metadata and citation information. On the other hand, it directly links to the entry on the Internet Archive, which is the questionable part in terms of WP policy. Hist9600 (talk) 01:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know if there's been discussion on not linking to archive.org because of WP:COPYRIGHT / WP:ELNEVER? Also the above link says Rights: No known copyright. This feels considerably different from linking to LibGen. Umimmak (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but it may be worth looking into. Any users can upload any files they want, and there are not really any details about rights aside from the copyright notice in the magazine itself. Hist9600 (talk) 23:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]