Talk:Midna/Archive 1

Header Photo

I have a picture of Midna saved into my file and i can't seem to be able to upload it so it can be seen by the general public (thank goodness for Page Preveiw)

can i just send the image to somebody, its one of the most popular photos of Midna

Bearflip 03:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

STUB

Why is this still a stub? Surely it should be sort of around C- or B-class? --Arkracer 17:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

look agian 70.190.109.11 00:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC) dogbite dogbite, the post was made in 1/12/07, the article used to be a stub, now more info, such as Midnas hair, Realtionship with link, the conflict of Midnas photo..ect ect..has been added, so its not a stub Bearflip 03:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Voice Actress

Does anybody know who the voice actress of Midna is?

i can't believe i'm responding to this, but you're kidding, right? HiS oWn 05:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

actually, now that I think about it, could be valid. I'll look into it. HiS oWn 05:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It's Akiko Kawamoto, according to the game's entry in the Japanese Wikipedia (under the characters section). I've added this to the article on Midna. Tony Myers 05:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Midna is zelda?

Can anyone confirm this? Its stated in zelda's article she is midna. [1]

I'm halfway through the game, and all signs point to NO on that one. While a connection between Midna and Zelda is made (after the third dungeon) that could be somewhat construed as such a thing, they are still very much two separate entities. Actually, I read the info in the spoiler area of this article a couple dungeons ago, and so far everything seems to be correct, so the whole thing is likely valid. --Kaleb.G 03:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I beat the game on Saturday: the answer is a straight no. SixteenBitJorge 03:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

minda is definitly not zelda

I think they were trying to say that Midna is the shadowy doppelganger of Zelda, like the parallels between characters in Oot and Majora's Mask. Midna serves the same purpose in her world that Zelda serves in hers: They both rule over it. Certainly not the same person, but similar roles: Yes. Commander Regulus 21:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I finished the game and I can say that Midna is NOT Zelda. Armyrifle 02:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

Personally, I don't see any resemblance between Midna's helm and Majora's Mask...anyone else think this should be taken out?

-Nor do I, but I do note the surprising resemblance Midna has to Veran, I would definitely leave that in.

Yeah Midna Bears a resemblance to Veran Someone should put a picture of Veran up right next to a picture of Midna for a comparison. I would do it but I don't know how to put pictures up.Hero Of Hyrule 16:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Hero_Of_Hyrule

I've removed the stuff about Majora's Mask because there's no citation and simply comparing the two can tell you it's wrong. The comparison to Veran seems valid. Anyone think it's worth adding a note that there seems to be a resemblance between Onox and Zant as well? It's noted on Zant's page and it's an interesting coincidence but I can't see any real reason for it. Corbo 14:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the removal. The same user also addded that info to the Majora article as well. --69.156.206.239 05:29, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The Fused Shadow doesn't look like majora's mask, but the part the covers the eye bears a striking resemblance to it. I think that is what the other user was trying to get at.

Midna true form and spoilers

Appropriate picture?

Not that the picture of Midna in her true form isn't very pretty and all, but I'm unaware of how to put up pictures, and I think one of her as she is in 99.9% of the game would be appropriate (as the imp, that is). Anyone able to put one up? Kylara21 01:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there a way to mark Midna's true form as a spoiler - sometimes people may want to finish the game first to reveal Midna's form. hylian_loach 06:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It was below the spoiler tags, to be fair.

Sorry, but it is rather hard to not notice it, and I see comment tags have been added pointing this out =D hylian_loach 23:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Will people STOP putting the picture back up? ~Just a Lazy Guest 22:20, 19 December 2006 (EST)

it was under the spoiler lines but if you look around enough wikipedia is full of people who dont care and realy thats just the way it will continue to be. sry but like those people have told me if you dont want to see it dont look :P. not that i think it should be that way or that people can delet stuff to the point that a page is worthless but o weel, right? 70.190.109.11 07:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC) dogbite

Lack of Midna's true form pic

Why is that?

The entire story section is a spoiler fest. So why are you REMOVING IT, I don't get it. The story info is a spoiler already. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.44.86.202 (talk) 04:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

People don't need to read the section if they don't want to. But it's kind of hard to not see a picture. ~ Just a Lazy Guest —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.63.82.238 (talk) 04:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

And for that reason, I've replaced the image with a link. That ok? Gaiacarra 16:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it is not. These discussions are a few weeks old, mine is not.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 20:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

-you guys need to return it to how it was yesterday, when the pic was in a link format...this way it doesn't spoil it for everyone else...yeah its under the Spoilers but its a picture...kind of hard not to notice it

See my discussion below.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 21:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Image

There is absolutely no reason that this image of Midna should not be included in the article. There are spoiler tags there for a reason, and there is no decent way of dealing with this situation. Other than statements by "Just a Lazy Guest", there appears to be nothing else mentioned against the retention of the image. If it is not linked, it is deleted. It is being used in an encyclopedic context to describe the character within the game, and there is no free alternative. Seeing as this article is only extremely small on my screen, the spoiler tags exist for a reason for users with smaller screen resolutions.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 10:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems that no matter where the picture is placed, there's always someone to complain about it and remove it (They're out there...). I think the way it was before, with a link and all, is a good compromise. I agree that it's irritating and that there's no reason why people should not expect to see it in a spoiler-ridden site, but I don't think this issue will clear up unless one group (in this case, the picture supporters, unfortunately, as there will always be those to take it down) gives in, or unless we can just be pragmatic on the issue. I will add that with my screen resolution, I *can* see the picture in plain sight without scrolling down.74.104.159.148 1:52, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Collating and summary

I've just combined all the talk regarding the Midna's true form and spoilers under its own subsection so its easier to follow. I'll put myself down for agreement with Ryūlóng. The image should be included in the article as it is important information regarding the character. The spoiler tag is already there so readers have been forewarned of spoilers. And furthermore, according to Wikipedia:Spoiler warning#Unacceptable alternatives, it has already been considered that if readers really do not want to be spoiled, then they would have disabled images from being loaded on their browser, QED. --Paultran 14:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay not so QED -_-. The Wikipedia guidelines doesn't say anything about images and spoilers. Still nevertheless, imo the image should stay up. We could improve this page with more information and push the image further down so its 'better' for readers who don't want to be spoiled. Removing informative images just because it would spoil the story for some readers would be worse for Wikipedia as an encyclopedia. --Paultran 14:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There was a similar dispute like this with Zant's article. I would put up a picture of his unmasked form... then some loop would come along and take it down. I'm downright confused.SilentWind 12:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The simple thing is that you put it back on and contact the person on his/her talk page about what they did and how you disagree.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 20:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It's kind of hard to protect people from their own prying nature. It's their own fault if they decide to search wikipedia for details on a game they have not beaten yet. I personally didn't go anywhere near Wikipedia until I beat Twilight Princess. It seems to me like someone reading Cliff's Notes before reading a book and whining about the spoilers. Commander Regulus 21:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Midna's Hair

People that have played Twilight Princess know that Midna's hair acts as a second hand. It zaps, grabs, and otherwise works as a normal hand(her *real* hands are tiny and near uselessness).

So should the bit about her hair be brought into this? Or is it too trivial a detail? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sorani172 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

I assume that the flexibility of her hair is due to the power of the Fused Shadow on her head, so it would be notable that she can use its power throughout the game. And I was wondering if maybe it would be possible to get a picture of one of the (very brief) helmet-less pictures of imp-Midna, for interest value.

Um... I believe that her "hair" (as you described it) is a hand that is coming out of her head. BassxForte 03:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, we could always mention in it an Abilities section. Or something. Gurko 14:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's literally an extra hand coming out of her head, and not hair. BassxForte 16:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Weak explanation for Midna's feelings for Link

It is stated in the Relationship section on this page that Zelda's personality may have been incorporated into Midna's when they merged. This doesn't hold up very well, seeing how Zelda never saw Link's true form until near the end of the game. So how could she be in love with someone she doesn't even know? It would appear more plausible that Midna developed feelings for Link and an appreciation for Hyrule after Link and Zelda attempted to save her life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.172.171.161 (talk) 21:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree, talk of a relationship is pure speculation DurinsBane87 21:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

-Me again. Forgot to add my name. It'll be Chris "CX" Evans from now on. Anyway, i just noticed the page got edited again and although it has now incorporated some of my information, it has again favoured the argument that "Zelda has feelings for Link". As I attempted to state earlier, this Zelda (as in TP Zelda) does NOT know Link before the events of TP, and does NOT interact with him in human form. Thus she couldn't have developed feelings for Link until she actually saw Link in his true form (which did not occur until the fight with Ganonndorf). Although i find the theory that Zelda and Midna merged personalities interesting, and plausible, i doubt that Zelda had a significant presence within Midna to alter her personality in this way. Though i do believe that Zelda could have merged with Midna and understood her pain once separated, i do not believe that she was a conscious entity within Midna, nor could she affect Midna's personality. I find it more plausible that Midna grew to care about Link and Hyrule... and possibly could have fallen in love with Link, but that is up for debate.

I plan to make this a little more neutral, and i'll also add that the "Zelda has feelings for Link" theory is challenged, and direct users to the discussion page here if they really care why

Chris "CX" Evans

206.172.171.161 23:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

All theorizing etc. is speculation, and thus has no place on the article. JackSparrow Ninja 23:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, again. Wikipedia is not a place for fans to post their theories and ideas. Wikipedia is for facts. DurinsBane87 00:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

-I've added a little about debates on the issue. Although i've posted no direct links to any on the article, i have some here for examples

http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=zelda_tp&message.id=203537

http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=zelda_tp&message.id=203193

Chris "CX" Evans 206.172.171.161 00:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The Nintendo forums are not a reliable source. Fanshipping can never be accurately sourced. Unless Midna explicitly said in the game "I love you, Link," then nothing should be mentioned to state such the fact.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 00:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Though I can't agree more on not using the Nintendo forums, if it sooths your mind, the best comment to do that comes from said forum:

She could have said "...will miss you." That's most likely.

That actually is the most likely. I'm sure she was planning on destroying the mirror for a while, so she could make sure nothing like that happens again.

Cheers JackSparrow Ninja 01:58, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe that it was intentionally left open-ended, and there are a lot of possible answers. Wikipedian06 23:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

This is NOT a shipping site, so please leave that type of discussion and all other fancruft off the Wikipedia. Here, we state only the facts as they are presented literally. Thank you. Wikipedian06 22:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I only realy read the top and i say that some one thought that zeld liked link. in this game and in the others that is not the case. for one thing there have only ben to "romantic" things that have happend and that was in the LOZ OT when link got hit by an enyme in the last stage she gasped and in the first game they have one kisss. also if you look zelda look under the relationships and you will see that in an interview the crator said that there wasw nothing between them but he did say that navi liked link.

Ok... let me explain how it happened in-game, Zelda never saw Link himself before the final battle, Zelda's sacrifice had no direct influence on Midna's personality, later in the game (right before Link goes to the Twilight Palace to face Zant) Midna states that the sacrifices Link and Zelda made inspired her to desire the protection of the realm of light as well, any apperant "love" from Midna towards Link, most likly came from some sort of attachment from the amount of time they spent together, and the fact Link had saved her life a number of times. BassxForte 20:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

HELL YEA! (sry i just thought i should throw in my two cents....that all)

Please sign your posts mr. "Hell Yea", anyway, I don't think this page should even mention that it is possible to interphet a few scenes into a attraction from Midna towards Link, cuz' it would still be speculation. BassxForte 17:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Speculation or not, I'm unsure of the certainty of the following content: "Link... I... See you later..." The "I..." was added in by the localization team at Nintendo of America and was not present in the original Japanese version. The original Japanese text was "Link...s...see you." -- Is it known for certain that NoA added it? Not to ship, but doesn't the Japanese version of a certain three-word phrase start with an s? Seriously, not shipping here. But doesn't that leave the possibility that the broken-off phrase was left intentionally open-ended, and that the translation team were under instruction to preserve the nature of that? Which in turn would make "NoA added it" unverified. 84.69.116.139 15:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The English text was technically the original since it was released first, localization staff or not. 208.101.136.230 23:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Guys Nintendo never i repeat NEVER open up on the Zelda,Midna, Ilia thing so you can get facts about their feelings. However you can put down the fact that fans BELIEVE they have feelings —Preceding unsigned comment added by GoldenWolfy (talk • contribs) 14:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, who said that they ever were in love with each other? I mean, can't the two strong characters not fall in love just because they are a boy and a girl? Midna and Link clearly love each other, but as extremly close and inseperable friends (even though they do have to part in the end). Throughout the entire story, they exchange looks and touches that could be deciphered as romantic interest, but could more likely be seen as a bond of two close chums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.81.69.103 (talk) 02:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler Tag

I added a spoiler tag, after my girlfriend (who is still playing the game) saw midna's true form without warning. :) Lordofchaosiori 05:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Midna Fan Forum

I read in the guidelines that message board links are not recommended/approved on Wiki pages... Just wondering if possibly an exception could be made in this case. The forum I'll link to has many members who are "Midna Experts", you might say. We also would like an easy link for people to use to find in-depth information and discussion because Google doesn't show the site very easily for some reason.

If the general consensus is 'no', well, I'm not gonna argue. I can see how this could construe advertising and I hate it when people advertise on Wikipedia.

Here's the URL. http://midna.kg13.com/forum/index.php

BTW, someone HAD been putting the link up and then it was deleted, about 4 times... Not sure why they continued to do so without asking first. It was not me or anyone I know, however.

EDIT: just noticed that the link is on there again..... did someone already approve it? or is that same person (or a different one) trying to circumvent the rules again...?

Rosseloh 17:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello I posted the above link on the article three times, but I believe somebody else from the site replaced the deleted link too. I was unaware that linking to a forum was against Wikipedia rules, so I'm sorry about that. I don't run, or work for, the Midna Fan Forum, and was just posting the link because I thought it was appropriate. MFF is, after all, dedicated to the character Midna and therefore pertains to the subject of this article. If you still decide the link can't stay on the page, I won't add it again. 88.111.119.179 18:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. No offense meant by my comments about the rules. So, anyone extremely familiar with the rules or in charge here who could consider the request? We of the forum are all anticipating. Rosseloh 00:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

We don't need that link here. What more information is there that isn't already covered in the game? That's right: nothing. Wikipedian06 10:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I think, a deeper source for getting Char Related Infos will be useful. Because there is a lack of an official Nintendo Page relating this Entity (Midna), the Forum will be fine (just my 2 Cents) - Markus Quatember —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.132.5.204 (talk) 10:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

A forum is not a source for any useful information here, especially one on a single character from a single game.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 21:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there's an official site that describes her. There's also the game, and soon enough the Encyclopedia will have info on her. Forums are fanmade, and not at all acceptable, unless it's "external links".KrytenKoro 05:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Midna's true apperance

T think that picture of Midna's actual form should be changed, it only shows us her face, is their a picture that shows more of her body at once? BassxForte 03:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The picture I uploaded got deleted because of some copyright crap. Goddamn. If you guys need pictures of her just let me know. I have plenty. Ive seen my pics pop up all over the net.

This is one of them: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/Futtis/massivespoilers.jpg. Why not add *gasp* more than one pic to the site?

Also, Ive uploaded a link to one of my pics below the one with Link holding Midna in his arms. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/Futtis/midnaandlink.jpg This is a better one that I took a while ago, use it if you like it.

Back of Midna's helmet

I took a picture of the back of midna's helmet and it looks a lot like the eye part of the Sheikah symbol. Give me a few days and I'll upload it. 72.134.69.228 05:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

My contributions

I have contributed by revising a few things such as gameplay and rearranging the articles. I hope you like what I've done. --74.194.118.12 10:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

A future for Midna? (moved from the artcle)

In a recent interview with Game Informer Online, Eiji Aonuma said, "Because of the way Twilight Princess ended, I don't see her making a reappearance, but who knows. If we hear enough voices for her to come back, how can we not?"

elaborate later, right now it just seems like its a question on the main page. as a temporary fix, i removed it and added it here, but later when more solid evidence comes to light; not some speculation. Vicgp3 05:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

If you have a problem with the title of the section, why not just change it? What Aonuma said in the interview is certainly relevant. As he said, the ending makes her reappearance unlikely, but he's open to the idea, and that needs to be included in the article. The information itself isn't speculation. The POV is in the title. Schrödinger 05:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if she's going to appear in the next future Zelda game, but I don't know if she's going to be in SSBB or not. ~ Girla PurpleHeart 21:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

lol no way she would that games to far in development (god i hope she dosnt or im gonna feel dumb) but evry one better let em know they want her bak in the game or ill wanna die...70.190.109.11 07:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

early design vs. new design

Could someone move that to the trivia section? I feel that it belongs there.

00:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

This is ridiculous.

The image used for Midna's true form is hideous and blurry. Every time a better image is added (such as my version) it gets reverted. Why do we insist on keeping the same image? --Guess Who 00:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably cause people always complain about spoilers, but seriously post your version it looks better and it has more detail, the spoiler tag isn't there for nothing. -DDF 02:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, go for it!

Yeah, I think that you should post your version too. Hope it doesn't get reverted. Akarshi 18:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC) Yay!Thecolourrose

YOUR version? I took that picture. WiseDuck's the name btw. I also posted a new version of that other pic on the right, but it got reverted. Wikipedia is one weird page alright.

The Relationship With Link section

It is debatable if Midna actually has an attraction to Link. Do we really need to type up that? Also, it is also debatable if Midna actually loves Link. I don't think that we really need to put in the stuff about 'attraction' and 'love'? 24.4.71.205 18:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. That part has always bothered me. It's good to see that the whole thing about (romantic) love and attraction got removed. However, I do think that Midna and Link have a strong bond; it's just not necessarily love. Akarshi 18:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

She could just be flirting with him...ya know, saving her life on more than one ocasion...i think...

I don't think that Midna was flirting with Link on any occasion. I do not remember any 'flirting' on Midna's part in the game, after all, and I still think that it's highly unlikely that Midna and Link have anything more than a strong friendship. 24.4.71.205 18:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Well you have your opinion and i respect it but its not right out of the window (the link an midna idea i mean) because in this one game midna hade more "moments" with link than zelda had in all of them and the majority of people think they have a relationship. (not me but most that i have talked to) 70.190.109.11 07:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

And a majority of people also think that Axel and Demyx have sex, even though they are only ever in the same room when the organization is having a meeting. Midna knows Link is taken by Ilia - the most Midna got was "I'm worried that you, my friend, are about to die", and "I'm startled that you no longer look like a hideous goblin". Also possibly "I'm sad to see my traveling companion leave forever".KrytenKoro 07:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Guys lets be honest out of the romance standings here is the score of fans that believe who Link is with (In this game)

Midna:Most

Ilia:Second most

No Romance:Third

Zelda:Least

But you know what there is NO PROOF whatsoever that your right if you say you have proof you will be lucky to have your source read because i will know that either ur source is bad OR that your source didnt follow through on what you said. Guys me personally i think this relationship thing is part of the game, I think they made it possible for anyone to create more fun in the story and add romance. Now let me state this once and once only THERE IS NO FACTS FOR LinkxMidna LinkxIlia or LinkxZelda, This applies to all games. We have ONE fact and here it is

Alot of Zelda fans THINK that there is a MidnaxLink or IliaxLink.

Thats it nothing else. Do me one favor guys dont try to convert anyone unless they try to convert u first cause all it does is create argument —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.233.97 (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

It...really doesn't matter at all what the few Zelda fans you know think. Hell, most forums get annoyed if you try to bring that up as part of your argument, and it's certainly not the kind of material Wikipedia covers.

But just to humor you:

• Google Search for "Link loves Midna": 57300 results
• Google Search for "Link loves Ilia": 246000 results.

Sooo...uh...how the hell are you getting the idea that LinkxMidna is the most popular?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 22:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Funny 64,900 for Midna 28,500 for Ilia Do we rly need to lie now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.255.31 (talk) 01:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

-Although I have no problem with Link hooking up with Midna because she is totally awesome, I still think their relationship is that of very dear friends, and I hardly think that they have ever flirted with each other or anything of the sort just because they have saved each other's lives more than once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.81.69.103 (talk) 03:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Midna survived?

I don't want to make an edit without knowing I'm right, so here's a question. This article says that Midna wasn't killed by Ganondorf and she survived. I could be wrong here, but didn't she in fact die? If I remember correctly, the Light Spirits revived her. - 88.196.24.133 17:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that Midna died. The Light Spirits just reversed her curse. Tell me if I'm wrong, (I didn't beat the game yet.) but I saw several cutscenes and I believe that Ganondorf just led Link to think that Midna had been killed when in fact she didn't get killed. Akarshi 18:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Midna din't die, she broke the mirror at the end of the game and went into the twilight.--OneLastTime93 (talk) 17:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Um, we don't really know for sure. I have beaten the game and he just crushes her helmet, and we don't actualy see her since the castle. So we can't really say she's dead...as for the light spirits reviving her, no one knows either. They could have been getting Link's attention, they could have been reviving her, we still don't know. The curse Zant put on her turned her into an imp, when Zant killed himself, she turned back into her normal self. Any thing else? 15:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I've seen this come up on the Ganon talk page and Twilight Princess talk page, and now it's beginning on this page. It has to do with Ganon and Zant, and how their life forces are connected. There are actually three schools of thought on this. Whoever posted the previous unsigned entry believes that Zant and Ganondorf depend on each other for life, and if one dies, the other dies. This theory often goes with the claim that Zant snapped his own neck to kill Ganondorf. Another theory says that Zant depends on Ganon for life, but Ganon doesn't require Zant, at least not after he is recharged. This theory is often suported by Zant's claim that he is immortal as long as Ganon is alive. The third theory, which I go with, is that there is no life force link between them. Ganon used Zant to recharge, then severed any such links to avoid problems like those mentioned in the first theory. This is also supported by Zant's claim that he is immortal, but is understood to say that as long as Ganon is alive, he will ressurect his followers, though a character analysis of Ganon says that he probably would not. These are the theories, that no one reads a similar statement and says, "huh?" By the way, I believe that the consensus on the Ganon and Twilight Princess talk pages was that reference to these theories is not allowed, since consensus on which theory is right seems imposible to get, plus it often results in Original Research. Bucky 22:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Um, I did sign it...well whatever. I never said they were dependant on each other for life. If that's how it came out, I'm sorry. No, they aren't dependant to each other for life...not really anyway. Gannondorf was dependent on Zant to let him come back to Hyrule, since he was banished to the Twilight realm. Once Zant was defeted in Twilight Princess he resided in his spirit form until Gannondorf could revive him. Then, when Gannondorf was defeted, Zant DID kill himself. Gannondorf, then lost his ability to stay in the realm of Hyrule... 23:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I only say it's not signed because your name is not showing up after your post for some reason, only the date of your post. Oh well. Anyway, the consensus on the point of this thread (Did Ganondorf kill Midna?) seems to be...no consensus. The line should probably be something like "Ganondorf apeared in the middle of the field, holding Midna's helmet in his hand. He crushed it, and then rushed Link and Zelda." As for the topic that we accidentally got onto, it's probably more appropriate on a different talk page. I'm gonna move it to the Twilight Princess talk page. It will have an obvious title, and will start with my question for the mystery guy whose name is not showing up for some reason. See ya there. Bucky 05:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Is that your favorite word or something? Consensus? Cause I've seen it use by you like three differnt times...well, whatever. Ok have fun with that. 15:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

One of the things I've learned here is that things are decided by a consensus of several people on Wikipedia rather than democratic vote or decision by just one person. That's what I've learned to look for when there is a dispute. Bucky 21:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

PS - My favorite word is actually chicken. It's so fun to say. Bucky 21:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. But you can't vote on what the truth is. You'll (and we'll) just have to wait and see what Nintendo says about it. 21:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, Touche. Bucky 21:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh, heh. Thecolourrose

I find it kinda funny that it took all that talk up there just to come to the conclusion that we dont know. Not dumb just funny :). and chikin aint to fun I like bungalo better... 70.190.109.11 07:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

picture pliz!

The old one was removed because it "lacked sources" (pbbt... and I speak of the one at the top of the page), so could someone re-upload it to ImageShack and link to it from here. Thanks. Deku-Scrub 21:59, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Lead Picture

It's nice that we have a lead picture again and all, but this seems inappropriate for a lead picture, and I don't have any spoiler concerns. She looks like this for a grand total of five minutes in the entire game, so wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a shot of her as an imp for the lead picture? Just a thought. Bucky 05:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Bad picture

Midna's true form is not her most recognizable form. We need her average form that people spend 45+ hours seeing.

Does Midna really need her own article?

Midna only appears in Twilight Princess, I think she should just be merged with the list of characters in twilight princess. You don't see King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, aka the King of Red Lions, with his own article, because he only appears in one game. Takuthehedgehog 02:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

It's most likely because she's a very popular character, and has a backstory larger than most of Link's "helpers". But as you say, she's only appeared once. Gurko 17:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, she does. Just look at how long this article is! 24.4.71.205 18:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Midna does seem like she has enough information to warrant her own article, although she does have less information then Majora's article had, and it got deleted. I'm pretty sure Zant doesn't have enough info for an article though. Takuthehedgehog 23:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think a character who interacts with the player and helps them throughout the game is more notable and deserving of an article than a NPC boss enemy anyway. Not saying that should be any sort of criterion for this; just stating how I see it. At any rate, I agree with Gurko on how more fleshed-out her backstory is. The whole game was named after her, in fact. She seems pretty notable to me. --DarkfireTaimatsu 19:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe that Midna has enough information to have her own page. Notrdangschool 15:52, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes, sure! She does have enough info and she plays a very important role in her "only game". I say leave it. Telemachus Claudius Rhade 16:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

She's a one-game character, and Eiji Aonuma has said that she probably won't return. All of the rest of the LoZ characters who have their own articles have appeared in multiple installments. For example, Tingle has been in every game since Majora's Mask. Plus, a lot of the info in the article is essentially copied from the plot section in the main TP article, and can be trimmed down. Wikipedian06 02:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge

"It has been suggested that this article be merged... (Discuss)" - Ten days later, and that discussion has not one mention of such a merge, heh. 84.69.116.139 23:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Midna should be merged, per Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Pagrashtak 00:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I believe Midna deserves her own section. There have been many other characters than her that appear multiple times, such as Malon, the Postman, Kaepora Gaebora that do not receive their own article. Other major characters in games like Marin or Navi don't receive their own articles. I believe other one-time characters haven't been given their own article because they have never served as much purpose as Midna has. Navi served basically Midna's purpose in Ocarina of Time, yet had a much less substantial role (I believe that's an oxymoron... "much less"). I think everyone should note that Twilight Princess has focused on the story much more than any other game, so characters within this Zelda are much more developed and are, therefore, more to talk about. 74.70.7.38 00:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I support the merge. 69.181.82.17 04:44, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

That's because most of those characters are merely cameos (like the Postman) - not really notable characters. As for Midna - she still ONLY APPEARS IN ONE GAME. If she made frequent appearances AND was important (like Tingle or Zelda), she would warrant her own article, but she didn't - she appeared in one game and also endeavored to make sure she doesn't appear in any others.

King of Red Lions was a similar character (very important to the story, appears in only one game and makes sure he never appears again), but he doesn't have his own page. If anything, that's what we should compare to.

To put the nail in Midna's tiny coffin - all of the information on this page (barring cruft) is a reiteration of the plot or material on the characters page - this page is completely unnecessary.

By the way, much is not the opposite of less - it's a multiplier of quality, not quantity. You don't have much bugs, you have much MORE bugs.KrytenKoro 05:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and put in the redirect link, since anything important on this page is already on the characters page. People will be able to get the same information by searching for Midna, so all will be good.KrytenKoro 05:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

You dont pay attention do u? Have u ever searched the web? because if you had you would see loads of Midna foruns sites ect shes everywhere not just this game. King of Red Lions after his game he was rarely spoke of again. Midna well theres LOADS of shit about her. I dont see how you can say with a straight face that shes nothing bigger than King of Red Lions.....Or are you a Midna hater? No im not condeming u if u r, you just seem like one big time67.121.231.107 (talk) 14:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)MonkeyKing(lol)

Im not so sure about Probably not return because he said if he heard enough voices.....well go look on the internet ull see what i mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.233.97 (talk) 14:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

...have you ever even tried to listen to anyone else, or read the wikipedia policies? Without a large amount of third-party, reputable sourcing, this article has to be merged or deleted. Merging allows us to preserve the bulk of the information. Deletion causes the page to disappear. Seriously, you have a huge problem with not thinking at all before opening your trap.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 22:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Midna is just way to huge of a character to be merged, Its not hurting any of u god —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.249.1 (talk) 01:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Merge. The point isn't how "huge" she is, but the fact that she only appears in one game, and over half of the text is common to the List of characters page. There was no reason to recreate this article in the first place. Wikipedian06 (talk) 08:50, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Only 1 person out of 12 has suggested it, there is alot more info here if we moved the info from this page to the other list of characters y not? But this has way more info and factsPuppetMaster123 (talk) 00:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)MonkeyChicken

Midna should not be merged. She is a widely known character, popular at that. She has a detailed and strong background and plot, more so than most (or any) other zelda character I know. She has a huge fanbase; what does it matter that she only appeared in one game. This is a ridiculous excuse to merge her; you cannot exclude her just because she has appeared in one game, think of all the films and games which have no sequels yet still have page about them. Let Midna keep her unique page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.90.237 (talk) 16:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

As much as I'd like to see it stay(I'm a member of a fanforum), wiki policies dictate otherwise. Find absolute proof that she will be in another game, and it could probablly stay. I'm not really sure why this page was restored since it hasn't been confirmed yet. And at the person above me, a game or movie is one thing, but a character in said game or movie is another thing entirely. And my mind just went blank, so I may add more to this particular arguement tomorrow Capgun2713 (talk) 04:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd rather see this merged that deleted outright. Because even if Midna isn't worthy of her own article, AT LEAST she is worthy of is a spot in the character list for Twilight Princess. --Invader TAK (talk) 08:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it is safe to say that pages are given out to popular themes and characters. For example an unpopular film which not many people have seen may not receive its own page, unlike a very popular film which has been seen by everyone will have its own page. To characters it is no exception. This 'rule' which people keep referring to about a character having to appear in more than one game in order have a page is flawed. The only logical reason for this 'rule' is that as more games are released with that certain character involved, the more important and popular he/she/it becomes. Midna has received more attention and popularity than any other character since link, zelda and Ganon (and maybe tingle...). As far as I am aware, her story is deeper than any other as well; do we actually know anything about zelda in each game? As someone mentioned above me, just look at the size of this page! I think that Midna should keep her own page and at Invader TAK above me, she already has a spot in the character list. As for the comment about her returning for certain, we are working on that and are attempting a number of things to get her to return. Sorry for the blable, and good day. Theonlyone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.90.237 (talk) 13:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Kryten i know u h8 Midna dont deny it. Hmmm well fact is the wikipedia rules say we SHOULD merge this but there is a problem however, this Midna page has MUCH more info than the other one, I say we merge IF we put all the info on this page on the other one.PuppetMaster123 (talk) 15:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)Paul

Why not just leave it as it is? Its not like the page is killing anyone, so what is the harm? (if there is one then sorry, but Midna is worth it :) )

I understand where your coming from and i want it to stay too but these guys will get their ways with their rule obsessed ideas i accept that but they would have to keep all the facts on this one —Preceding unsigned comment added by PuppetMaster123 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, clearly someone has taken the initiative and merged it. Puppet, The important details are present there, everything else is removed. Thats how merges work. And taking shots at other members is not the way to debate something. Kryten(who's last post here was over a year ago), was simply following the rules, which are there for a reason. Personal attacks are not necessary. Capgun2713 (talk) 04:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

We'll see about this when she reapppears in another game! She shall have her own page! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.90.237 (talk) 13:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Needs some work

Sorry guys, but I'm quite suprised that this article is B-rated. It does not give a synopsis of the story but rather a point-by-point recount as well as containing far too much minutiae. It's written in "In-Universe" too, see WP:WAF. Ashnard _Talk 18:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have a feeling somone is going to vandalize this soon so we need to be prepared to ask for protection should this happen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.110.249.1 (talk) 01:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)