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Major revision needed

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I think that this page should be renamed (moved to) Tomb Raider characters and the following pages should be merged into it:

I suggest this because all of the above pages have serious issues with sources, notability, and they are mostly written from an in-universe perspective. I'd like this page to be something similar to Indiana Jones characters, with characters sorted by which game introduces them. Any thoughts or objections?~ Dusk Knight 22:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the page to Tomb Raider characters and added links and brief descriptions for major characters. However, it has occurred to me that much of the content here may be redundant considering most of the TR game pages have character sections. So, is it better to have a centralized character page and merge character sections from the game pages? Or would it be better to merge the information from this page into the appropriate game pages? There's really no reason to have both.~ Dusk Knight 21:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's a good idea what you have decided to do, if you need any help please feel free to ask for it. Tuloc (talk) 08:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback. I've merged the TRA and TR3 character lists here. I've only just gotten around to tagging the above character pages so I will hold off on those for a while.~ Dusk Knight 05:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is an issue with how the article is presented at the moment. Tomb Raider has two continuities (pre-legend and the current one). This isn't too clear - especially with figures like Zip who only has an entry under Tomb Raider Chronicles, which is non canonical with his legend appearance. Similarly Winston is described under Tomb Raider 2 despite much of the infomation being from a second continuity. I'm not against having the characters by the game they first appear in but should the fact that there are two continuities not overule this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.184.177 (talk) 17:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps recurring characters should have their own "sections", rather than under the specific game they first appeared in. I agree that it is slightly confusing when characters appear in two or more games (especially across the two continuities). ~~ [Jam][talk] 20:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think Dusk Knight might get over their unwarranted self-importance and leave this page alone. The major Bond villian, Blofeld, has his own Wikipedia page. Natla is the major Tomb Raider villian. Don't merge her with anything. 77.102.212.40 (talk) 18:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I had an "unwarranted self-importance" why would I even bother asking for feedback? If you look at Wikipedia's policies of notability and verifiability, you will see that the Natla article fails to meet both of them. That could be used as grounds to delete or redirect the page, but I'd rather try to salvage the information. If you want to try and improve the article to Wikipedia's standards so it doesn't need to be merged, please do.~ Dusk Knight 06:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Either way for goodness sake don't merge the Larson article. It may need improving but he is a MAJOR character - LAra's first kill and as such a central part of the new continuity. His relations with Lara and moral ambiguity mean he deserves his own page not just a pathetic two line thing like what we have on the characters page currently. In honesty I miss the old article on Amanda too - I thought it was interesting and deserved its own page too (though i know nothing about wiki policies - merely a casual observer here) 217.43.148.124 (talk) 22:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

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I suggest that the character sections from the various Tomb Raider game articles be merged into this article because there is a great deal of redundancy among these sections. A centralized character page will keep the character descriptions consistent and will allow for more useful redirects for recurring characters like Winston (Tomb Raider) and Zip (Tomb Raider). Also, I should mention that I have done the opposite for the Game Boy characters since this page had a lot more information than the actual game pages.~ Dusk Knight 21:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some major redirect cleanups this afternoon. By adding <span id="character name"> tags to character entries, I've been able to redirect some existing character articles to their entries in the relevant sections on this page, instead of either the game character list here or the actual game article. ~~ [Jam][talk] 16:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Great! I was wondering if there was a way to do that without making each character entry a subsection.~ Dusk Knight 02:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I only recently discovered how to do it (mainly by inspection of the how the WP:"SHORTNAME" links work) and have implemented it with (some?) success over on the Hollyoaks character pages. ~~ [Jam][talk] 07:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New suggestion

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I suggest some things, that the articles:

Only Werner von Croy is a character very close to Lara, but he's appearance in games is short, Kurtis is like a flash (down moral) appearance and the others are enemies. There is no important character in all Tomb Raider franchise other then Lara, she has no related characters, and she shares nothing with anyone. Every related character to Lara is dead. I think it's important not to present the carracters with their one pages. The Tomb Raider characters article is great and shows that Lara isn't getting to close to any character but she has many friends. Thank you.

Tulok (talk) 19:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kurtis is the second playable character in the Tomb Raider franchise. As such, he warrants his own separate page. All other characters are just supporting players. Besides, there is a truckload of information about Kurtis which deserve its own page. This whole 'Lara doesn't need anybody' stance is irrelevant. Whether you like it or not, Kurtis is the second most important character in TR canon after Lara. Please stop trying to trivialise him. (86.150.30.177 (talk) 18:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

  • I'm sorry but in no way can it be argued that the current Tomb Raider Characters article is great - its pretty much impossible to tell which infomation matters in which continuity and any article that has the phrase 'Almost all these characters are in the re-make' is not going to pass as a good article. One or two lines on the characters Lara has encountered is not sufficent. 86.165.61.84 (talk) 13:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Major Improvements Have Been Made

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First off thanks to the person who edited this page. It is much better now by far. I want to suggest seperating the original tomb raider and the Anivversery version now and tidying Zip's content in the same way. I think, especially considering the new trailer that we cannot have any 'marring' of the two continuities or it's going to be a nightmare to understand. If nobody objects i can do this or somebody else can, i'm not bothered 86.131.180.171 (talk) 22:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok if nobody has any objections I'll start the modifications tomorrow. It may also see some infomation moved from the characters pages to the Differences section in Anniversery, i'm not sure yet. 86.131.180.127 (talk) 11:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Go ahead - can't see any problems with what you're suggesting. ~~ [Jam][talk] 18:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough - just wanted to check cos i'm not a registered member lol 81.157.107.7 (talk) 19:26, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As long as they're constructive edits, there's no reason for you not to go ahead and edit the page. ~~ [Jam][talk] 19:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Ok i've made the changes so the continuities are totally seperate now. I need to add a few things to the Anniveresy differences list now (ie no skate park) but i'll do that later as my eyes are killing me lol I've made two sets of recurring characters, one for each continuity. hope this version of the list is ok :-D 81.132.45.252 (talk) 14:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It looks good. I've made a few more changes myself (mainly removing the bar [|] links where they were unnecessary) and also some spelling and grammar corrections. ~~ [Jam][talk] 09:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for Recurring Characters

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Recurring Characters in the Tomb Raider game series A Recurring characters page where characters such as Natla, Larson, Pierre and Von Croy Can go and still have a fair amount of information.Super Badnik 20:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I think it would be fine to merge those characters directly into this page. We might trim down some things since there is no need to reiterate the plot synopses from the game pages. But they don't need to be as short as most of the characters here. If we need to have multiple Tomb Raider character articles due to length concerns or to stay in the 32KB safe zone, I would suggest doing something like this:
  • split "Core Design continuity" to Tomb Raider characters (Core Design)
  • split "Crystal Dynamics continuity" to Tomb Raider characters (Crystal Dynamics)
  • merge film characters into the film articles
~ Dusk Knight 03:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My only concern with the title - "recurring characters" - is that the proposed characters have only appeared in two games each (aside from Winston and Von Croy). Surely "recurring" should mean that they have been in the vast majority of the Tomb Raider games. There are also the issues of the back stories for the characters changing across the continuities.
Therefore, I think Dusk Knight's suggestion of a character page for each continuity with a general link back to the character's page for an overview, and then more specific continuity information in the main character page. ~~ [Jam][talk] 07:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Dusk Nights Idea too - also i was going to expand on some of the characters details (ie Amanda in TRL) so it was more than just two lines but my PS2 broke so I gave up on that till it gets fixed. 86.164.27.177 (talk) 00:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need of disputes on TR characters, the best solution is to merge each character to every article of the respective video game. --Tulok (talk) 12:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Now that you mention it that probably is the best solution for characters who are only in one game. That would also leave plenty of room to merge recurring characters here.~ Dusk Knight 05:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, then we should do it like this: we should keep the Recurring Characters article and the characters who are only in one game from the Tomb Raider characters article, should be merged as I already said, to every article of the respective video game

Just clarifying - characters that have only appeared in one game will appear in the respective game page, and characters that appeared in more than one game will appear in the Tomb Raider characters article? ~~ [Jam][talk] 08:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that sounds right. We might make exceptions for characters like Kurtis Trent and some of the TR1/Anniversary cast though (meaning have them on this page).~ Dusk Knight 00:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So! Is it settled? Tulok (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me. Who wants to make the changes then (and face the wrath of those who don't like the idea?) :D ~~ [Jam][talk] 19:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kurtis Trent

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Now, theres no doubt that this article should be merged. He is quite a minor character in the Tomb Raider series let alone in real world. There is no to very little out-of-universe info such as third party information or comments. It's about time we actually did something about this, so, which article should we merge it into? This one or AoD?Super Badnik 12:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is now a great deal of information on his page. I am not sure if that changes things or not, but all the same the article is quite a bit longer and more in-depth now.198.161.230.10 (talk) 19:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the source you cited for the "extended" biography is dubious, in my opinion. It is a fan site, with no confirmation from the original author as to whether or not it is correct - we only have the site's word to go on. Unless an official source can be found, it is likely that section will be removed as unsourced. ~~ [Jam][talk] 21:57, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What would be considered an official source? The email address of the game's writer? Just as somthing to go on, because I can't see much of any other way to get a 'official source' aside from press releases (which won't happen seeing as the character is considered dead and gone by the company).

The original author is the one who gave the information. Perhaps a link to his emails in their entirety would be acceptable as a source?198.161.230.10 (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps convincing a reliable source to update their Kurtis Trent page with these "enhanced" details might serve that purpose? TombRaiderChronicles.com is considered a fairly reliable source on WP, so if they were willing to update their Kurtis page then we might be willing to accept these new details. As such, giving the author's email address and/or the emails in their entirely will probably still be unsuitable. ~~ [Jam][talk] 17:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. That won't work. KTEB.net received the information as an exclusive and is in no way associated with TRC (as in, they refuse to associate with the site's owner). I'll look into the matter further to find a way to amend the issue of reputable sources.198.161.230.10 (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Having considered it, Planet Lara or Lara Croft Online might be approached about it, as they are equally a reputable source as TRChronicles. I'm assuming the only issue of reputability is having been given exclusives by Eidos, and both of those sites fit the criteria.198.161.230.10 (talk) 17:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merging by Super Badnik

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Natla, the character from Tomb Raider, until a few days ago had her own page on Wikipedia, but someone has deleted it and has written instead a smaller section in the Tomb Raider Recurring Characters page. How can I get Natla's page restored? She is not just another minor character (like Zip, Larson, etc), but Lara's main antagonist, and deserves a page even more than Kurtis Trent, another TR character with an individual page, and her co-rulers Qualopec and Tihocan, who are also comparatively minor characters but who have their own entries. Ostercy (talk) 08:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only reason Kurtis still has his own page is that nobody has bothered to expand his section of the recurring characters page. Once someone does that, his page will likely be merged into that. Qualopec and Tihocan don't have their own articles so not quite sure what you mean there. Yes, Natla could be considered the main antagonist, but she has only really be in one game (the original Tomb Raider), with her role re-shown in Anniversary. ~~ [Jam][talk] 08:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little cheesed with the merger as there was more support for Dusk Knights idea than SuperBadnicks (no offence to anybody intended) 86.131.167.225 (talk) 11:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is true that Super Badnick did merge the article without consensus, but it is now up to us to discuss and decide how to proceed rather than continuing to unilaterally make changes that don't help to improve the articles involved. ~~ [Jam][talk] 11:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Just so there's no confusion, I suggested my idea after the merge. So Super Badnik didn't go against consensus, there simply wasn't consensus, like Jam said. The problem with giving Natla a separate page is that there currently seems to be no way to establish notability.~ Dusk Knight 05:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, i did the merge into the recurring characters page because nothing actually seems to get done here. God knows how much longer articles like Larson and DuPont would have had the merge tag and still been there with no changes.Super Badnik 16:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

i agree with you that its not all done straight away and i'm not complaining about the merge its more the continuities aspect that worries again (like it did on this page) and as i have 10 books to read this week before uni starts i don't have the time to make the odd change i thought might help lol 86.131.169.208 (talk) 19:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With the release of Underworld have you guys realised what a bad idea it was to merge Natla's individual page into a page about minor characters was yet? Ostercy (talk) 09:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, she still isn't notable enough to have her own article. While Lara Croft is an Icon, Natla is only really a well known figure in the Tomb Raider Fandom.Super Badnik 17:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds a good idea. It seems a little silly to have two character pages for something like Tomb Raider. It's not like Legend of Zelda, which is fifteen games long and amazingly complex, with a lot to be said about Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. I vote for the merging of articles. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:16, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 January 2016

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 05:50, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Tomb Raider characters → List of Tomb Raider characters – Per styleguide and consistency (List of The Last of Us characters, List of characters in the Metal Gear series, List of Call of Duty characters), it's a list of Tomb Raider characters, not an article about those characters. Soetermans. T / C 12:59, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Decomposition

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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#List of Tomb Raider characters czar 16:53, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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