Talk:Lee Youn Chin

Disclosure / Infobox photo / indentation

Hello Wiki editors/helper

Lee Youn Chin, is a relative of mine. Where do I make this disclosure?

Also, I need to upload a photo(s). The info box names of 10 children are not being aligned but gets wrapped around. The table of content is not showing up, although I believe it's supposed to be automatic?

Thanks! Setwikirec0 (talk) 00:44, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 In effect, you have already made the disclosure here: you could specify your relationship if you like. I'm going to do some basic copy-editing to the article. Although Lee Youn Chin is deceased, it is good practise to follow the guidance about biographies of living people. So, for example, we don't need to list the individual names of his children unless they were notable in their own right (i.e. had Wikipedia articles about them). Some of the language you use is not encyclopaedic: for example "to a ripe age of one hundred" and I'll remove it. There are some formatting issues I'll fix as well. Please don't take this as criticism: overall I think you have done a good job of creating the article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Good Morning Michael.

Yes, thanks for removing the names of 10 children as unnecessary (except for 1 son).

You said you will put a blanket on my userpage? What does that mean? I need to publish the Article to mainspace and there's only the Talk and User pages?? I may not want that blanket as I don't understand all that and do not want to cause a break or abandoned article floating. Sorry for my not understanding that.

How do I publish to live the Article of Lee as on google it is pointing to the Talk page.

Thanks Setwikirec0 (talk) 13:53, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello User:Michael D. Turnbull. Trust you are enjoying summer along with your work here at Wiki.

The photos of Lee in the article has been removed yesterday by Krd. These photos were more than 70-75 years old. I would like to undo what Krd did and such copyright or statutes do not apply here with those photots taken in India. Can you please verify and undo that for me? Krd, also deleted the photo of Rev. Gilbert Blaize Rego, which I undid as the photographer already authorized that through VRT on May 5-6th. The left hand and the right hand of VRT, do not seem to know or share data or communication?

Your help and advice again, pls. Thanks Mike!

Setwikirec0 (talk) 13:04, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 Sorry, I'm on holiday with limited internet access. You will have to take this up on Commons with the user who deleted the images. The deletion record says there was no evidence of license status by 3 May, which could be true if you only provided it on May 5. Commons admins can undelete files once you have convinced them the images are public domain or correctly licensed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:12, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Enjoy your holiday, Mike! Thanks! Yes, another helper also did advice me. Hope you have a great summer! Best to you and yours! Setwikirec0 (talk) 22:32, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Lee Youn Chin, was my mother's father. I am Jenny one of his many grandchildren. I grew up in Kolkata, knowing my grandpa who was always busy at the Association, until my parents moved to another city.

All these recollections of events, his life, his family, his work, are imprinted only in the memory of my mother and other relatives. Most of these relatives and the people of those time as my grandfather Lee, are octogerarian, nonagenarian and most long gone. The events may be recorded in the Overseas Commerce of India journals on the community, births, deaths and events of the day, I would wish would not be lost but preserved and digitized. Some historical events as written herein, I am sure could be located with the Kolkata municipal authority or agencies.

My grandfather served a lifetime with a clear vision, formulating plans, taking initiatives, implementing them in the vested interest of the collective whole, the Hakka community in India.

Thank you. Setwikirec0 (talk) 16:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Article not moved to live-Publish? Google search points to Talk:page!

Hello Editor helper,

My Article on google search points to Talk:Lee page and not the Article page.

To avoid double REDIRECT or break in the links, pls advise me how do I correct this problem?

Can I MOVE from Talk Lee Youn Chin to ARTICLE Lee Youn Chin to livespace again?

Its been pointing to wrong page Talk when readers click on it. Wiki displays the Talk page questionaires I have there.

Please help me.

Thank you Setwikirec0 (talk) 04:21, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Translating En article to Chinese (edit problem help-thx)

Hi Translation helpers out there,

I had started to translate my article on Lee to Chinese even though I do not read nor write in that language. But I got outside help to verify the correct spellings of names. Earlier, I had to delete and re-start again as the English article had a minor edit done. It's going good now but still need more work. I have a few questions:

A) One of the paragraph was edited but the citations references got deleted or lost. So the paragraphs following it is all incorrect in numbering order. How do I correct that? Do I delete and restart all over again, fresh and clean?

B) In translating to Chinese, I now find a few minor names would need to be spelled differently in English in order to get the correct Chinese characters. So then, do I have to edit the English names now so that the translation will give exact Chinese spelling? Or do I simply just edit the Chinese name in the Chinese article of Lee?

Setwikirec0 (talk) 01:13, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 For (1), all the previous versions of the English article are here in its edit history, so you just need to go back through earlier versions until you find the correct one with the reference you wish to rescue. Then you can edit that old version to copy out the reference. Do not "save/publish" the old version or you will lose all later corrections. Once you have a copy of the extra citations, edit them into the current version of the article. For (2), make any changes only in the Chinese translation. The many different-language versions of Wikipedia are independent Projects and the content of articles are not simply translations of one another, even if they sometimes begin that way. Do not alter the English article unless that's an improvement here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:59, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Good Morning Mike!

Appreciate your prompt reply and the explanation. I now understand that the article versions are all independent even if translated into another language. The current EN version is good and that is what I am translating from to Chinese. I will not touch the English article and its present version nor edit the spellings.

I only lost citations in one of the middle paragraph in Chinese while editing, after-which the subsequent paragraphs following it, their citations numbering sequence does not match the English cits.

If I could delete my present Chinese translation and re-start again would solve my lost citations sequencing problem. To correct that, I would like to delete my Chinese translation and start again fresh from the current En version. It is OK?

Thanks a ton, Mike! Setwikirec0 (talk) 13:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 I guess you can do what you like with the translation! I can't see any saved version either here or in your global contributions. I have no idea how Chinese-language Wikipedia works but I would have thought that it uses the same wiki software, so that references within <ref> tags (or whatever their Chinese equivalent is) would automatically work and, as here, create correctly-numbered reflists at the foot of the article. Hence you could just insert the missing citation without starting over. However, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to do....note also the advice at WP:TRANSLATEUS. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:36, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I am translating from the current En article. It is still in draft and I have not yet released or submitted it to the Chinese Wiki team, that may be why you do not see or find it yet.

Likely, I will just submit the Chinese translation even with a few broken references, which are in English language anyway and not in Chinese. The main content of the English article is translated and that is the achievement to reach the Chinese Wiki readers.

Once again, I thank you Mike for your reply, your time and help in navigating through this.

Sincerely Setwikirec0 (talk) 15:50, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Tag by User:Vamsi20 ( written as an advertisement) removal pls

Hello Wiki editors or User:Vamsi20

The article on Lee Youn Chin, had been revised and copy-edited by a Wiki editor User:Michael D. Turnbull, who had been very tough, and had deleted a lot of sections, asked for reputable sources/ citations and did major copy-editing to as condensed as the present article.

I beg to differ that you think it is written for an advertisement. Lee's lifelong service and works are in the institutions he had founded for the Hakka community in India. How do you call that an advertisement of events, works and effects on the community? Further, what part of the article needs improvement for grammatical errors or typos?

Your tag is absolutely biased and unfair in my view to give a tag like that. No offence meant personally to you, but solely in the approach taken by your editorial view.

I request you to kindly reconsider and please do delete this tag. Other editors, I would appreciate your input and recommendations as well.

Thanking you kindly

Setwikirec0 (talk) 15:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, hi

One sentence I could find was: "Lee lived a long life of community involvement and service." That just sounds promotional. Before I removed it, the first sentence said he was a "distinguished" Hakka community leader when he seems to be the only community leader, which seems weird considering there's no other Hakka leader to compare him to. Another sentence says, "Lee could not have undertaken the task alone. Working with him on the Chinese Tannery Owners Association board were" which the first part of that sentence sounds unencyclopedic.

"Introducing carbon footprint (recycling) ahead of his time by reducing and recycling the collective byproduct wastage of hide shavings by curing it and selling it for profit. The community benefitted from this recycling scheme." Again, "ahead of his time" isn't really encyclopedic language, and that part could be removed.

To the copy editing part: I was focusing on the "tone" part of the statement, as I put in the section above. I found many formatting errors as well. In one photo, it states the photo credits, when clicking on the image shows who took the photo.

Again, I'm working on a request for another page right now, so I felt these notices would prompt another editor to fix it. Vamsi20 (ask me questions) (see what I've edited) 15:48, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

After checking some more, I found many sections in list format that I feel could be better summarized in regular text format aka prose, so I've added that template as well. I'll also fix this article up a bit once I have some more time. By the way I don't mean any offense to you as an editor, just trying to fix the page. Vamsi20 (ask me questions) (see what I've edited) 16:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Vamsj20, if you too insist like Mike had in terms of not requiring the eight names of Lee's helpers being (not notable), then I am fine with the deletion of those names, except one name, Chen Zaan Xhen.

To the 1) Chinese Tannery Owners Association 2) Overseas Chinese Commerce of India and 3) Pei May High School,

If the below two centers, opened by Lee could be added:

4) the new Chinese Cemetery of India and 5) the Old age senior center.

And if that cannot be added, then it is fine too.

Thanks Setwikirec0 (talk) 23:39, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Good to hear back from you Vamsi20. Lee was the only Hakka Chinese leader since its early years, under whom the tannery community initiatives, institutions, infrastructure were set up and implemented over decades till his death. Infact, if a historian were to check the history, before Lee (other than the first Chinese to land in India by name of Yang ), and after him, you will have difficulty to find any print anywhere that can affirm there was another community leader as recognizable as Lee. There were so many more institutions under his leadership that were implemented other then the 3 that is mentioned in the article, that was from the very beginning of the Hakka settlement in Kolkata. Later additions such as the Chinese Senior Care center, the allocation of the new burial site for the community, the assistance and aid given to the temple etc. I have not mentioned it here. User:Michael D. Turnbull was so tough as an editor I thought to keep only sourced citations. I appreciate that very much as a newbie for that.

Thanks! Setwikirec0 (talk) 16:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

@Setwikirec0 Adding tags like Vamsi20 did is a common part of collaborative editing and the points he has now elaborated are reasonable grounds for doing so. Please give him time to make the improvements, as outlined. One of the reasons Wikipedia doesn't want editors with a COI to continue working on articles in mainspace (although it is fine for them to provide drafts through WP:AfC) is that such editors may feel they WP:OWN them, which as that policy page says, they do not. Indeed, uninvolved editors like Vamsi20 may surprise you by improving the text! No article is ever perfect.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, Mike, your explanation is always appreciated. Thanks!

Earlier, I had thought to pack-up, not worth being upset, but to enjoy my relaxed daily routine which had been interrupted by my time on research and writing articles here in Wiki. I was angry that my article from being not so bad, could become worst off, after a reputable editor's edit such as yours!

I can imagine how much giving of yourself, tremendous time and effort people like you, editors/helpers/contributors do to get peanuts. I've come across editors who have been doing for years, surely, there must be a passion to put meaningful writings out there purely driven by non monetary rewards!

An article (stub) I had started to expand, I feel I cannot abandon it, nor the intend to write a few more biographies of life so meaningfully lived for others.

Yes, you are right, everybody here is to help improve and be a contributor. So we all contribute here peacefully, professionally and in goodwill.

Thanks and my best all! Setwikirec0 (talk) 01:43, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi Vamsi or Mike,

The 3 institutions are mentioned from the very early days of the startup under Lee, is mentioned. If the 4th, which is the new Chinese cemetery which Lee saw the need for many decades before it was opened for the community, as a burial site could be mentioned under his leadership. He had allocated the land and the cemetery was opened for the Hakka to use in mid 1980s. If so, I can load the picture of the entrance to the cemetery (name and gate). Further, the tombstone of Lee, be posted in the article. I also have the senior home care center, he had opened, if you consider it necessary to include.

Thanks. Setwikirec0 (talk) 15:00, 29 April 2023 (UTC)