Talk:Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims

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• The Haunting: Poetry and Fashion in the Creative Writing Workshop

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst (talk) 00:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

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Frock coat with thorn print from Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims

• ... that the clothing tags for Alexander McQueen's first collection, Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims (garment pictured), had his own hair encased inside? Source: [1], Blood Beneath the Skin p84
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Phallichthys amates

Created by Premeditated Chaos (talk). Self-nominated at 04:13, 28 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Jack The Ripper Stalks His Victims; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: Epicgenius (talk) 15:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

• Epicgenius, the QPQ checker has never credited me correctly. I think it's because of the unorthodox way I archive my userpage, unfortunately (but I am an old woman and don't intend to change my ways). I do owe a QPQ so this isn't quite ready yet; have dibsed an article and am planning to do the review tonight. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Epicgenius there, my sense of honor is fulfilled ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:32, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Looks good to me. Epicgenius (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

@Epicgenius and Premeditated Chaos: I like this for the image slot and I see this line in the article: For the clothing tag on the items, he encased locks of his own hair inside of clear plastic squares. This referenced the practice of Victorian-era prostitutes selling locks of hair as well as the general practice of people keeping a lock of hair as a memento or trophy but the inline citation that follows does not seem to support the sentences. Lightburst (talk) 23:55, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Really? It's quite clearly there on page 107. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Apologies @Premeditated Chaos and PMC: Doh. I was reviewing the wrong page and my internal searches were inadequate. Lightburst (talk) 00:37, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet (talk · contribs) 13:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Will start review soon. Vaticidalprophet 13:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Relatively little to say here. It's shorter than some of these articles, which is understandable for what is to some degree a work of juvenilia. most notable Master's thesis

• Given the recent restructuring of the background section, it stands out that the second paragraph is very short. It might make sense to revise somewhat and consolidate it with the first paragraph, or to change how the paragraphs are structured in the first place. You currently have sort of an "overview and early career -- early life -- immediate leadup to CSM enrollment" going on. This results in some disjointed presentation of facts, especially where you mention in one paragraph that McQueen had restricted funds in his early career and then after a paragraph break that he grew up in a rather deprived area.
  • I've revised and added some more context to how McQueen got to CSM, and I pulled the sentence about unconventional materials. Honestly I was really just trying to fluff that paragraph up some, but it's out of place. It does leave para 1 a bit short, but... I can live with it. Actually, I've replaced it with a bit about him being autobiographical.
• What is McQueen's relationship with Ungless? Platonic roommates, right? Were they friends in any sense -- you say so later, but not at first mention? Going off Taxi Driver, they seem to have been confidants to some degree. Do sources just shrug and say "roommate/housemate"? I mostly ask because "with whom he later lived" without specification raises surprisingly many questions. McQueen and his friend Simon Ungless had a mutual interest in the famous 18th century sadomasochistic novel The 120 Days of Sodom -- you see why I had to ask to clarify "platonic"?
  • Oh no, yeah, they were good friends but I don't think they ever dated. I'll revise. (As for the Sodom thing - they were both gay and a little lot weird)
• Although Hillson was dubious about the idea, she agreed to mentor him; among other things, this meant quietly providing him quality fabric from the CSM stores, as he could not afford to buy his own. I recognize it's rank hypocrisy for me to say this, but that's better as a sentence break than a semicolon.
  • pistols at dawn
• Given McQueen's, uh, relationship with the truth, how do we know which of the innkeeper vs actual victim stories is the one he told? Might be worth clarifying that footnote.
  • The more reliable sources reference the innkeeper story, and he gives the innkeeper story firsthand in the 2003 Harper's interview. Intuitively, I think if he was BSing at that point, he would BS in the more salacious direction and say he was related to the victim.
• The collection's narrative was inspired by the victims of 19th-century London serial killer Jack the Ripper, leading to the collection's title, Jack the Ripper Stalks His Victims. I get it, I really do, avoiding this kind of thing is a pain in the ass, but the principle of some astonishment applies. Can we assume the reader has read the article's title?
  • Astonishment increased
• To a lesser extent, he looked to Helmut Lang and Martin Margiela, who were then experimenting with a minimalist style -- of the many terms I've seen applied to McQueen in this article suite, "minimalist" isn't really one. Am I not grokking something subtle?
  • He wasn't himself a minimalist, but he was interested in what Lang and Margiela were doing as a reaction against the big bright garish artless 80s.
• He cited McQueen's homosexuality and his skill at tailoring as justification that McQueen's aesthetic of brutality "was not simply a heartless theatrical flourish, but a manifestation of the very practices that informed his distinctive style of creating a garment". How do those things link together -- does the source detail? Right now, "being gay made his work more brutal" raises more questions than it answers. Also, the reference on this is broken in some way that creates an infinite loop and freezes the article entirely, at least in Firefox.
  • It shouldn't - it's just a normal sfn, no different than any of the others. I've added nowiki tags to the square brackets, in case that was the problem (that's the only obvious difference with that one)
  • As for the actual meaning.........gahhhhh. It's one of those academic arguments that's hard to summarize without just repeating it. I'll...get back to you.
    • Gave up and hacked it up. It's too much concerned with McQueen in the broad sense and not just JTR. I wound up getting a better Evans quote in the process though, so I'm happy.
• Academic Chris McWade -- is this the right title? He seems to have gone into alt-ac/administration. "Chris McWade at the STADIO School of Fashion" (what LISOF recently renamed to) or similar?
  • It seemed to be the neatest way of introducing him from the context of what he was when he was writing that.
• Jack the Ripper was the only collection McQueen presented under his birth name, Lee A. McQueen. By the time he released his next collection, Taxi Driver (Autumn/Winter 1993), he had decided to design under his middle name, Alexander McQueen, which also became the name of his fashion house. Could we clarify the decision-making process here, if possible? I vaguely recall you talking about why once, but don't remember the details.
  • It's honestly not worth getting into in this article; Taxi Driver already gets into the weeds of it since it's relevant to that collection. it's one of those situations where McQueen says one thing, Blow says another, and they're probably both a little bit right.
• McWade gives a little more detail about what exactly Gorjanc wanted to do, which may be worth noting given that there's less to say about the long-term impact of this collection than some of the others.
  • I didn't really feel it was necessary to get into the details of her project, but if you really think the article suffers without it I could expand a bit, I guess.

I don't really have anything else here. Over to you. Vaticidalprophet 00:36, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Okay, all responses are done. Thanks for the thorough review, the article is definitely better for it. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Background misogyny

This sentence " In his early career, McQueen was often accused of misogyny for his extreme designs, a characterisation to which he consistently objected." seems out of place. All of the three sources here are talking about a later 1995 collection - Highland Rape- which can't be background to a 1992 show. Golikom (talk) 18:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

The background section gives some context to McQueen's entire career. The fact that he was consistently accused of misogyny - and denied it - gives an indication that this collection, with its basis in Victorian pornography and serial murder, is not an outlier for him. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:51, 13 December 2024 (UTC)