Talk:JTG Daugherty Racing

NASCAR Mid‑importance

This article is part of WikiProject NASCAR, an attempt to improve and standardize articles related to NASCAR. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, you can visit the project to-do page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.NASCARWikipedia:WikiProject NASCARTemplate:WikiProject NASCARNASCAR

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Contribute to the project:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

History info

Between these two edits JTG Racing was part of Wood Brothers Racing and its history (and its article's edit history) is in Wood Brothers Racing. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lance a primary sponser for 3 races

http://www.jtgdaughertyracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=195:lance-inc-announces-sponsorship-of-marcos-ambrose-and-jtgdaugherty-racing&catid=21:general-news&Itemid=12

Is this worthy of adding to the site?

Thanks,

Cboy619 (talk) 02:46, 20 June 2010 (UTC)cboy619Cboy619 (talk) 02:46, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Team name

The team name shouldn’t be changed until official. As all information is rumour until officially confirmed by the team.

“Basically official” isn’t official. AidenT06 (talk) 12:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's confirmed by multiple sources, plus physical sources such as the shop sign was changed. So the team name was changed. MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 12:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is one of them sources the team, a driver, a owner or NASCAR itself? AidenT06 (talk) 13:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple NASCAR news reporters, and physical sources such as the shop sign, team haulers, etc was changed MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 13:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, its not offical? AidenT06 (talk) 13:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is official though just not annouced. Which in some cases nascar news isn't through annoucements or stuff like that. Theres physical sources such as the shop sign team haulers, etc where changed.

So the page name needs to reflect those changes. MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 13:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no doubt that it will be, eventually changed. However, it hasn’t yet. So we can’t change it. So hold your horses, and be ready for the moment it really happens. AidenT06 (talk) 15:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone bothered to read WP:COMMONNAME / WP:NAMECHANGES. We must wait until reliable sources start using the new name predominately. this has not happened; we don't even have an announcement of the change. MysticCypher87, you are out of line here. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 13:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/kroger-executive-reveals-reason-for-sponsorship-switch-from-jtg-daugherty-to-rfk-racing/

Reliable sources from yesterday are still using "JTG Daughtery Racing" @MysticCipher87(alt-account): Please either revert your move, or if you can't, go to WP:RM/TR to support my request. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 13:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://dailydownforce.com/is-jtg-daugherty-racing-finally-rebranding/ MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 14:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a blog. Not a reliable source that would have a visible editorial structure. Even then, it still doesn't confirm anything. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 14:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://ae-engine.com/terms-of-use-agreement/ Daily Downforce also appears to accept user-generated content. We cannot use this source on Wikipedia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 14:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right now the most authoritative source is a speculative Tweet from Bob. I love Bob but until there's a formal announcement, it's probably best to just leave it as is. HPayne62 (talk) 01:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The change is now offical. Just needs moving ETC, AidenT06 (talk) 23:35, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We should still wait to move per WP:NAMECHANGES; Give time for reliable sources (and the average, non-fan reader) to get accustomed to the change and establish predominance. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 23:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So similar do what we did with the Goodyear 400? 45BearsFan (talk) 02:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think a better example would be Andretti Global. That page was moved the February after the rebranding was announced, and looked like this in the interim. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section that JTG Daugherty Racing be renamed and moved to Hyak Motorsports.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

JTG Daugherty Racing → Hyak Motorsports – JTG Daugherty was renamed/rebranded to Hyak Motorsports. https://tobychristie.com/nascar/cup-series/jtg-daugherty-racing-being-rebranded-to-hyak-motorsports/ MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 22:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Frost 00:27, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now per WP:NAMECHANGES - As I said in the discussion just above this one, we need to wait to give time for reliable sources (and the average, non-fan reader) to get accustomed to the change and establish usage predominance. Please see Andretti Global for an example from last year of a racing team who went a rebrand and who's article didn't move until the next February. Please just be patient. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 23:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Ghost summarized it perfectly, we should give it time until the average non diehard gets used to the name. 45BearsFan (talk) 01:57, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - this is now the actual name of the subject of the article. As for "the average non diehard", that is what the old name being a redirect is for. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The team is now doing business under this name and it would be more confusing to the average reader if the page was still named JTG Daugherty Racing with the page and info box having the Hyak Motorsports name. Andretti Global is not a good example because the team's previous name still had Andretti in it under Andretti Autosport. Hyak is completely different to JTG Daugherty, so it should be moved sooner rather than later. There's no real reason to delay it past this December. - SteeledDock541 (talk) 02:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NAMECHANGES is pretty clear that we give extra weight to independent, reliable, English-language sources ("reliable sources" for short) written after the name change (bolding mine).

As of now, we only have news reporting the announcement, which state simply that a rebrand is occurring/has occurred, and still use the name "JTG Daugherty Racing" in headlines (ie, with just as much, if not more weight), because it's still the commonly recognizable name (Sports Business Journal, Speed Sport, RACER, tobychristie.com). To state otherwise at this time is original research because the sourcing just doesn't exist yet and this is why I'm trying to stress patience above all else.

The sourcing will come, but until it does, moving is inappropriate. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 03:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - There's frankly no reason to believe any sources won't use the new name alone once announcement news dies down. glman (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Newer articles/sources are using the Hyak Motorsports name. Like here: https://www.si.com/onsi/racing-america/news/hyak-motorsports-had-opportunity-to-continue-with-kroger-wanted-fresh-start-01jdmh1em9hx MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Split?

Instead of moving, what do you guys think of splitting Hyak Motorsports into a new article? I'll quote the conversation I had with SteeledDock541 last night to show my thinking:

The more I think about it, the more I see parallels between JTG Daugherty Racing and Carlin. They've both had their primary owners/namesakes depart the team, have had new investors come in, and have had a complete rebranding in the face of their new investments.
Should we not just be making a new article at Hyak Motorsports? I think this would be the simplest way to deal with this situation and gives us two articles, similar to how we now have two articles for Carlin Motorsport and Rodin Motorsport. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 17:11, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I see what you mean and do agree with some aspects about it. Plus you can compare Richard Petty Motorsports and Legacy Motor Club and see a similar situation there. Maury Gallagher purchased a majority state in RPM and then with Jimmie Johnson evolved into LMC.

The problem I have is that if you look at Hyak's twitter when they announced the rebrand (link), they say "Same Team. New Name. New Era." So I'm not sure if that would contradict the idea of separating the two articles even though Hyak has a new ownership group. SteeledDock541 (talk) 18:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Fair point. We could always split out a new article later, if the sources warrant it, like you did with Carlin. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 18:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
True. If you want, you can post your proposal on the talk page to see what others think. I personally am unsure because it has its pros and cons. Seeing what other people think might help in my opinion. SteeledDock541 (talk) 19:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

In addition to the Carlin and Legacy MC examples, we also have a new article at Haas Factory Team instead of moving Stewart-Haas Racing there. We have lots of precedent for rebrands/ownership changes resulting in new articles. SD541 makes a good point in reply, but I'm not sure a slogan from a social media account is the best source on the matter. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 18:16, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Stewart–Haas racing shut down rather than ownership changes that's why Haas factory team was split off. Stewart–Haas racing still has old stuff from when it was known as Haas CNC Racing. JTG Daughtery never shut down. In my opinion, a move from JTG Daughtery to HYAK Racing is better in this instance than a completely new article. MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 18:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But... you're wrong here. SHR is another example of an ownership change, this time, one owner divesting and the remaining owner downsizing, but not shutting down. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 18:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But the thing is, Stewart-Haas Racing did shut down after the conclusion of this season and HAAS factory team opened as brand new race team. JTG Daughtery never announced that they were shutting down. Instead, they announced a different name and new owners. Like RFK Racing doesn't have two different articles when it was Roush Racing or Roush Fenway Racing when they added Fenway Sports Group or Brad Keselowski to the owners' list. MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 19:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the SI link you posted above: "That's not all true," Daugherty explained of the rumor that Kroger chose to leave the team. "We had the opportunity to rekindle that partnership, but we divided our company in a way and separated our company in a way, that we wanted a fresh start over on the HYAK side."

To me, that doesn't sound much different from the Haas situation, minus a couple of announcements and the resulting press. The Geschickters divested from JTG Daugherty. Medallion Financial divested from Richard Petty Motorsports. Trevor Carlin divested from Carlin. All of these situations are similar with the only difference being that the Geschickters didn't announce their departure. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 19:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if we do split the articles would it look something like this? Draft:HYAK Motorsports. Also, can I propose that we split the HAAS CNC and SHR articles and have HAAS CNC be the former team to HAAS Factory team rather than SHR? MysticCipher87(alt-account) (talk) 20:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes to your first question. And I believe that proposal would be better suited on Talk:Stewart-Haas Racing. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" _(hihi) 04:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - After thinking about it for a bit, I would disagree on splitting the articles and just moving JTG Daugherty Racing to Hyak Motorsports. I don't see the rebrand as significant enough to warrant splitting the articles. If down the line we feel this way, then it's fine, but right now I don't think it's necessary.

SteeledDock541 (talk) 02:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]