Talk:J. J. Cale

Name

Removed comment:

"Actually, the story about Cale's name was made up by a drunk French "Journalist" Cale refused to talk to."

Cite, please? -- The Anome 11:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Cover songs

Does anybody else think this list would be easier to read if it was organized by song, rather than by covering artist?Paulmeisel 00:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yup. LiamE 15:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, I think Bob Dylan's "Cocaine" (the lyric goes "cocaine around my mind...")has nothing to do with Cale's. And spiritualized "run" isn't really a cover, it just cites Cale in the lyrics. Didn't remove either of them because I'am not sure, maybe Dylan really has a cover version of Cale's song. --201.215.140.150 (talk) 22:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I did a bit of work to streamline the article and add some information to describe Cale's style and relationship to the "Tulsa Sound" which is really such a loose concept that it's not very informative. I also added a mention of The Road to Escondido and an explanation of the origins of the "J.J." stage name (though not of the whole Jean Jacques BS). This came straight out of Cale's mouth in the To Tulsa And Back DVD but i'm rather new to editing and i don't know how to cite that. Sebs26 21:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The cover songs section needs to be trimmed back. SilkTork *^YES! 10:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article include the "I've got the same old blues" 1977 cover by Bobby Bland ‎(from the lp: "Reflections in Blue" ABC Records AB-1018? Rebelbygrace (talk) 15:39, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Tulsa Sound: "Laid Back"

I am not sure "laid back" correctly describes JJ Cale -- he is certainly reserved, but his topic material is anything but "laid back."

I know him best for his "Bringing it back from Mexico" played best by Kansas.

I will add this to the "covers" section when I confirm it's his song, etc.

Stupid me, it's "Bringing it back" w/o "from Mexico"--John Bessa (talk) 16:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

J.J. vs J. J. vs JJ

Wikipedia lists this artist as "J. J. Cale" (with space) while Last.fm lists him as J.J. Cale (without space) and his offical website as "JJ Cale" (without dots and space). I would say that the official site would be a good source for his name. Do we need to change the page name? I'm surprised this "issue" hasn't been mentioned before. -- Sander (talk) 17:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but it's probably related to a policy about naming conventions for Wikipedia. At one time the article title was "J.J. Cale" (without the space), but it was changed to what it is now by an admin. All versions redirect to the article. Ward3001 (talk) 18:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Alright, that's clear. Thanks. -- Sander (talk) 13:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

The cover of my compilation CD album "Special Edition" has JJ, but the spine and sleeve notes have J.J. (!) I would say the American English convention is J.J. and the British English convention is JJ. Go figure... Isidore (talk) 19:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be his choice? I have usually seen it as JJ Cale. Why don't we ask him?--John Bessa (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

As the official website, and most sources list the name as JJ Cale, I have moved the article to that name. I have also shown the common alternative J.J. Cale. J. J. Cale doesn't appear to be a version used that much (though there may be sources - I have done a fairly quick search). SilkTork *^YES! 10:32, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Guitar style

Somebody with greater insight than me might want to write a paragraph about his guitar style, which was very influential, not only on Eric Clapton in the early 70s, but also on Mark Knopfler. 88.72.243.183 (talk) 20:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Fully protected

I have fully protected this article for the next three days. I'm not seeing any reliable sources that confirm his supposed death, and there is at least some evidence that this may be yet another hoax. If any reliable sources can be provided, I will be happy to remove the protection early. --Bongwarrior (talk) 13:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

So you didn't see the very first reference that was listed in the article when you reverted it? How on Earth can you call Corriere della Sera unreliable? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:16, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

JJ Cale isn't some random nobody. If he has died, there should be much more press than I'm seeing. Reliable or not, they might have gotten this one wrong. --Bongwarrior (talk) 13:25, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

[1] confirms his death, and does his Facebook page. That should suffice. --Mystery Roach (talk) 13:36, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Utterly ridiculous! It's in all decent newspapaer, his agency sent an email around, and it's pretty clear on his website jjcale.com ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.100.126 (talk) 13:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

CNN official enough? [2]Sunnydoo (talk) 13:54, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

This page should be updated. His facebook page and agency report it. If that's not official enough, what is? Carlo (talk) 14:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

His Facebook and his agency aren't really the best sources to use, but there are now enough other sources that I feel comfortable unprotecting the page. I apologize for the delay, but in these types of situations we really can't be too careful - they turn out to be fake as often as they turn out to be true, and the available information at the time was throwing up some red flags for me. --Bongwarrior (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Death hoax

Both Cale's own page and his agency's [3] state he passed away July 26, 2013. [4] calls it a hoax. Hm. -- nolaro 13:20, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

You sure? I wouldn't.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/27/showbiz/jj-cale-obit/?hpt=hp_t3 http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/musica/noticias/5027243/07/13/Fallece-el-musico-JJ-Cale-de-un-ataque-al-corazon.html http://www.corriere.it/spettacoli/13_luglio_27/JJCale-morte_4ee98e54-f6b4-11e2-9839-a8732bb379b1.shtml Glyniss (talk) 13:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Reread the site of his agency [5]. It's updated with a statement that he died of a heart attack.

none 15:56, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Mediamass is not, and doesn't even claim to be, a reliable source. It's a parody. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:34, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Just to make this perfectly clear, whatever any other sources may say: the official JJ Cale website announced the following: "JJ Cale passed away at 8:00 pm on Friday July 26at Scripps Hospital in La Jolla, CA." JJ Cale official website. Retrieved 27 July 2013. End of subject. --Technopat (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 July 2013

I just wanted to put that JJ Cale has died, see http://www.noise11.com/news/j-j-cale-dies-from-heart-attack-at-age-74-20130727 John Cossham, York, UK 13:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

In here it says its a hoax [6] 201.214.24.205 (talk) 16:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Mediamass doesn't even pretend to be a reliable source. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Any Way The Wind Blows

This song was a huge hit. I can't think of a song of his that is better known, aside from After Midnight (via Clapton) and Magnolia. Yet Any Way The Wind Blows Isn't mentioned at all in the article. Bizarre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.130.17 (talk) 16:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

The media reports of his death that I have read seem to consider "After Midnight" and "Cocaine" as his two biggest songs, and I haven't seen any that mention "Any Way The Wind Blows". We try to keep our balance of coverage in line with what reliable sources say, rather than our own opinions. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Surely his biggest U.S. hit single, "Crazy Mama", also in need of some attention? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

solo unreleased album

Hi. Does anyone know of an unreleased studio album that he did whilst in Germany. cant find reference on the page to this — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.226.153.191 (talk) 17:28, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

(I got the) same old blues...

Pardon my ignorance, but while I know both Cale's original and Lynyrd Skynyrd's cover, I don't know Captain Beefheart's "Same Old Blues". Is it, as I suspect, the same song? If so, please modify the intro accordingly. --Technopat (talk) 00:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Yep, it is the same song. I've changed the lede, but it could do with some work. -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 01:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

And now it's all gone as the lead has been, rightly, shortened. Would make a good section lower down perhaps, with only the most famous (ie Clapton-covered) songs at the top. Rothorpe (talk) 01:56, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

([7] from the wonderful Bluejeans & Moonbeams (1974). Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Married with Christine Lakeland?

The main text on "http://www.jjcale.com/" is signed with "christine lakeland cale"? Were they married? --46.14.25.87 (talk) 22:22, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

looks like it, she even got an article saying it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lakeland

someone with better wikipedia knowledge should update the jj article ;) --87.164.54.52 (talk) 06:59, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I've linked the "Air Force Institute of Technology in Champaign, Illinois" with the Chanute Air Force Base, decommissioned in 1993, although the article makes no mention of "Institute of Technology". The only current Air Force Institute of Technology I can see is the one at Dayton, Ohio. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 8 June 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Opposers' arguments don't hold much water.(non-admin closure) Eventhorizon51 ^(talk) 17:44, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

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JJ Cale → J. J. Cale – Per WP:SPACEINITS. Sources (and indeed official recordings) use a variety of methods for initials and spacing, so there is no "correct" or uniform way of rendering his name. Therefore we should default to our MOS. Rob Sinden (talk) 10:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:17, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I understand the frustration. But he wasn't "J. J. Cale" he was "J. W. Cale", wasn't he? Maybe B.B. King is a similar case (but he escapes WP:SPACEINITS)? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:12, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I get your point that they're not his actual initials, but should that matter when deciding here? If there was an "official" rendering, then sure, but as there seems to be no uniform usage, our own MOS seems the best option to follow. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I suspect you will get the support of such editors as User:SMcCandlish who argues that the styles used by record companies, for names and titles, are irrelevant. I tend to see album titles as providing justification. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

The only thing making me think that we're in a grey area here is that it is not his real name. But as each album cover seems to style it differently, we can't treat it as if it were a WP:SPNC. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:35, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I see there are quite a few articles that begin "JJ". Would it be worth having a quick look at those too? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:38, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a few, but not as many as I might have thought. There are a couple where WP:SPNC seems to apply, but of course some could just have been named without consideration being given to the MOS. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:50, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Just to note - there was some discussion about this in 2009 (see earlier thread). Martinevans123 (talk) 18:04, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

• Support – All variations including "J. J. Cale" appear on album covers (like this one); we should go with "normal" style per MOS:TM. Dicklyon (talk) 16:06, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

• But if we're using album and single covers as a guide here, we also need to consider this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one and this one? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

• They have all been considered. Per MOS:TM, if the "normal" style is among those in use, then that's what we should use. Dicklyon (talk) 16:45, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

• What a relief. But MOS:TM pays no heed to frequency? If the (WP idea) of "normal" style (which in this case misrepresents his real initials) was, say, one in a hundred, the answer would be the same? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:39, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. No space is common for Cale's releases. Unreal7 (talk) 07:51, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
  • With space is also common, and WP:COMMONNAME simply is not a style policy to begin with; it's a policy for determining what the common name is, however styled it may be (i.e. "J. J. Cale" vs. "J. W. Cale" or "Snorkel McThunderfoot").  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:32, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
• Support: seems to be the case across pages, such as J. R. R. Tolkien. DaltonCastle (talk) 00:51, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose per Unreal7. Calidum ¤ 04:33, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
  • But Unreal7's rationale has no basis.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:32, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
    • Unreal7's rationale has a basis in real life, it just doesn't fit with WP:COMMONNAME. But you also say "With space is also common" suggesting this is a perfectly valid consideration? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:36, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose: per Unreal7, see this link for an example. Ebonelm (talk) 16:42, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Conversely, see this link --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:53, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

• Support: Per MoS, per WP:CONSISTENCY, and because WP:COMMONNAME is not a style policy (plus the evidence that no particular stylization for this name is used consistently in real-world sources). What a cherry-picked album cover says does not matter. Whether it's his "real" name or not is completely irrelevant. J. J. Cale, not J. W. Cale, is his real name for public purposes and thus, per COMMONNAME's actual applicability here, also for WP purposes. If he were a fictional character, not real at all, we'd still use the same "J. J. Cale" style. Michael J. Fox legally has no real middle name, but he's still "Michael J. Fox" here and to the public, not "Michael Fox", or "MichaelJ Fox", or "Michael-J Fox" or "Michael J Fox" or "M. J. Fox" or "MJ Fox" or whatever.

  In all of these MoS questions, from MOS:CAPS to MOS:TM, it's always the same: Do it the MoS way, unless reliable sources overwhelmingly consistently support an unusual stylization. That isn't the case here, just as it is not for styling Pink (singer) as "P!nk"; these cases are not like k.d. lang and Deadmau5, where almost all sources go along with the odd stylization. So, follow MoS like we do for everyone else, and move on.
  (For the record, I don't actually support MoS saying to use spaces between initials and to use periods after them regardless of dialect, but we've had a stable consensus to do both for over a decade, and it isn't likely to change. Policy is certainly not changed by voting with one's personal peccadilloes at RM against what the rules say to do.
   — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  22:32, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I can confirm that he wasn't fictional, but was quite real. But it seems that MoS well and truly trounces any views that might form a local consensus here. Lucky that Michael doesn't call himself MichaelJ Fox, eh? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 15 June 2016 (UTC) personal peccadilloes? are they like Michael J Portillo's' Portilistas??

• Support. If usage is all over the place, go with the MOS. —  AjaxSmack  00:56, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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