Talk:Hypermobility spectrum disorder

PLEASE VERIFY IF HYPERMOBILITY SYNDROME IS THE SAME AS DOUBLE JOINT (IN THE FIRST SENTENCE IT IMPLIES THEY ARE NOT THE SAME: not to be confused with double-jointedness, where the sufferer can bend their limbs in positions others find impossible). HOWEVER, WHEN YOU CLICK ON THE DOUBLE-JOINTENESS HYPERLINK, IN THE SQUARE BOX AT THE RIGHT, IT MENTIONS THEY ARE SYNONYMS...

Merge

Increasingly considered Ehlers-Danos. Scope creep marked it for speedying as a duplicate, but even if this article points at EDS, I think it'd be a useful title to keep. Any dissenters? - David Gerard (talk) 15:11, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Under current diagnostic frameworks, are still considered separate entities. HSD is newer than hEDS, and so has less concrete research surrounding it. Some researchers beginning to talk about it as existing on a spectrum but this is not widely accepted. Big differentiating factor being that hEDS is decidedly autosomal dominantly inherited, while HSD is not proven to be hereditary. Med29846 (talk) 19:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The only current reference treats the two ( Hypermobility syndrome and EDS) as the same thing. It appears that the primary author is confused on that but has a valid point that the previous redirect to Hypermobility aka Double jointness was incorrect. A strait up redirect to EDS is the best option.PRehse (talk) 15:19, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know about merge, but it certainly needs an expert or two. The one ref I did find, was that Hypermobility syndrome was a class 3 type of Ehlers–Danlos syndrome. Ah, I have found the classification is detailed at some length in the Classification table within Ehlers–Danlos syndrome, so an argument could be made that a link could be made from EDS to Hypermobility as a classification entry. This would mean, that eventually we would need articles for Classical, Vascular, Kyphoscoliosis, Arthrochalasia, Dermatosparaxis. Each classification entry has a pretty heavy duty paragraph with excellent details on each. scope_creep (talk) 15:33, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I think possibly a keep. I wouldn't be a no bad thing to have a series of articles on each classification, in much more detail. I'm for that. scope_creep (talk) 15:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

This is a subpage of EDS[1]. Specifically it is type 3. I am easy either way. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:01, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Doc James, David Gerard, thinking on and the classification of hypermobility disorders appears to be going through a period of change. Castori et al., 2017 talk of hypermobility spectrum disorder(s). This quote from the intro to Palmer et al., 2017 is helpful:

• "Joint Hypermobility Syndrome (JHS) is a heritable connective tissue disorder characterised by excessive joint range of motion and pain (Grahame, 2003). It was previously widely recognised that there was a lack of distinction in the clinical presentation of JHS and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type (EDS-HT) (Tinkle et al., 2009) and many authors considered them to be the same condition. Indeed recent revision of the classification of EDS has created a more specific diagnostic category to replace both of those terms, this being ‘hypermobile EDS’ (hEDS) (Malfait et al., 2017). Where patients have symptomatic joint hypermobility but do not meet the diagnostic criteria for other syndromes, the term ‘Hypermobility Spectrum Disorder’ (HSD) has been adopted (Castori et al., 2017)."

We use HSD at my local hospital. Others talk of HDCT (hereditary disorder(s) of the connective tissues). The old EDS type 3 classification/hEDS is on the way out, best I can tell. I suggest a hypermobility spectrum disorder page, with this article redirecting to it. Whatever we do, GeeBee60 is right, the current text is a mess! I'll put some work into this. Bondegezou (talk) 12:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not any sort of expert, I just have family members with it so have an interest and a bit of knowledge from that :-) I defer to anyone who actually knows about this! - David Gerard (talk) 12:19, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm no expert either & I have an HDS diagnosis myself! By the way, I retract my earlier suggestion that this page should just be a redirect to a new hypermobility spectrum disorder page. I can see value in having both. Bondegezou (talk) 13:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hello everyone, I personally am not an expert on this medical condition. I was searching about EDS on Ehlers-Danlos Society and discovered that they have written a medical report on hEDS (hypermobility type, Ehlers- Danlos syndrome) and Hypermobility Spectrum Disorder (HSD). From my understanding, the report highlights the difference between hEDS and HSD (or hypermobility syndrome). I also agree with having a hypermobility spectrum disorder from this post. There is also this article by Ehlers-Danlos Society about HSD. -Poeticfeelings (talk) 13:55, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for those links, Poeticfeelings. I'll try to do more over Xmas, or happy for someone to get there before me. Bondegezou (talk) 14:54, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

From what I have searched with the help of the articles by Ehlers-Danlos Society, HSD and EDS are grouped together often. However, according to the new criteria of hEDS in 2017 (hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome), the criteria for HSD is much less stricter, and hEDS is more stricter than HSD. HSD causes muscloskeletal pain, which causes great discomfort. However, there are asymptomatic types of HSD, which might be referring to hypermobility (or 'double jointed') without any symptoms. I have posted different types of HSD below in another section. Please correct me if my information is wrong. I'll try to do more research soon! Poeticfeelings (talk) 09:33, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Update- Adding onto the two criterias of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and HSD, HSD is less stricter and it is for individuals who show the symptoms of EDS but cannot meet all the requirements given by the 2017 Criteria of the Ehlers-Danlos Syndromes. The criteria of HSD is less stricter than the criteria type of hEDS (hypermobile EDS), (Please see the comparison here) and the criteria for hEDS is to help doctors to diagnose as there are no genetic mutation known for this type. Other criteria(s) of EDS types with genetic mutation known have other requirements. Please see the completed Ehlers-Danlos Diagnostic Criteria. Please post if you have new information, and if I made any mistakes, please correct them. Thank you everyone! --Poeticfeelings (talk) 13:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Rewrite at least

Whether or not this is merged, the article is in need of a rewrite so that each "sentence" is indeed a sentence and not just a phrase. GeeBee60 (talk) 00:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi GeeBee60, I agree. I don't know enough about it, or indeed, anything about it. Somebody needs to step up to the plate, and get it done.scope_creep (talk) 22:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi back, scope creep. It seems that much good work has been done in the past few days, and discussed in the talk section above. Appreciation to Bondegezou and Doc James. I don't have any stake or knowledge of the subject, and at this point don't recall what diverted me to click on the article a couple of months ago. It WAS a mess, but reads fine now, aside from the references / footnotes that don't (yet) follow WP guidelines. (See Help:References and page numbers and or Help:Footnotes)

The thing is, I don't know about this article's accuracy, and that is my grumble with WP -- many of the articles SHOULD be written by people with expertise even if the contribution contains "original research". In a real encyclopaedia, entries are written and signed by one or two individuals who get both credit and blame. Fortunately, this particular rewrite seems both congenial and taken on by informed editors. That's a good thing. GeeBee60 (talk) 17:12, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

HSD criterias

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

The Ehlers-Danlos Society has released some information about various types of HSD. The criteria mentions that not all HSD has positive 7-point Beighton Score (usually, for people over 50, guideline is upto 4 points and over, For people upton 50 years of age, guideline is upto 5 or more, and to children and adolescents, 6 or more points.) but can have hypermobility limited to certain areas (such as the localized HSD). The Ehlers-Danlos Society offers support- not only to EDS patients- but to HSD patients as well. Whilst the EDS criteria became stricter from the International Consortium of Ehlers- Danlos Syndromes and Related Disorders in 2017, HSD is similar but less strict. Currently, these are the types.

• Asymptomatic GJH
• Asymptomatic PHJ
• Asymptomatic LJH

and then,

• G-HSD: Generalized HSD, Beighton Score positive.
• P-HSD: Peripheral HSD, Beighton Score usually negative- Joint hyermobility ypically limited to hands and/or feet
• L-HSD: Localized HSD, Beighton Score negative- Joint hypermobility limited to single joints or body parts
• H-HSD: Historical HSD, Beighton Score negative. Joint hypermobility historical presence of joint hypermobility.

Musculoskeletal involvement is present in all types of HSD, except the asymptomatic types.

Does anyone have more info on hypermobility spectrum disorders? This one is the only information I have about them. Poeticfeelings (talk) 09:32, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

This link is also useful, to the various new agreed classifications. Bondegezou (talk) 10:10, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I actually read some of this article before, but didn't read the part about HSD yet. I'll take a look! Poeticfeelings (talk) 09:23, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

References