Talk:House Atreides/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mythological origins

The article is somewhat redundant on the issue, it should be simplified and precise; Also the leading paragraph misrepresents the fictional intent as simply "suggestion", Herbert's passages and appendixes are straight forward on the matter.

[Children of Dune] - Other voices wove around her mind: "I, Agamemnon, your ancestor, demand audience!"

[Children of Dune] - Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon and we know what's in our blood."

[God Emperor] - My paternal grandfather was The Atreides, descendant of the House of Atreus and tracing his ancestry directly back to the Greek original.

[God Emperor] - And I have traversed the far wanderings of the Fremen. Through my father’s line and the others, I have gone right back to the House of Atreus.

Furthermore the Greek word for "Son of Atreus", On page (1) of The iliad

^{line.7 word.1}

- You can listen to the paragraph in Greek [On YouTube] and hear "ah-tre-í-dis"

Ἀτρεΐδης - Son of Atreus [wiki]

Alpha

tau

rho

epsilon

iota

delta

eta

sigma

A t r e i d e s - That name is simply how you say 'son of Atreus' in Greek after translation in English

Torbach (talk) 04:23, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Isn't there a reference in the books somewhere to the descent of the Artreides directly from the House of Atreus?

IIRC, the only explicit reference is in Children of Dune where Alia is plagued by her ancestral memories: at one point Agammemnon cries out to her. She ignores him and he is not further heard from. I have not, however, read either the Prelude to Dune or Legends of Dune prequel cycles. Ellsworth 20:48, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

in the preludes it is mentioned that the Atreides are descendants of Atreus.

Additionally, now that the Machine Crusade series is out, it should be noted that the house actually descends from Vorian Atreides, the son of General Agamemnon, one of the disembodied brain Titans who fought for, with, and against Omnius. Agamemnon claimed lineage to the historical/mythic Agamemnon.--Vidkun 15:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree

In Dune the mother of Lady Jessica is unknown. The Reverend Mother Helen Gaius Mohiam states that she loves Jessica as if she were one of her own daughters, but this does not specify that Jessica is her daughter.

I have two points to make regarding the family tree. The first being that it is revealed in the Prequel House novels that Mohiam is is Jessica's birth mother. The second point being that Paul and Chani's first son, Leto II is left out. The Leto on the tree is Leto II the Second. It's an irregular naming scheme, but if you examine the antipopes of the Clementine line that that type of naming scheme is used.

IN CONNECTION with the discussion at the end of the preceding section here, there really should be TWO Agamemnons in the family tree: the first, mythicohistorical one who was the son of Atreus and fought at Troy, and the second, "Titan" one (cough cough). I don't have my files handy at the moment, but I believe the second's birth name was Andrew Skouros or something like that. I would recommend placing that name first in parentheses with Agamemnon—his later adopted name—underneath it in quotes. A small point, perhaps, but is there any reason not to make it? --SandChigger 10:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

This is correct. The Agamemnon from the books is not the son of Atreus. --Insane 03:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but notice the dashed line between Atreus and Agamemnon. This is to signify that the Agamemnon in question is not the historical one, but rather a descendant along an unknown number of generations. --Insane 03:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, yes, I noticed the dashed line and understood its significance. I still think it would be clearer to include both. --SandChigger 09:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Weren't they also descended from Joan of Arc? I thought I remembered her being one of the ancestral voices that Alia heard in Children of Dune. Kuralyov (talk) 17:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Leto I½

The subject of the first and second sons of Paul Atreides is a bit unclear, and the first son doesn't appear on the family tree. I understand that when we speak about the God Emperor, he is the second person named 'Leto' to rule the House, thus 'Leto II', but how to explain about his elder brother without further confusing the matter? Cmdr. Maegil 02:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

How about including him with no number after his name, as simply "Leto"; maybe with a note: "(died in infancy)"?.

Strike that last bit; wrote it without having a look at the tree again first. His b&d dates should suffice to make the above clear. --SandChigger 02:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I added him into the tree, but can someone help with the dates? TAnthony 02:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the "II" (is he ever referred to thus in the novels?) and added "(10192?~10193?)" for his dates. Will have to do some rereading to pinpoint date of birth and death more exactly. (The timeline at Dune Novels isn't specific on this point.) --SandChigger 09:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Since the majority of the dates are A.G., why not add a note like "All dates are A.G. unless otherwise indicated"? --SandChigger 00:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Paul's first son is named Leto the second in the original book, he is specifically called this during the scene preceding when Chani kills a man who had come to challenge Paul to single combat, as he determines his fixity in time. Then Leto the second dies as the battle for Arrakis intensified during the events that take Alia as prisoner so she later appears before the emperor. When the new Leto is born, he is still Leto II, because the prior Leto II never ruled. Just as the prior Leto II was not Leto Jr. This is nothing to do with having the same name, where we have name, name jr, name the third. This is lineage kings naming. -Ryan Durant 24.131.190.95 (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Colours green black and red hawk? Check the computer game which I used to play as a child

Green black seems like something from a muslim ISIS army, and red too, but Blue and White seems to be the real colour of the House Atreides, and that is how their hawk is pictured in the computer game - check video:

watch?v=sQzhGeHsxYY on youtube — Preceding unsigned comment added by HouseofAtreides (talk • contribs) 22:31, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

green and black may be haouse ordos in that computer game? red harkonen....? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HouseofAtreides (talk • contribs) 22:34, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Um, the BOOKS establish the colors as green with a red hawk, so for our purposes here that is primary and the computer game is derivative.— TAnthony^Talk 00:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Yep - in the very first book no less.

"To hold Arrakis," the Duke said, "one is faced with decisions that may cost one his self-respect." He pointed out the window to the Atreides green and black banner hanging limply from a staff at the edge of the landing field. "That honorable banner could come to mean many evil things."

There was no past occupying the future in his mind… except… except… he could still sense the green and black Atreides banner waving… somewhere ahead… still see the jihad's bloody swords and fanatic legions.It will not be, he told himself. I cannot let it be.

Torbach (talk) 05:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Atreides family tree

I'm preserving family tree from the redirected article on this talk page for archival purposes.— TAnthony^Talk 16:34, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

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The following family tree assembles information from Frank Herbert's original novels as well as the prequel series Legends of Dune, Schools of Dune and Prelude to Dune.

Atreus

Agamemnon b. circa 1200 B.C.

Agamemnon (born Andrew Skouros) circa 1300 - 88 B.G.

Leronica Tergiet 201 - 108 B.G.

Vorian Atreides b. 223 B.G.

Karida Julan

Hyla d. 5 B.G.

Andros d. 5 B.G.

Estes Vazz b. 173 B.G.

Kagin Vazz b. 173 B.G.

Mariella Atreides d. 5 B.G.

Helmina Berto-Anirul d. 115 B.G.

Bonda Atreides

Clar Atreides

Oren Atreides

Raquella Berto-Anirul b. 137 B.G.

House Vernius

House Richese

House Corrino

Arlett

Miklos Atreides

Yvette Hagal 10,024 - 10,075 A.G.

Elrood IX Corrino 9,999 - 10,156 A.G.

Dorotea

Kean Atreides

Ilban Richese

Edwina Corrino 10,070 - 10,123 A.G.

House Harkonnen

Bene Gesserit

Paulus Atreides 10,089 - 10,156 A.G.

Helena Richese b. 10,095 A.G.

Vladimir Harkonnen 10,110 - 10,193 A.G.

Tanidia Nerus (Gaius Helen Mohiam) d. 10,207 A.G.

Kailea Vernius d. 10,174 A.G.

Leto I Atreides 10,140 - 10,191 A.G.

Lady Jessica 10,154 - 10,256 A.G.

Victor Atreides 10,168 - 10,174 A.G.

Paul Atreides 10,176 - 10,219 A.G.

Chani d. 10,207 A.G.

Alia Atreides 10,191 - 10,219 A.G.

Leto Atreides (10,193 - 10,195 A.G.)

Leto II Atreides 10,207 - 13,728 A.G.

Ghanima Atreides b. 10,207 A.G.

Farad'n Corrino b. 10,198 A.G.

Moneo Atreides 13,610-13,728 A.G.

Duncan Idaho

Siona Atreides

Miles Teg

Darwi Odrade