Talk:History of Shanghai

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Article Problems

Most of the article reads like it was written by an official Chinese government propaganda body. 79.207.157.226 (talk) 19:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem with this article is that there are too many superfluous details. Much of the content is obscured by subjective or unverifiable generalizations. The article is really quite tedious and confusing. The History of Beijing article, by comparison, is streamlined and readable. And, Beijing is actually an older city. The basic layout of this article seems workable, but I think a serious re-write of each section is necessary. winstonho0805 (talk) 06:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On your first point: no. Generalizations ≠ details, and details are good.

Agreed. This article is terrible, and really could benefit from a complete ground up rewrite. Brycen (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem is the unsourced and biased generalizing, followed closely by its lousy structure. I think it repeats its mildly insane argument about the Qing not having a government – admittedly, we still need an article on the taotais, but we've got 'em on the viceroy of Liangjiang, governor of Jiangsu, and even dibaos – and Shanghai being ruled by its native area clubs about three times. — LlywelynII 19:31, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The word "Shanghailander" is used in this article, without link or definition. The proper use of this term would be to refer to British nationals who had adopted Shanghai as their home. For clarity, if that is the intended meaning is this article, perhaps it should be spelled out rather than using an esoteric term that almost nobody would understand. If, on the other hand, the term was being used (incorrectly) to indicate Chinese Shanghai residents, then that should be spelled out, or the term should be changed to the proper term, "Shanghainese people." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.9.25 (talk) 02:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't merely the Brits, but you're right that it only sloppily applied to the Zanghaening themselves. — LlywelynII 16:35, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite

I attemptted to rewrite the first part of this article, up through the Chinese society section. It's hard to place the events in this article on a timeline, thus I tried to mimick other "History of Cities" pages in China and use the Dynasty framework. It was problematic at the end of the Quing Dynasty, which is relatively where I stopped.

If anyone has any better ideas, please go for it. I may try to finish rewriting this article in a few days. Judging by the grammar mistakes, my guess is that the article was written by a chinese government official, as someone had suggested earlier.'''Shawn''' (talk) 09:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's still many non-specific time indicators that need to be edited out. For example, in the "Early Era" section has "which has only been recently irrigated" (confusing - was this pre-Ming or modern?); the "Ming dynasty" section starts with the word "later". I wouldn't mind helping, if you're amenable? Adevish (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Irrigation: Who needs it?

I went through the Early Era section and removed the "irrigation" references. They add nothing to the section and are confusing and unnecessary. We can add them in later if we find out they are necessary. I have this article on my watch list and will continue to work through the sections. Doctorfun (talk) 18:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC) (cleanup)[reply]

Eh, it's pretty necessary. The place used to be a city of canals, so it's important to show when they came in and when they got filled in and turned into the mass of QQs and Audis we now all know and love. — LlywelynII 19:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article expansion

For interested editors helping out with the Shanghai improvements, I've been working on some of the railroad pages (a start on the Songhu Railway and a future article in the Woosung Road namespace) and stumbled across this site. It's a former version of the bizarre but lovely labor of love at Astor House Hotel (Shanghai) (apparently China's first western hotel) and its affiliate pages. There's a mass of images and information over there (>250k) about the Shanghailanders and their times. — LlywelynII 16:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maps

I'll add one from the Astor House Hotel article, but the article needs more, ideally one every 50 years or so since 1800. Shanghai grew quickly and changed repeatedly over the years, with entire districts of streets and places being renamed after 1949. — LlywelynII 16:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

One odd source for Shanghai history articles is the Hong Kong Directories, which at least in this 1859 edition provide information on all foreigners living in China, including those resident in Shanghai.

Here's the bibliography formerly at the end of the article. They're ok for stubs, but as articles get bigger and you need more inline cites anyway, it just becomes clutter and cover for unsourced claims. Ideally, people can look through these and add them back in as inline cites later:

American Chamber of Commerce. (2001). Getting Shanghai on the right track. AmChat Newsletter (pp. 5–6).

Shanghai. China Science and Technology Department. (2000). Report on high-tech industry development in Shanghai. Development Report on China’s New and High-tech Industry. Beijing: China Science Publishing Department.

Balfour, Alan and Zheng Zhiling, Shanghai (Chichester 2002).

Davies, J. (2002). Urban regime theory: A normative-empirical critique. Journal of Urban Affairs, 24, 1–17.

Fujii, T., & Hartshorn, T. (1995). The changing metropolitan structure of Atlanta, Georgia: The locations of functions and regional structure in a multinucleated urban area. Urban Geography, 16, 680–707.

Goodman, Bryna, Native Place, City, and Nation, Regional Networks and Identities in Shanghai, 1853–1937 (Berkeley 1995).

Horesh, Niv, Shanghai's Bund and Beyond (Yale University Press 2009).

Ji, Zhaojin, A History of Modern Shanghai Banking (New York 2003).

Knox, P. L. (1994). Urbanization: An introduction to urban geography. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall.

Lanning, G., & Couling, S. (1921) The History of Shanghai Kelly & Walsh Ltd.

Leman, E. (2002). Can Shanghai compete as a global market? The China Business Review, www.chinabusinessreview.com, accessed 9/9/02.

Lin, G. (2001). Evolving spatial form of urban-rural interaction in the Pearl River Delta, China. Professional Geographer, 53, 56–70.

Ma, L. J. C. (2002). "Urban transformation in China, 1949–2000: A review and research agenda," Environment and Planning A, 34(9), 1545–1570.

Ning, Y. (2002). "Globalization and the sustainable development of Shanghai," In F. C. Lo, & P. J. Marcotullio (Eds.). Globalization and the sustainability of cities in the Asia Pacific Region. Tokyo: United Nations Press.

Ning, Y., & Yan, Z. (1995). "The changing industrial and spatial structure in Shanghai," Urban Geography, 16,577–594.

Olds, K. (2001). Globalization and urban change: Capital, culture, and Pacific rim mega-projects. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Wasserstrom, Jeffrey N. (2009) Global Shanghai, 1850–2010

— LlywelynII 23:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Shanghai Badlands by Frederic E. Wakeman: here & here. Rajmaan (talk) 16:21, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but don't format your links like that, esp. all the garbage Google puts into their URLs. Fixed. — LlywelynII 18:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a book:

Port of Last Resort: The Diaspora Communities of Shanghai, Marcia Reynders Ristaino (Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 2001), xviii + 369 pp., $65.00.

Here is a book review which can be used as a source:

Vamos, Peter. "Port of Last Resort: The Diaspora Communities of Shanghai (review)." Holocaust and Genocide Studies. Volume 18, Number 1, Spring 2004, pp. 115-118 - At Project MUSE

WhisperToMe (talk) 11:27, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously biased as all get-out, but here's the article from the 1880s Encyclopædia Britannica, 9th ed. (Already formatted on the page in the caption for the new map.) — LlywelynII 18:41, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Historical Indigenous population and migration to Shanghai

Publications of Professor Hui LĬ

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/publication.htm

47[D11] Yang Jun, Li Hui, Jin Jian-Zhong, Jin Li, Lu Da-Ru (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69. ◙

     [PDF fulltext ]  [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D11.pdf

46[D12] Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179.

     [PDF fulltext ]  [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D12.pdf

http://www.comonca.org.cn/LH/Documents/D12.pdf

35[D10] Li Hui, Xu Li-Qun, Zhou Zhen-He, Zhang Ling-Jun, Jin Jian-Zhong, Lu Da-Ru, Jin Li (2003) Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Principal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. J Genet Mol Biol 14(4):233-242.

     [PDF fulltext] [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D10.pdf

http://comonca.org.cn/LH/Documents/D10.pdf

Rajmaan (talk) 03:30, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/1publication2.htm

[D11] 杨俊,李辉,金建中,金力,卢大儒 (2004) 上海原住民的Y染色体遗传分析. 中央民族大学学报(自然科学版) 13(1):60-69. Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69.

     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D11.pdf

[D12] 李辉 (2004) 上海历史上的民族变迁. 国立国父纪念馆馆刊(台北) 13:168-179. Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179.

     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D12.pdf

[D10] Li H, Xu LQ, Zhou ZH, Zhang LJ, Jin JZ, LU DR, Jin L (2003) Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Pricipal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. J Genet Mol Biol 14(4):233-242.

     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D10.pdf

http://plaza.ufl.edu/lqxu/blyshlee/pubzh.htm

[D10] Li H, Xu LQ, Zhou ZH, Zhang LJ, Jin JZ, LU DR, Jin L. Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Pricipal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. Journal of Genetics and Molecular Biology,2003, 14(4):233-242.

                                                                                                                      [PDF�ļ�]

[D11] �,��,��,��,¬��.�Ϻ�ԭס��YȾɫ��Ŵ��. ��ѧѧ��(��Ȼ��ѧ��).2004,13(1):60-69. Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR. Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities.2004, 13(1):60-69.

                                                                                                                       http://www.wanfangdata.com.cn/qikan/periodical.articles/zymzdxxb-zrkxb/zymz2004/0401/040111.htm

[D12] ��. �Ϻ��ʷ�ϵ��Ǩ. ��ݹݿ�(̨��),,2004,13:168-179. Li Hui. The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei),,2004,13:168-179.

                                                                                                                     http://www.yatsen.gov.tw/chinese/publication/index.php?p_id=13                           [PDF�ļ�]

http://plaza.ufl.edu/lqxu/blyshlee/paper/D12.pdf

http://www.ranhaer.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=13331

47[D11] 杨俊,李辉,金建中,金力,卢大儒 (2004) 上海原住民的Y染色体遗传分析. 中央民族大学学报(自然科学版) 13(1):60-69.

Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69.

     [PDF全文下载] [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/Documents/D11.pdf

46[D12] 李辉 (2004) 上海历史上的民族变迁. 国立国父纪念馆馆刊(台北) 13:168-179.

Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179.

     [PDF全文下载]  [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/Documents/D12.pdf

Timeline of Shanghai

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 17:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]