Talk:German Instrument of Surrender/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

redraft

I have reverted the text below:

"On 14 March 1945, the EAC held a meeting with the representatives of Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Norway, Yugoslavia and Greece on the issue of the instrument of surrender. The Czechoslovakian government proposed the document shall include a paragraph against acquisition of territories by force and would mention the responsibility of the German state to the war. The governments of Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg, concerned with their positions as small Allied nations, recommended that the instrument of surrender shall include a specific acknowledgement of the part to be played by the small countries in the control of Germany. The Norwegian government requested the document to include specific reference to the demand of surrender of the German troops in Norway. The Yugoslav government declared its intention to refrain from any specific recommendations until an agreement on unity government was reached between Josip Broz Tito and Prime Minister Ivan Šubašić. The Greek government requested to include in the document a demand to all German forces that may remain on Greek territory at the moment of surrender to surrender their military equipment to the Greek Royal government."

So far as I can tell; none of these changes ever made it into the EAC text. TomHennell (talk) 16:28, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

References

9 May

", since the definitive signing occurred after midnight Moscow time" - this is nonsense. 85.180.173.66 (talk) 16:30, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

File:Field Marshall Keitel signs German surrender terms in Berlin 8 May 1945 - Restoration.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Field Marshall Keitel signs German surrender terms in Berlin 8 May 1945 - Restoration.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 8, 2020. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2020-05-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:26, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Picture of the day

The German Instrument of Surrender was the legal document that effected the termination of the Nazi regime and ended World War II in Europe. A July 1944 draft version had also included the surrender of the German government, but this was changed due to concern that there might be no functional German government that could surrender; instead, the document stated that it could be "superseded by any general instrument of surrender imposed by, or on behalf of the United Nations", which was done the next month.

This photograph shows Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel signing the German Instrument of Surrender in Berlin. The first surrender document was signed on 7 May 1945 in Reims by General Alfred Jodl, but this version was not recognized by the Soviet High Command and a revised version was required. Prepared in three languages on 8 May, it was not ready for signing in Berlin until after midnight; consequently, the physical signing was delayed until nearly 1:00 a.m. on 9 May, and backdated to 8 May to be consistent with the Reims agreement and public announcements of the surrender already made by Western leaders.Photograph credit: Lt. Moore; restored by Adam Cuerden

Allied Expeditionary Force - ?

line: and the Allied Expeditionary Force together with the Supreme High Command of the Soviet Red Army, with further French and US representatives signing as witnesses. - What body is meant by the term "Allied Expeditionary Force" ? - Thanks for clearing that. --129.187.244.19 (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I see, nowadays we can't agree if men can menstruate, but can we at least agree when Nazi Germany surrendered?!

Somebody should really fix this mess regarding time and dates of the real moment an act was signed (local date and time and, for others to more easily translate into their own timezone, UTC), what's the date written on that act (so we can see if it was backdated/postdated).

This article says "The signing took place 8 May 1945 at 21:20 local time." and "The signing in Berlin took place on 9 May 1945 at 00:16 local time." - at least one is wrong. Or maybe you mean on 8 May 1945 at 21:20 they met, shake hands, start talking and on 9 May 1945 at 00:16 they actually put their signatures on the document? I think the time a document is signed is the time when parties put their signature on the document. If this is just a mistake, ok, let's fix it, let's have in both places the same date and time (and that should be when the parties actually signed imo), if it's not a mistake, but a cheap trick to convince wikipedia readers that both 8 may and 9 may could be considered the "victory day" - that's not nice. Gender fluidity is so much our strength that even German surrender date should be fluid?

In both Reims and Berlin (english transcript, german document - "2301 uhr mitteleuropaeischer zeit am 8 mai") surrender documents, it says German forces will cease operations at May 8, 23:01 CET. Can someone clarify when Nazi Germany surrender became effective (May 8, 23:01 CET), what was the local date and time for different involved parties (US, UK, Germany, USSR)? Were Germany or other central European countries using summer time? May 8, 23:01 CET meant May 9, 00:01 local time (CEST, Central European Summer Time) in Germany, Poland, Italy, Hungary? When German soldiers surrendered, what time Russian soldiers saw on the watches they were stealing from them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.177.121 (talk) 03:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

good spot; the time in the lede para is wrong; the time in the body of the article is right. The signing ceremony was initiated just after midnight local time on 9 May; and the physical signing was completed by 1.00 a.m. But the signing was backdated to 8 May, to be consistent with the previously agreed date and time. The complication being that the Western Allies were using WWII Zulu time - which was double British Summer Time; and hence 'ahead' of local Central European Time (which the Soviets were using). So, 2301 8 May Central European Time corresponded to 0001 9 May Zulu Time. The time in London was an hour 'ahead' of the time in Moscow. TomHennell (talk) 16:09, 9 June 2020 (UTC)