Talk:North Macedonia

Languages in North Macedonia

Article 7 of the North Macedonian constitution says : In the Republic of North Macedonia, the official language is the Macedonian language and its Cyrillic script. - Член 7 Во Република Северна Македонија службен јазик е македонскиот јазик и неговото кирилско писмо. Инквизитор771 (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Based on Article 7 of the North Macedonian constitution, which states that "In the Republic of North Macedonia, the official language is the Macedonian language and its Cyrillic script," it can be inferred that the Albanian language is not officially recognized as a co-official language in the Republic of North Macedonia. The constitution designates Macedonian as the sole official language. Инквизитор771 (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, the Law on Languages of 2019 was not ratified by the President and is deemed to be inconsistent with the North Macedonian Constitution. The Constitutional Court of North Macedonia is set to determine the law's constitutionality in October 2024. Инквизитор771 (talk) 18:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Until the Constitutional Court of North Macedonia renders a decision on the legality of the Law on Languages, Macedonian remains the sole official language of the Republic. Инквизитор771 (talk) 18:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

In light of these developments, I propose that we temporarily remove references to Albanian as an official language of North Macedonia from this article until the Constitutional Court's decision is finalized. This approach ensures that the content remains consistent with the current constitutional provisions and avoids potential misinformation. Инквизитор771 (talk) 18:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. --Local hero ^talk 22:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a POV-joke. On 15 January 2019 the Law on the Use of Languages came into effect, despite the refusal of President Gjorge Ivanov to sign off on it. The law was published in the government gazette after being signed by parliament Speaker Talat Xhaferi. In this way Albanian became a second official language in North Macedonia. The Albanian language until then could only be co-official in the areas where the Albanian minority represented at least 20% of the population per the 2008 Law on the Use of Languages spoken by at least 20% of the citizens in the units of the local self-government. The new law extended the official use of Albanian over the entire territory of the country. Under the new legislation, Macedonian continues to be the primary official language, while Albanian may be used now as a second one, including at a national level in official matters. The legislation stipulates also all public institutions in the country will provide Albanian translations in their everyday work. The fact that the constitutional court has been referred to and how and when it will rule on the matter is irrelevant to the current legislation, before the decision of the court, and even afterwards, if the court accepts that the law does not violate the constitution itself. Jingiby (talk) 17:25, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Your reply is just a copy-paste of text from Languages of North Macedonia. Anyway, per Article 7 of the constitution, only Macedonian is the official language. The constitutionality of the law mentioned in your copy-paste is pending. That being said, use of Albanian is definitely in more widespread use in reality following this law, whether or not it is constitutional. --Local hero ^talk 21:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

My replay is backed by reliable sources in the corresponding article. That above is only POV. Jingiby (talk) 12:11, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

The constitutional court case is POV to point out? I was referring to the laziness of your reply, not the sourcing backing the text in the article. --Local hero ^talk 21:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

The Constitutional Court was referred to this issue by the ultra-left, pro-Russian, and even according to some, pro-fascist Levica Party back in 2019. Until now, the court was silent, but after the ultranationalists from DPMNE came to power, the court thought of opening a case. So the issue is not from yesterday and this legislation that has been in effect until now remains valid until the court pronounces.Jingiby (talk) 03:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

According to the Macedonian Constitution the official language is Macedonian. There, there was the new law of 5 January 2019 the Law on the Use of Languages, that makes Albanian co-official. However - is it a silly point to make? - I think Macedonian is not 'co-official' but simply 'official'. Also, Albanian is not co-official in Macedoniandefence, central police and monetary policy. Hence the supremacy in North Macedonia remains with the Macedonian language.

So these points can be made in the article, no? Politis (talk) 19:14, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Macedonian is official, while Albanian is co-official. Jingiby (talk) 19:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Your attempt to justify the Law on the Use of Languages is not just misguided—it's an outright farce. The Constitutional Court’s involvement in this issue is riddled with controversies and lacks true legitimacy. It’s no secret that this court has shown favoritism toward nationalist agendas, undermining its credibility.

The insistence on treating Albanian as a co-official language flies in the face of our constitution, which unequivocally states that Macedonian is the sole official language. Until the court rules on this matter, the law is effectively null and void. Continuing to reference Albanian in this context is a dangerous precedent that threatens the very foundation of our national identity.

It's time to face the facts: Albanian should be removed as a co-official language until the court reaches a legitimate decision. Anything less is a disservice to the rule of law and an insult to the Macedonian people. 92.53.18.135 (talk) 11:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree with this stance. The idea that Albanian should be treated as a co-official language without a proper Constitutional Court ruling is absolutely wrong. Our constitution is clear: Macedonian is the only official language, and any attempts to bypass that with a flawed law should be challenged.

The court itself isn't biased toward nationalist forces as some claim—it's performing its duty to uphold the constitution. The law pushed through in 2019, without proper presidential approval and with the involvement of individuals like Talat Xhaferi, is deeply questionable. Until a legitimate, constitutional ruling is made, Albanian must be removed from any references as a co-official language.

This is about ensuring the rule of law, not bending to political convenience. Ethnicity should never override the clear legal framework that governs our country. Инквизитор771 (talk) 11:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Your attempt to downplay the significance of the co-official status of Albanian is not just misleading; it’s a blatant oversimplification of a complex and critical issue. Yes, Macedonian is the sole official language according to our constitution, but the Law on the Use of Languages that was passed is not merely a footnote—it's a legal document that attempted to elevate Albanian to co-official status across the country.

Claiming that Macedonian is simply “official” while Albanian holds a “co-official” designation implies that Albanian can be sidelined, which undermines the impact of that law and disregards the voices of significant segments of our population. You may argue that Albanian is not recognized in certain areas like defense or monetary policy, but that only highlights the inconsistency and contentiousness of this legislation, which is currently awaiting a constitutional verdict.

This situation creates a precarious legal landscape where the implications of such laws could destabilize our national identity and legal system. The supremacy of Macedonian language should be reflected not just in theory but in practice. Until we have a definitive ruling from the Constitutional Court, the existence of Albanian as a co-official language is legally questionable and should be challenged vigorously.

Your assertion that this can simply be brushed off as a "silly point" only reveals a lack of understanding of the broader implications for our society. This is not just about semantics; it’s about preserving the constitutional integrity of North Macedonia. Инквизитор771 (talk) 11:52, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Your comments just further expose your own POV and inability to objectively evaluate the topic at hand (i.e., refusal to use 'VMRO-DPMNE' in comments, bringing up irrelevant ideological leanings of Levica, etc.). That the constitution only names Macedonian as official must be noted in the article. --Local hero ^talk 02:21, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

First of all i'm sick of you, your entire response reeks of bad faith and an inability to engage in a constructive conversation. Resorting to cheap shots about my supposed "POV" only shows you're trying to avoid the real issue. Whether I mention VMRO-DPMNE or Levica is irrelevant to the fact that the constitution clearly names Macedonian as the only official language. That’s a legal fact, not an opinion, and your attempt to downplay it shows your own bias.

As for the "law on languages," it is currently under review by the Constitutional Court. Until there is a final ruling, it's reckless and misleading to claim that Albanian has been definitively established as a co-official language. The law’s constitutionality is being questioned, and it would be premature for Wikipedia to recognize something that might soon be overturned. The objectivity you so self-righteously claim to uphold demands we respect the current legal framework, not indulge in wishful thinking.

Instead of dodging the issue, I suggest you stick to the facts at hand: the constitution only recognizes Macedonian, and the court’s decision will determine whether that changes. Trying to manipulate language for political reasons violates Wikipedia's neutrality policy. So drop the baseless accusations and deal with the actual legal status of the languages in Macedonia. Инквизитор771 (talk) 21:09, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I expect a proper, respectful discussion moving forward, without resorting to propaganda or political games. The national identity and unity of Macedonia are not up for negotiation, and it’s time for an honest, fact-based conversation. Stop dodging the issue and talk to me directly if you have any valid points to make. Инквизитор771 (talk) 21:18, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

AND stop dodging this topic - Еднаш збори со мене ко нормален човек ако сакаш можеме на македонски да збориме прекини да бегаш од темава. Инквизитор771 (talk) 21:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

The Constitutional Court is set to hold a constitutive session on December 11, 2024, regarding the legality of the 2019 Law on Languages. It is important to acknowledge that the outcomes of this session, as determined by the court, are binding and must be respected. This is a critical moment for upholding the rule of law and ensuring adherence to Macedonia's constitutional principles. Инквизитор771 (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 January 2025

I think the lasting date for the 2001 insurgency should be added to the infobox 185.32.22.83 (talk) 19:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Other thing that should be added to the infobox

The name change from Macedonia to North Macedonia should also be added to the infobox. 185.32.22.83 (talk) 20:01, 2 January 2025 (UTC)