Talk:DeLancey W. Gill

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst talk 18:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

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DeLancey W. Gill

• ... that despite having no professional training or experience, DeLancey W. Gill (pictured) was appointed to take thousands of photographs for the Smithsonian Institution? Source: From "De Lancey W. Gill: Photographer for the Bureau of American Ethnology. History of Photography.", pg 8-9
  "How Gill learned photography is not entirely clear. Perhaps an answer is provided in his assertion that his artistic and scientific accomplishments proceeded largely from self-teaching." (pg 8.)
  "Thus Gill received his subjects, sometimes as many as 300 a year. His total production is not counted, but it is estimated to include between 2000 and 3000 portraits." (pg 9.)
  • Reviewed:

Created by Generalissima (talk). Self-nominated at 16:58, 2 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/DeLancey W. Gill; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: @Generalissima: Good article. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:54, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

• @Generalissima and Onegreatjoke: The citation needs to follow the hook sentence in the article not at the end of the paragraph with the hook fact. I moved it to comply with DYK Criteria. Lightburst (talk) 18:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:DeLancey W. Gill/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Elli (talk · contribs) 04:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello! I'll review this article over the next few days (depending on my availability). Elli (talk | contribs) 04:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Image licensing

• File:Portrait of DeLancey W. Gill (cropped).jpg
  • source indicates picture was published before 1928
• File:DeLancey Gill, Mouth of James Creek.tif
  • source indicates picture was published before 1928
• File:Portrait (Profile) of Samuel Schanowa in Partial Native Dress with Ornaments February 1905.jpg
  • published before 1928 but linking the exact source URL would be preferable
• File:Chief Joseph 1900 3.jpg
  • published before 1928 but linking the exact source URL would be preferable

Overall, there aren't any issues here, but being specific about the image sources would be good. Elli (talk | contribs) 05:07, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I added the sources for the two images without direct links. Generalissima (talk) 18:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Early life and painting career

• Source says She followed her new husband to Fort Laramie, and the young Gill, then almost 15, elected to remain in the East and went to Washington to live with an aunt. while the article says At 15; should probably clarify this.

No issues for the rest of the section. Elli (talk | contribs) 11:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for catching this. Corrected. Generalissima (talk) 18:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Photography

• Link Wells M. Sawyer? I'd also link Bureau of American Ethnology again here since it's only otherwise linked in the lead.
• I'd elaborate a bit more in the second paragraph on what exactly BAE was doing -- from the first source, the paragraph starting with In 1894, Powell resigned and the one after that both include a lot of relevant information that isn't mentioned here (not that you have to mention all of it, of course, but I think some more context/details would be good).
• He visited Jamestown, Virginia in 1899 and photographed members of the Pamunkey. that's not what the source says? He went to the Paumunkey Reservation in 1899 and to Jamestown in 1907 (to photograph a particular event).
• The following year, he partnered with William John McGee on an expedition to Arizona and New Mexico, photographing members of the Akimel O'odham, Cocopah, Seri, and Tohono Oʼodham. the source says In 1900, he accompanied W. J. McGee on his second expedition to the lands of the Papago, Pima, Cocopa, and Seri in the southwestern United States and northwestern Mexico, one of the earliest anthropological expeditions to those areas. You might want to add a footnote explaining the names these tribes/reservations were referred to at the time for clarity.
• In one 1903 sitting, Gill asked for a mark from Joseph on a proof. He proceeded to sign his name alongside the year 1900. Protests from Gill were ignored, with Joseph claiming it was exactly how he was taught to sign by a friend. This isn't really clear; also I can't find it in the cited source?
• His 1905 portrait of Hollow Horn Bear was used as a 14 cent postage stamp in 1923. source says His portrait of the Hollow Horn Bear was used on the United States 14 cent stamp issued in 1922. Also you might want to link to the relevant section part of US Regular Issues of 1922–1931, where this is mentioned. The stamp might also be a good picture to add to the article, though that is up to you.

Those are the main things I noticed in this section (not counting the "Critique" subsection which I have not reviewed yet). Elli (talk | contribs) 00:50, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I have implemented the suggested changes. The source for the Chief Joseph story is on pg. 11 of the Glenn source and pg. 180 of Fleming's. Generalissima (talk) 02:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Your improvements here look good. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Critique

• Maybe include his picture of Wolf Robe in this section instead of Chief Joseph, given that you discuss this photo here?
• However, such errors were to a significantly lesser degree than his contemporaries. might be missing something obvious but where is the source for this?

Other than that, this section looks good. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Good catch, Glenn was specifically comparing him to Curtis on pg 18. Corrected this.Generalissima (talk) 22:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Personal life

• Gill married his first wife, Rose DeLima Draper on May 25, 1881. add another comma?
• Be clearer about the number of children he had with each wife?

Everything else looks good.

One of the problems is that the sources themselves are unclear about which children came from which spouses. Glenn states he had six children with his first wife, and then "two additional children by [Schley] and Mary Wright Gill. Though, looking at this, I think this means one child per wife. Generalissima (talk) 22:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Footnotes and references

• Standardize the punctuation here (one footnote has a period at the end and the other doesn't). Both of them appear to be full sentences.
• Maybe adding page numbers for Glenn 1983 would be good (if you don't want to re-do the citation style here, you could use {{rp}})? It's quite a big source and can be a bit annoying to look through to verify the article's various claims. This isn't necessary though.

Thank you, corrected footnote punctuation.Generalissima (talk) 22:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Lead

• Characterized as precise and exact in his landscapes, Gill captured views of working class and rural areas of D.C. not otherwise depicted in period art. You should probably note him capturing rural views on "Early life and painting career"; it isn't clearly mentioned in the prose. Also, "not otherwise depicted" is a bit stronger than the "seldom included" that paragraph 3 states (which I assume is what you are using here).
• The rest of the content of the lead is fine, though I might mention his photography of Natives in the first paragraph and use the second paragraph to give a brief summary of his career (from his early photos of DC to his work photographing Natives).
  • Corrected, thank you for suggestions here.Generalissima (talk) 22:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Overall, this article is in pretty good shape and once you address these comments I'll promote it to GA. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:55, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Elli, thank you so much for your thorough review! I have implemented the suggested changes. Generalissima (talk) 22:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Final

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Nice work! Elli (talk | contribs) 02:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)