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Good articleBhikshatana has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 19, 2011Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on April 23, 2011.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Tamil devotional poetry describes how clothes of married women slipped off at the sight of the Hindu god Shiva appearing in the form of a naked beggar (pictured)?

2011 copy edits

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GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Bhikshatana/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lemurbaby (talk) 02:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
  • There is some unclear language - would you please rephrase this?
  • "which abused him by a mere snap of his nail" - abused? also, verbal tense? Do you mean he flicked him with his fingernail?
Angered by Brahma's vanity, Shiva—as the terrifying Bhairava—cut off one head of the five-headed Brahma (Brahma abused Shiva) by a mere snap of his nail. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can you explain for me what exactly in this story is being "iconographically depicted as Brahmashirascheda-murti"?
Iconographically, this aspect of Shiva beheading Brahma is represented as https://picasaweb.google.com/injamaven/KanchipuramThirukkazhukundram#5448613675414429890 Brahmashirascheda-murti. "Bhikshatana is considered a gentler form of Shiva's fierce aspect Bhairava and a gentle phase between Bhairava's two gruesome forms, one of which decapitates the god Brahma (Brahmashirascheda-murti) and the other of which murders the god Vishnu's gatekeeper (kankala-murti)". Redtigerxyz Talk 13:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he was resurrected due to the power of his austerities" - austerities?
meaning: "ascetic practices". Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How can he perform ascetic practices if he's dead? Or did he "build up credit" through an ascetic lifestyle that enabled him to spring back from death?
the latter. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "finding the head of an infinite Shiva Linga to prove his superiority" - insufficient significance and context
Added Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Brahmahatya assumes the form of a ghoulish woman " - the sin takes a corporeal form? This needs to be clarified
Yes. What more clarification is needed? Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Vishnu's gatekeeper Vishvaksena did not allow him to appear" - who? what is meant by "appear"?
Corrected. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bhikshatana-Shiva's castration, and establishment..." - is castration the best word? When you say "fall" do you mean "fall off" or "go flaccid"?
fall off. The scholar uses the same term. Here, it means fall of the phallus. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When they regain their senses they perform..." - who?
Done. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a dwarf, all of which" - why? to attack Shiva? clarify
yes. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Though Shiva is often described as a naked ascetic Yogi, Bhikshatana is a rare exception where Shiva is portrayed nude" - contast unclear here
Though Shiva is often described as a naked ascetic, iconographically he is rarely portrayed as nude, Bhikshatana being nude is thus an exception. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Though Shiva is often described as a beggar, the theme of the expiatory wandering—which is the core of the Bhikshatana tale—lies in the Kapalika and Pashupata sects." What is the relationship between these sects and all the various texts you cited previously which relate the tale of expiatory wandering? Also, please use another word than "lie" (the theme... lies in the sects...). As currently written it's a little unclear. I would recommend you explicitly connect Kapalika to Kapali for readers who are not already familiar with the connection. (I'm not familiar myself, but I'm guessing there's a connection from the similarity in the names.) Also, any connection to the Pashupata sect is not well identified in the discussion you provide.
  • The organization of the paragraph beginning "The theme of Shiva as a beggar is not unique..." could be tightened by introducing the focus early on. I've made a major edit here that I believe helps the focus, but in doing so cut out one of your references and some information that might be better incorporated elsewhere. Have a look and see what you think.
The theme of the Expiatory wandering which is unique to Bhikshatana originates from kapalika and pashupata sects, but the general idea of Shiva as a beggar is well rooted in Hindu literature, where is often described as a beggar-ascetic. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any tie between the Pashupata sect and Bhikshatana other than the fact that the story of the expiatory wandering originated from it? Are there similarities in ascetic practices etc like you discuss among the Kapalika sect?
Actually, the early Pashupata sect split into the extreme Kalamukha and Kapalika and the moderate Siddhanta school. The ascetic traditions of the original Pashupata sect were passed on to the Kapalika, who were different from the pashupatas as they carried skulls. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Shiva is described to have cast his form" - what does it mean to "cast his form"?
The original Shiva does not go wandering. He separates the body of Bhairava from his his own to do the wandering.Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "vetted to a Bhrunaghna sinner" - not clear what you mean by "vetted"
Done. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a surrounding deity in an iconographic design" - a background deity? a lesser deity?
Done. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on the outside of the temple proper on an inner road" - on a road within the temple complex? (I'm assuming there are no roads running through the main temple itself)
Done. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "warn the women of deceptions and cunning" - whose? Was he warning them not to be this way, or warning them that others may be this way?
according to the poet appar, Bhikshatna's job is to enlighten the women, though he comes disguised as a beggar. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's still pretty unclear - enlighten them about what - their own behavior or that of others? Is further information available that we can use to clarify this?
In general, his objective is about educating the women about cunning in the world, than to acquire food from them that is what the poem conveys. It does not clearly say is he talking about their own behavior or that of others. Redtigerxyz Talk 13:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's leave it as is for now - perhaps if you choose to try to elevate this to FA, other editors will be able to propose an alternate phrasing.
  • The Development and Adoration section could use some tightening of organization. It would be good to more clearly group the information into themed paragraphs to help the reader follow the flow of your thoughts here. Some of the information might fit better into other sections.
Reorganized a little. Please let me of specific instances which you feel are still out of place. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  1. B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
  1. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
  1. C. No original research:
  2. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  3. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  4. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  5. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  6. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Comments

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Great work as always. Thank you so much for your contributions to Hinduism-related topics here on Wikipedia. I'm happy to award this fine article GA status. Lemurbaby (talk) 14:27, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the pass and copyedit. Very few GA reviewers improve the reviewed article so much. Thanks for being one of them. Your Madagascar related artcles are always a joy to read. Redtigerxyz Talk 14:39, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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