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Talk:Battle of Ekiokpagha/GA2

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Nominator: Vanderwaalforces (talk · contribs) 13:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Parsecboy (talk · contribs) 13:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been sitting for quite a while, so I'll pick it up. Parsecboy (talk) 13:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Parsecboy Thank you for looking at this. I'd be happy to work with your guidance. Thanks again. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:11, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem at all - let me know if there's anything I can make clearer. Parsecboy (talk) 15:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Lead section
  • The battle was between Ewedo and Ogiamien III, the head of a royal family in the Benin Empire. It was a result of a power struggle between the two parties, who both had claims to the throne and territory of Benin. - this could be worded better. At a minimum, Ewedo should also be introduced in the text, so we don't force readers to click a link to see who he was. I would center the fact that the war was over a succession crisis, along the lines of "The battle was fought between Ewedo, the recently coronated Oba of Benin, and Ogiamien III, the head of a royal family in the Benin Empire who disputed his claim to the throne."
  • The link to Oba of Benin needs to be at first use of the term Oba
Background
  • This section is somewhat difficult to follow for someone who doesn't know about the topic - there's probably more context needed
Battle
  • Context here is still an issue. For example:
  • Where is the description of the actual battle? This section is mostly about preparations for the battle and then its aftermath
    • @Parsecboy: Okay, if you read this section you'd see that Ewedo's men "prematurely" eliminated Ogiamien's Oliha. There was not really an actual battle as the word imply. But this event is mostly notable because it was a battle that ended up not being a fight (this is in my opinion after researching the history of it too). This is particularly described in the third and fourth paragraphs. I hope this clarified it for you. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's kind of what I expected - do the sources usually call this a battle? Or is there a more descriptive title? If not, can we make clear that we aren't talking about a largely symbolic event? I think the average reader would expect to hear about a clash of armies at some point, or something. Relatedly, the line "This plan aimed to entice Ogiamien III into a carefully laid trap, culminating in a decisive battle to secure Ewedo's authority." probably ought to be revised to make clearer that we aren't talking about a literal battle. Parsecboy (talk) 21:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        @Parsecboy Yes, sources do call it a "battle", at least the sources I have read so far, both cited and not cited. What do you think this, This plan aimed to entice Ogiamien III into a carefully laid trap, culminating in a decisive battle to secure Ewedo's authority. should be revised to? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 02:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm looking at changing "battle" to "conflict"... does that work? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 02:58, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think that's ok there. And if the sources refer to it as a battle, then we should too. It can be tough with these sorts of pre-modern events to document them well (especially ones like this, where there is no doubt a semi-mythological aspect to them). We call it a battle, because that's how sources refer to it, but it's no doubt called that because of the popular tradition. Presumably there was no real fighting apart from the death of Oliha, but in modern parlance we'd call that a skirmish at most. I think what we need is a sentence in the introduction like the one at the Battle of the Caudine Forks, another "battle" with no actual fighting. Parsecboy (talk) 13:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          @Parsecboy That's right. I copied this from the article above... Its designation as a battle is a mere historical formality: there was no fighting and there were no casualties. It appears that there were no casualties in the one above, but there was a casualty in this one, Chief Oliha's death. So, maybe I'd just say Its designation as a battle is a mere historical formality as there was no fighting but Ogiamien's Oliha was eliminated. WDYT? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aftermath and legacy
General comments
  • There are some grammatical issues throughout (particularly relating to definite articles), such as "contested the Eweka's", "including Ewedo, and Ogiamien family", "with the Ogiamien formally", etc.
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