Talk:Attack on UDR Clogher barracks

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Attack on UDR Clogher barracks article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: British / European

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	British military history task force
	European military history task force

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Irish republicanism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish republicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish republicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish republicanismIrish republicanism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)
Neutrality: All editors on Troubles-related articles are directed to get the advice of neutral parties via means such as outside opinions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Weaponry?

Can we clarify some of the points on the weaponry used:

PIRA, "heavy machine-guns, rockets and improvised mortars"

What were these HMGs? I rather doubt that such weaponry was either available or used (a HMG is something like a tripod-mounted, crew-served weapon capable of sustained fire). Also were these "rockets" improvised, RPGs, LAWs or something else? Then what were the "improvised mortars"? Although the PIRA became quite expert at these later on, this was early days for them and they certainly weren't at the barrack buster stage.

British Army

What were the Ferrets armed with? Assuming a turret mount, this would either have been the Browning or a Bren (too early for the GPMG mount, which I don't think was deployed until after the Ferret went from NI). A Bren is an LMG, the Browning more of a medium. If we don't know which, we'd be better to just say MG. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:05, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, good point.

The Ferrets first. Potter (p. 127) says that the "Ferrets scout cars opened fire with their Browning machine guns,(...)", so we can assume that (at least for this source) the carriers at Clogher mounted .30 Brownings. If you can produce another source to sustain that the Ferrets didn't mounted .30s during their deployement to NI, then feel free to change things accordingly.

PIRA weaponry. Potter (also on p. 127) explicity mentions the Soviet RPG-7, I guess there is no ambiguity there. Same thing for the Garand confiscated after the attack, in the sense that the bulk of sources agree that this kind of rifle was available to the PIRA at the time. I have my doubts regarding the presence of AK47s in their inventory in 1974, and I know from other authors (notably this one), that, while not barrack busters, the Provisionals had already developed four or five types of improvised mortars by 1974. Who speaks about HMGs in the hands of the provisionals is O'Callaghan (cited by Potter). Certainly a dubious claim, since the first medium machine guns smuggled from USA into Ireland by the provos were the M60s, which didn´t arrive until 1977. I will remove any direct mention of the PIRA's HMGs from the lede, replacing it for "automatic weapons".Darius (talk) 19:41, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]