Talk:Adult

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 September 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Funkd2019.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:27, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Social Status of Adulthood

I'm no expert, but this section seems very POV to me, accusing adults of adultism and holding a double standard, as well as accusing them of immature behavior. 76.182.114.112 21:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

accusing adults of adultism and holding a double standard, as well as accusing them of immature behavior. Well, that is not Wikipedianly-POVed/NPOVed, that is simply a truthful statement. KSM-2501ZX, IP address:= 200.155.188.3 17:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree, that needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.122.78 (talk) 01:50, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

I think that adults do think there better then others and do hold a double standard. I admit to doing this myself although I do think it's wrong. Those who don't do this are in the very very small minority and the majority of people do this but are ignorant to there actions. There should however be double standards as not having double standards would mean that all people would be able to do things like consuming alcohol. If a child was to make his own decision to drink alcohol when they are only small and the body isn't mature they would suffer from consequences they didn't know exist. This is why double standards do need to exist but they shouldn't exist in age. Using the same alcohol example a person is able to make a informed decision to drink alcohol at lots of different ages to restrict people because of age on this issue is very wrong as many other issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.63.253 (talk) 05:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.Jjdon (talk) 22:09, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

adulv1666 2001:4455:572:5E00:F899:20EC:6B0D:86AB (talk) 05:54, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Which number?

The legal age section contains the following:

15: Iran (21) 16: Scotland (21) 17: Indonesia (20) 18: South Africa (18)

Which one is the age - the number in parenthesis or the number before the colon? Either way, what's the other number? Tompagenet 13:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The link at the bottom to the German child protection pdf does not look like it belongs to this page--BozMo|talk 13:33, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

---

This article only talks about legal adulthood, and only touches on biological adulthood. I think it should be expanded to include human biological adulthood.

I agree--biological and legal adulthood were the same in many societies, but are virtually unrelated in many modern societies. I added a bit about that, but it could use more. Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I created a section for it, but it could still use some expanding. KPalicz 16:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

---

"Some propose that moving into adulthood involves an emotional structuring of denial. This process becomes necessary to cope with one's own behaviour, especially in uncomfortable situations, and also the behaviour of others."

Err WTF is this psychobabble, it's either scientology or some kind of mumbo jumbo religion nonsense of some kind. Not quite NPOV. Some propose that it's deleted. Someone should try to change this article so it doesn't look like a definition of who gets admitted to an over 18s porn flick.--SeanONE

As this comment has been here almost two months and no one has explained it, I'm removing it from the article. Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Sources

I added a couple of sources for some of this, but this article still needs sources. I'll try to work on adding more, but anyone else is free to beat me to it! Adam Newton 03:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's get pictures for this article!!!

Can we get more pictures? Can we have a photo of a middle aged and old people? The child article has tons of pictures. Why can't this article have some pictures? We need to show some diversity. Is it that hard for people to go out to take some pictures. It's not that hard. (209.177.21.6 - Talk)

What's stopping you then? --Brideshead 21:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Fix UK limits, vandalism, 3RR

I've been tracking edits of a potential vandalism account of which has edited this page, and I think I've confused myself a little on the reverting. I can't revert any more as per 3RR (I never like to go beyond 2), so can somebody please repair or revert my edits to remove the vandalism? Many thanks /Marbles 18:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

to experience the world from a first-person standpoint instead of through the parents.

This is fairly vague, but if I understand its meaning correctly, a good portion of the human population - and nearly its entire population preceding the modern era - never truly reaches adulthood. I've been given the impression that prior to the spread of western individualism, personal identity was inseparable from the identity and welfare of the family, past and future. I may be wrong though. Closest thing I can think of to cite is Origins of English Individualism by Alan Macfarlane. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.141.223 (talk) 05:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

unsourced section and fix up

This article could use some actual science. It seems to go towards the popular conception of adulthood and then ignores neurological and psychological conceptions of adulthood. In the neurological sense adulthood occurs in bursts throughout the teenage years and the early 20s. Why not mention it? YVNP (talk) 11:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. 24.255.28.107 (talk) 08:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

This is a dumb article....

First of all, you are not still growing or just finished growing at the age of 25!! Hello!!!

Secondly, the characteristics that define an adult in the "graph" down below is absurd. I've seen some very mature kids and teens that meet these criteria very well and some unstable adults (whether by a fault of their own or not) living in this world.

Punkymonkey987 (talk) 21:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Age of Consent in the Vatican

Where is the reference for the claim that "the age of consent for sexual relations in the Vatican is 12"?

Joo (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC). Adult —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.68.217.25 (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Skeletal adulthood

What about skeletal maturity? The Wikipedia page on bones states that longitudinal growth stops around age 18-25. So there is when we are literally "all grown-up". Aldo L (talk) 01:46, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

"Social Construct"

Why is adolescence referred to as a "social construct" that was "created"? Isn't it a culturally, psychologically and biologically acknowledged stage in a person's life? On the Wiki page for adolescence, it is not defined as a social construct. I think there is some internal inconsistency here, with someone writing in a deliberate point of view because they have it out for teenagers. 23:30, 12 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.176.230 (talk)

It is defined as a social construct in the Adolescence article, though not directly called one. See the Adolescence#History section, which can certainly be expanded. Just the fact that there is inconsistency in how to define adolescence (as the lead of the Adolescence article shows) tells us that it is a social construct. It overlaps with the definition of preadolescence, and the complications come from whether or not to mark adolescence as the start of puberty or the start of the teenage stage. Puberty and the teenage stage used to occur at about the same time, but they typically do not any longer. And both aspects can be considered "the start of adolescence." And let's not forget that the age of majority (age that one is legally considered an adult) varies. So, yes, taking all that into account, adolescence is definitely socially-constructed. It has nothing to do with "having it out for teenagers." Ask yourself, "Do people generally assign 'adolescence' to non-human animals and other such living beings?" If the answer is no, which is the correct answer, then that should tell you "definite social construct." No matter how culturally, psychologically and biologically recognized. Biologically, people are either children or adults, unless (as the article notes) one's definition of "adult" is a person who is finished with puberty. But then again, people are usually finished with puberty before or by the time they turn 16. Flyer22 (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

The article states, "Further evidence of adulthood as a social construction is illustrated by the changing criteria of adulthood over time." Shouldn't there be more research on these changing criteria? These changes can be subjective so there should be more objective points on how the criteria has changed. Toriwomack5 (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Biological adult?

I can't seem to find many references beyond this article that use "biological adult" as a key distinction - would I be stepping on anyone's toes if I reworked that section to focus less on terminology and more on the different ways societies have defined adulthood based on biological features? --Lunar Jesters _(talk) 22:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure what you mean; do you mean that the term biological adult is used significantly less than the term legal adult? If so, I'm sure that the section headings are titled by those names not as indicators that the sources use those exact terms, but rather because there is nothing better to title those sections. Titling the first one Biological status of adulthood, for example, is long-winded, as is Legal status of adulthood. By contrast, Biological adulthood and Legal adulthood are concise. As for reworking that section, as you can see, that section (and the entire article) needs reworking. I don't mind you reworking it, but I would rather something stay there in that section about the distinction (including pubertal time frames/aspects), considering that legal adulthood is a social construct that some societies do not follow. Flyer22 (talk) 22:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

This whole article is terrible. I was surprised to read that biological adulthood BEGINS at the onset of puberty (rather than say menarche and ejaculative competence (or whatever)). So, a 9 year old is a biological adult if she has breast buds??? I don't believe it! If this nonsense is in fact the medical and/or biological communities' definition, which I challenge to be fact, then a good valid citation is needed. The New York Times is certainly NOT adequate here. I guarantee you that a 9 year old is seeing a pediatrician and NOT an OB/Gyn (in the USA). Seems to me the whole article is in desperate need of a rewrite. The space allocated to pornography is ridiculous. The use of the phrases "the Christian Bible" (as if there is only one) and "Cannon" law (as if there is only one) is profoundly in error. I could go on, each section contains significant flaws. Adulthood has biological, social, legal, psychological/behavioral, and religious meanings. The lede's concentration on the biological and legal meaning and its ignoring the fact (imho) that the SOCIAL meaning (context dependent) is THE one most often intended is NOT the best way to proceed, imho. Please note that an 18 year old in a combat platoon is regarded (generally) as an adult, while that same person on a college campus might be considered an adolescent. (is educational adulthood another category?).173.189.79.137 (talk) 22:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

As you can see above, I agree that the article is terrible. And despite currently being billed as the editor who has made the most edits to it, I didn't add most of the material in this article; the significant majority of my edits to it have been tweaks or reverts of vandalism. Flyer22 (talk) 22:12, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

As for puberty, I have seen enough dictionaries, encyclopedias and some very good scholarly texts define a child as "between birth and puberty"; so there are definitely WP:Reliable sources that imply or outright state something along the lines of "once a child hits puberty, they are no longer a child in the biological sense" or "no longer a complete biological child." As for the legal aspect, that obviously falls under the social aspect. But you are correct that there are other social aspects, which the lead briefly addresses. Flyer22 (talk) 22:22, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Social Construction of Adulthood

Greetings, everyone. I've been following the Adult page for a while now. It seems to me this entry needs some further development. I propose adding a new section on the "Social Construction of Adulthood" to illustrate how aging and adulthood goes beyond biological and legal issues. I will likely be adding this section in the coming week. Is this of interest to any of you? Does anyone have any expertise in social components of adulthood in particular and the social construction of aging in general? Michaelramirez (talk) 18:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Michaelramirez, you are apparently a WP:Student editor who appeared joined Wikipedia in January of this year. Hi. The Biological adulthood section already states, "After the social construct of adolescence was created, adulthood split into two forms: biological adulthood and social adulthood." Legal adulthood is a product of the social construction of adulthood. As you know, per WP:Reliable sources, any text you are looking to add would need to be well-sourced. Also take care not to add WP:Undue weight, which can come in various forms. Don't just rely heavily on one author's viewpoint (whether Fausto-Sterling, which you added here at the Masculinity article, or anyone else), and don't present that author's viewpoint as fact. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:56, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn I am new to Wikipedia -- not as a Student Editor, but instead as a Wikipedia Fellow (a cohort of 9 scholars were selected in January for the pilot). Thanks for your feedback. In our training, we were encouraged to post our ideas/proposed changes on the talk pages. I'm glad my post piqued your interest! I am quite familiar with the social construction of aging/adulthood lit. As of the draft I'm working on now, there are 12 academic citations. If you know of other relevant work, I encourage you to add them. I'd love assistance with this. As for the Fausto-Sterling reference on the masculinity page, you must have accessed the piece before I added the other two citations. F-S is a key source, so I started with her. It took me a few hours to find the other sources to add.Michaelramirez (talk) 20:42, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi again, Michaelramirez. I see your draft at User:Michaelramirez/sandbox2. Take care not to WP:Editorialize. For example, you should remove the "of course" wording. Take care not to engage in WP:Synthesis either. I see that you are citing Arnett in your draft. Is this Jeffrey Arnett? If so, you might be interested to know that Wikipedia currently has an entire article on his emerging adulthood concept. It's the Emerging adulthood and early adulthood article. As for Fausto-Sterling, I was simply noting that you should not rely heavily on just one author's viewpoint or present that viewpoint as fact. For not presenting the matter as fact, see WP:INTEXT. I wasn't stating that, at the Masculinity article, you only went by what one author stated.

On a side note: There is no need to WP:Ping me to this page since it's on my watchlist. And pings only work with a fresh signature. I wasn't pinged above. This is because you linked my username after you made your post. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Affirmative. Yes, one source I'm using is Arnett. The material I'll add, you will be happy to read, goes well beyond the confines of Arnett's emerging / young adulthood, and is attentive to dimensions of adulthood he ignores. A nice addition to the topic of adulthood in general. Many thanks. Michaelramirez (talk) 21:29, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Michaelramirez, your addition came out nicely. I made a few tweaks to it. Regarding the "importance of individualistic criteria and the irrelevance of the demographic markers" part, is it clear who made that quote? If so, we need to use WP:In-text attribution for it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Puberty material

JMccoy13, I reverted you here because you engaged in WP:Synthesis (read that policy) and you added inaccurate information. You added, "By definition, puberty ends when sexual maturity has been attained, contrary to the popular misconception that puberty ends when vertical growth ceases. The average age of reaching sexual maturity and therefore the end of puberty is 13 in humans." Um, no. Sources do not state that puberty ends as soon as it begins, which is essentially what your text is stating since you keep trying to define puberty as sexual maturity, and since it's still the case that many boys don't begin puberty until age 11 or 12. The process does not usually does not take one or two years. I reverted you here because your text was still problematic. It was based on this everydayhealth.com source that is not WP:MEDRS-compliant, this WebMD source that is specifically about earlier puberty, and this 1985 "Spermarche--the age of onset of sperm emission" source. In your edit summary, you stated, "Puberty does not end at the age of 16 in the vast majority of cases - I fixed this error with proper sources." I see no reliable sources to support you on that statement. In fact, going by this sourced addition I made, I see sources stating just the opposite. You also added that "boys typically reach sexual maturity on average at the age of 13" and sourced it to the "Spermarche--the age of onset of sperm emission" source. Your text appears to be implying that boys complete puberty at age 13. That is not what sources state.

Yes, sources vary on when puberty begins and ends for boys and girls, but there is still a typical age range given in sources. Yes, more sources have started to cite age 9 for girls regarding the onset of puberty, but age 10 is still the standard because sources base the first sign of puberty for girls on thelarche (breast development), and thelarche is still most commonly defined as beginning at age 10. Like this 2016 "Women’s Gynecologic Health" source, from Jones & Bartlett Learning, page 22, that I used in the article, states, "The changes that occur during puberty usually happen in an ordered sequence, beginning with thelarche (breast development) at around age 10 or 11, followed by adrenarche (growth of pubic hair due to androgen stimulation), peak height velocity, and finally menarche (the onset of menses), which usually occurs around age 12 or 13." So stop adding WP:Synthesis and poor sourcing. If I need to bring others, such as WP:Med, in on this matter, I will. But I am more inclined to report you. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:33, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

on puberty ending age

Flyer22 Reborn , Sorry that I used a sketchy source or two. In future edits I will make sure they are reliable. However, many of the sources I used were reliable. I'm confused as to what you think puberty is? My reliable government source (medline.gov) clearly defines puberty as the process of reaching sexual maturity. Sexual maturity is clearly defined as, by valid sources, the capability of an organism to reproduce. Therefore the process of puberty is over after you can have babies! Of course some growth takes place afterward, but that's not a function of puberty. Bones and hair continue to grow until the mid to late twenties! It seems to me that some of these sources define puberty as something along the lines of "whatever teenagers are going through" and they, without any evidence, claim that "it typically ends around 16 or 17." Some sources may say that, but that source is sadly wrong. Another way of measuring when puberty ends is the Tanner scale. Males reach the last stages of the tanner scale on average at the age of 14. I have many sources for this. Furthermore, Tanner and other researchers found that, yes, puberty is short. It lasts on average 3 years and can take under 2 years to complete. He described puberty as the time when a person has reached G2 on the scale until they reach G5, the adult classification. This typically happened in males between the ages of 11 and 14, and it was earlier in females. Can puberty last until the late teens? Sure, but not usually. The way the statistics work out, any given 15 year old male has a 9/10 chance of having reached G5 on the tanner scale, and a 16 year old male has a 99/100 chance. I think to keep the article as accurate as possible, we should include the proper average ages to reach the last stages on the widely accepted tanner scales but say that in rare cases, puberty can last until 16 or 17. --JMccoy13 (talk) 14:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

JMccoy13, you can clearly see that I responded in the #Puberty material section above. For humans, puberty does not automatically equate to sexual maturity. Puberty encompasses sexual maturity. Like this "Clinical Pediatric and Adolescent Gynecology" source, from CRC Press, page 34, states, "The definition of puberty alone can encompass the process of sexual maturation, but a more expansive approach is to think of puberty in combination with the term adolescence. This differentiation prompts the practitioner to consider the psychological, behavioral, and social changes of the adolescent who is experiencing pubertal development." And puberty usually does not end at age 13. You speak of the Tanner scale, but the Tanner scale is not necessarily a solid indicator of pubertal age ranges and also goes up to age 15 for girls and boys. You might be interested in reading the following 2011 discussion involving me and sexologist James Cantor: Talk:Hebephilia/Archive 1#"Boys begin puberty generally at ages 12-13". You see that Cantor states that "Puberty typically lasts approximately until age 14." But his sources are mostly old and show age ranges of 13–15 for girls and 14 to 16 for boys for the ending aspect. He also stated, "Remember, however, that puberty relates to the age at which the growth spurt starts, not the age at which the growth spurt ends (which happens closer to maturation/adulthood). If a given boy's growth spurt were the last of the maturational process to kick in, then the age of the spurt would mark the end of his puberty even though it would be the beginning of his growth in height. [...] age of maturity also varies between modern/previous times, etc. So, I would hesitate to look too hard for [t]he definition of adult/mature, and instead to interpret each source in terms of the definition most logical to its own context." You can also see that we were clear that sources on pubertal age ranges vary. While I noted the sources that are reporting on girls starting puberty at age 9, Cantor stated, "I think what I am saying is that it is true that puberty can start as early as 9, in the sense that is is not a medical problem when it occurs, but that puberty at age 9 is atypical enough so that I would not use age 9 as an exemplar when trying to describe when puberty typically hits."

You referred to a MedlinePlus source, but even the MedlinePlus "Puberty" source that you included states, "It is a process that usually happens between ages 10 and 14 for girls and ages 12 and 16 for boys. It causes physical changes, and affects boys and girls differently." I stand by my statement that sources usually don't state that puberty only lasts one or two years. year. And most don't state that it only lasts two years. And the MedlinePlus "Puberty and adolescence" source I cited in that discussion with Cantor stated: "In girls, puberty is usually finished by age 17. Any increases in height after this age are uncommon." So, yeah, it's not easy trying to define pubertal age ranges and especially if the sources, like your sources and some or all of Cantor's sources were, are clearly based on American children/teenagers rather than on children and teenagers in general. It seems most of the sources we use on this matter are based on Americans, and on white Americans especially. Since the discussion I had with Cantor, I have seen sources typically giving the ending pubertal age for girls as 14 or 15, but also as 15 to 17. I suppose "15 to 17" is to cover late bloomers and late finishers (those who didn't begin puberty at age 10 or 11). Similar goes for boys, but I haven't seen as many sources stating that boys finish puberty at age 14 or 15. For example, this MedlinePlus "Adolescent development" source states, "Girls may begin to develop breast buds as early as 8 years old. Breasts develop fully between ages 12 and 18. Pubic hair, armpit and leg hair usually begin to grow at about age 9 or 10, and reach adult patterns at about 13 to 14 years. Menarche (the beginning of menstrual periods) typically occurs about 2 years after early breast and pubic hair appear. It may occur as early as age 9, or as late as age 16. The average age of menstruation in the United States is about 12 years. Girls growth spurt peaks around age 11.5 and slows around age 16. Boys may begin to notice that their testicles and scrotum grow as early as age 9. Soon, the penis begins to lengthen. By age 17 or 18, their genitals are usually at their adult size and shape. Boys' growth spurt peaks around age 13 and a half and slows around age 18." It appears a number of sources are including "growth spurt" in their definitions of puberty. Whatever the case, stating "age 10 or 11 for girls, and age 11 or 12 for boys" with regard to when puberty begins and "girls generally complete puberty by ages 15–17, and boys by age 16 or 17" pretty much covers the bases. It at least doesn't make Wikipedia look too out of step with what different sources state. The sources are not stating that completing puberty by ages 16 or 17 is rare; so I can't support us stating that. Furthermore, what is stated in this article is the same thing stated in the Puberty article. And just like with this article, I ask that you don't go changing the age ranges for that article without discussion. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn , sorry this reply has taken a week, I was away from home. It seems that we are just arguing semantics: what the definition of puberty actually is. Cantor seems to agree with me on what the definition of puberty is: the process of developing to sexual maturity. It seems that many of the sources that you cite define puberty as some vague concept equivalent to the time in between the first signs of sexual maturation and reaching the age of social adulthood, whenever that may be. In fact that is precisely what your Clinical Pediatric and Adolescent Gynecology source does: it redefines puberty to mean the same thing as adolescence. The issue I have with this definition of puberty is that puberty should refer to the biological process of becoming a (biological) adult, while adolescence should refer to the social process of becoming a (social/legal) adult. This attempt at making puberty and adolescence synonymous seems dishonest to me, as if the sources were trying to replace biology with the law. I speculate that perhaps it makes those who formed these sources uncomfortable to know that many biological adults are not considered adults but instead adolescents, and that this is their attempt to rectify that inconsistency. However, there could be any number of reasons for a change in the definition of puberty. The fact is that puberty is a biological process and that there is already a name for what they are trying to redefine puberty as: adolescence. This redefinition of puberty would leave us without a word to describe biological sexual maturation, instead leaving us dependent on what the law says as if the law were biology. This disturbs me and is reminiscent of 1984's newspeak. Anyhow, the end of puberty must be marked by a biological event, not a legal coming of age. I have seen that some of your sources name that event as the cessation of bone growth. If this were the marker to end puberty, then puberty would not end until around 25, as that is when all growth of bones including the pelvic and pectoral girdles ceases. However, those same sources turn around and say that puberty ends in the late teens. It seems those sources are therefore nonfactual and perhaps should not be trusted. The other somewhat popular and, by the way, classic biological marker of the end of puberty is reaching sexual maturity, which is widely accepted in the medical community as the 5th tanner stages. Again, these are reached on average at the age of 14 in males and earlier in females. While some still normal people take longer, the majority of people have reached the final tanner stage by the age of 14. Therefore we should say here on wikipedia that "puberty typically ends around the age of 14, but can go on until the age of 15 or 16 in some cases." To put it bluntly, I think most of your sources are just plain wrong and are likely results of cultural stereotypes about teenagers. I'd like to know your thoughts on what I have said here before I edit. Thanks. --JMccoy13 (talk) 00:53, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't see that Cantor agrees with you, entirely at least, since you were claiming that puberty ends at age 13 (although you upped it to 14 for your "14:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)" post above) and were stating things like "the process of puberty is over after you can have babies!" No reliable source states that "puberty is over after you can have babies." An 11-year-old pubertal girl might be able to have a child, but she is still going through puberty. Furthermore, I've noted that the Tanner scale goes up to age 15. And while you added puberty beginning at age 9 for girls, Cantor stated, "I think what I am saying is that it is true that puberty can start as early as 9, in the sense that is is not a medical problem when it occurs, but that puberty at age 9 is atypical enough so that I would not use age 9 as an exemplar when trying to describe when puberty typically hits." And, like I mentioned above, Cantor's own sources went past ages 13 and 14 for the completion of puberty and are mainly old. And your own MedlinePlus source disagrees with you. So do other MedlinePlus sources. I've already made my case with reliable sources, and with how sources can differ on the age ranges, and that we should stick with the age ranges most commonly cited in the literature. Doing that is in line with our WP:Due weight policy, and it's what the article is trying to do now on this matter. And keep in mind that I'm not trying to have the section focused on the U.S. pubertal range. Not to mention that African American girls start puberty earlier than American white girls, on average. You speak of the the marker to end puberty, what sources of mine "name [the marker to end puberty] as the cessation of bone growth"? In any case, just looking on regular Google, Google Books and Google Scholar now, I see no sources stating that boys complete puberty at age 13 or 14. I do see sources stating that boys begin puberty between the ages of 9 and 14, and that a boy not having started puberty by age 14 is delayed puberty.

Even this WebMD source states, "Most guys hit puberty sometime from ages 9-14 -- the average age is 12. Puberty is only late if you’re 14 years old and aren’t showing any signs." And this 2012 "Pediatric Primary Care - E-Book" source, from Elsevier Health Sciences, page 534, states, "Boys normally begin puberty from age 9 to 14 years." So, no, taking everything into account, I don't think we are arguing semantics. I see no reliable sources stating that "puberty typically ends around the age of 14" for both boys and girls; per our WP:Verifiability policy, this is why we cannot add that. Cantor et al.'s hebephilia work is partly supported by focusing on the pubertal age range of 11 to 14, but we can't simply go by Cantor et al.'s hebephilia work, and he even noted in the aforementioned discussion that they settled on an age range specifically for the hebephilia concept. Meanwhile, sources usually give an earlier pubertal beginning age for girls (typically 10, but sometimes 9 or even 8) and a later pubertal ending age for boys (typically past age 14). I agree that "the end of puberty must be marked by a biological event, not a legal coming of age"; I just don't think that most sources are basing puberty on legal age. If they were, they would not be stating that girls complete puberty by ages 14 or 15, or by 15 to 17. As you know, the age of majority for the vast majority of the world is age 18. For the completion of puberty, I would be willing change the article so that it states that puberty commonly ends at age 14 or 15 for girls and at age 16 for boys, but that it may last until age 17 for either gender. But only by using sources that support this text. Do you agree to go with that? If you want other editors to weigh in on this matter so that we can resolve this dispute, I suggest that you leave a message at the WP:Med, WP:Biology and/or WP:Anatomy talk page and link to this discussion, or look to some other means of WP:Dispute resolution. Just don't go adding in your disputed text to the article. WP:Edit warring is not tolerated and can lead to a WP:Block. Also, again, there is no need to ping me to this talk page since I watch this article/talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:22, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Emotional/Cognitive Development This article has a great start talking about several perspectives on what adulthood is, but something that could be added to enrich this article is to talk about emotional and cognitive development throughout adulthood. Jacquierico17 (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2022 (UTC)jacquierico17

What about sexual maturity age rated by the age at which a person becomes fully functional? Do men reach their full sexual maturity at 18, but women not until their 40s? (AltheaCase (talk) 23:59, 21 May 2023 (UTC))

Semi-protected edit requesting on 16 June 2019

24.165.205.42 (talk) 23:24, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Empty request. Clearing. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:27, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Human-centric?

I heard that this article almost exclusively focuses on humans and no other organism. (At least on the biological adulthood part) There’s should an other organisms part tho. 75.137.4.149 (talk) 01:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree. There should be more information about other organisms. It should be titled Human Adult if it is just talking about humans. NDLitster (talk) 20:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Source needed for "historically 21"

I deleted "historically 21" for lack of any citation to support the claim that adulthood has been historically 21. Probably the editor can find some citation to support that claim for USA relative to recent history, but what about in 1776? The colonial era? The Mayans? Pre-colonial Africa? China? What about world history? Middle Ages? Ancient Civilizations? Has modern society artificially prolonged childhood? AltheaCase (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Split recommended

I recommend splitting the article to adult - biology and human adult similar to penis article

--Luhanopi (talk) 09:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)