Talk:Abu Mohammad al-Julani

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• Abu Mohammad al Julani.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:21, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

More info on Julani

Hello, fellow humans. I was wondering if we could get some more hubbub on this article. The new documentary presents a plethora of information on this man, including civil right abuses and his ongoing war with ISIS. Like almost every civil war that breaks out in which there is multiple groups vying for control (not like Red vs Blue war, more like Green vs Violet vs Black vs Yellow kind of war,) there are people who will fight to survive, and Julani is one of them. I would recommend watching On the Ground News for more info if you want to add anything on this article, which documented HTS civil rights abuses and torture in their prisons. Please cite your sources when editing this article. May God be with you in this effort. Amen.
RandomGuyNamedDoug (talk) 04:37, 7 June 2021 (UTC)RandomGuyNamedDoug He was killed on November 1, 2024 in Idlib

English versus Arabic

The description of his early life in the Arabic language is very different from the English version. What is the reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0D:6FC0:98C:9800:A848:FD4E:15B9:AAC4 (talk) 22:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Why are we using his wanted picture from the US Department of Defense? It's old and elaborately chosen to illicit a certain impression.

Topic Avicerros (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I think we should use a photo from one of his public appearances from December 6th to 8th 2024. That makes the most sense, as they are new and high-quality. 91.230.13.164 (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Can you share such photo in a way that can be used on Wikipedia? Wikipedia:Image use policy אית11 (talk) 18:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The impression that he is a terrorist and former member of ISIS? Who is paying you to get it changed? 2A02:C7E:2F6A:2400:B0C3:36F5:EFD7:5917 (talk) 15:15, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

He was never a member of ISIS. The picture is old, low quality and deliberately chosen by the US State for propaganda. It has no business IMO being the front picture. Wiki isn't meant for propagating state propaganda. Avicerros (talk) 04:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Change Name and Picture

This photo from US department of defence is really old and i recommend a new pic such as this one during his meeting with CNN https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/jolani-photo3.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_833,w_1480,c_fill Also Rename His Page to Ahmed al-Shar'a Because Jolani is currently "an old nickname" according to this source https://www.alarabiya.net/arab-and-world/syria/2024/12/05/%D8%B2%D8%B9%D9%8A%D9%85-%D8%AA%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%8A%D8%AA%D8%AE%D9%84%D9%89-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%87%D8%B0%D9%87-%D8%AD%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A- Wiki Lord of War (talk) 09:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Image use policy, read it. אית11 (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

it would be easiest if/when the new government releases an image itself. that tends to be in the public domain. Cononsense (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Why use an image that doesn't represent him for the last decade? there must be a legal one out there. --Inayity (talk) 15:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Transliteration of name

Hi. Whilst I was doing an out of interest search after reading the news, I corrected a double redirect of Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani to here. Then reading the name, I note in the heading that the "nom de guerre" is spelled "al-Julani". When you click on the note though, at the bottom it suggest the transliteration should be "Abū Muḥammad al-Jawlānī". How did we end up with al-Julani in the heading, when the apparent transliteration should be the better one to put at the top? - Master Of Ninja (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

iam native arabic speaker, Julani is true While Jawlani is nonsense

arabs call Golan Heights : Julan(Gulan in some areas such as lower egypt) Wiki Lord of War (talk) 11:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying. When you look at BBC News it is spelled "Jawlani", and the other wikipedia pages about the mountain and even in this article have it transliterated at "Jawlani". It's good to get clarity on this. - Master Of Ninja (talk) 20:12, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Consensus on photo

Backgrounder: as can be found on the Wikipedia:Image use policy, the Wikipedia community decided years ago that all images must be in the public domain or freely reusable and remixable by commercial entities. Very few exceptions to the policy exist and none seem relevant. It's not within my (or anyone else's) power to immediately change the policy.

File:Julani.png and File:Muhammad al-Jawlani.png are facing imminent deletion on Wikimedia Commons as copyright violations. The only image that we have that aligns with the aforementioned policy is File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg, which is from the subject's younger days and depicts him without a beard. That leaves us with three options to move forward.

Option 1: Remove all images from the page

Option 2: Use File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg as the infobox photo with adequate captioning and context

Option 3: Use File:Mugshot of Abu Mohammad al-Jolani.jpg in the body

Use this thread to discuss options. Bremps... 23:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I vote for option #3, until we have a proper infobox photo. 2A01:5A8:47B:DE6A:BDAC:508E:B546:EB8D (talk) 10:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

What about File:Ahmed al-Sharaa (Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani).jpg? – Anwon (talk) 14:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

How about we use this image of Al-Jolani/Al-Sharaa? It's from January 2023 - https://levant24.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Jolani-e1672678917203.jpg Mage0023 (talk) 23:19, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

We can't use any image outside of Wikimedia Commons as the image you linked isn't freely licensed. – Anwon (talk) 09:44, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Option 3, the 20-year-old mugshot is practically misleading at this point and looks nothing like his current appearance. No requirement that this article have a photo in the infobox. —Ganesha811 (talk) 04:30, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

"His group has established an administration in its controlled territory, collecting taxes, providing public services, and issuing identity cards to residents."

Don't forget to mention that there is free pizza on Inclusion Fridays.

Talk about whitewashing a Takfiri terrorist. Post-truth beyond imagination. 201.195.126.136 (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"His Excellency"

What's up with this? Did he already become the president of Syria? Source? He rather seems like a kingmaker for now. Beshogur (talk) 19:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Which romanization is used for Arabic transcription into the latin script?

It's not explicitly mentioned anywhere and there are tons of different versions. Does anyone have information on this? 91.230.13.164 (talk) 20:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2024

In the section Resurgence of al-Nusra, add a space after Al-Jazera. Currently says "Al-Julani told al-Jazeerain 2015" JodaDoesMusicAndStuff (talk) 20:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's fixed, thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Fix the Formatting?

When entering this page, I noticed that Shar'a/Julani's wikibox seems to have been formatted incorrectly. I presume this'll be amended soon enough, but it would still be best to raise it as an issue to be fixed. Walpole2019 (talk) 20:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Julani is merely the HTS leader

Let us not get ahead of ourselves. The designation of Jolani as "de facto leader of Syria" is, at the very least, debatable. The only institutional, executive authority in Syria at the moment (and even with some doubts) is Muhammad al-Bashir, the designated PM, until now PM of the rebel, HTS-supported and Idlib-based Syrian Salvation Government.--Zarateman (talk) 10:37, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

However, some RS has called him this. Besides, isn't a de facto leader kinda by definition separate from a transitional de jure leader like al-Bashir

[1]https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/09/politics/who-is-the-leader-of-syrias-rebels-and-what-does-he-want/index.html

[2]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/syria-new-leader-two-identities-ahmed-al-sharaa-abu-mohammed-al-jolani Cononsense (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

add Template

Can Template:Authority control be added to the article?   Mohammed Qays  (🗣) 11:24, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Rewards for Justice deadlink and new link

Gentlemen, the reference numbered 15 which contains a link to the U.S. State Department's Rewards for Justice website is dead the new link is here, or you can find it using their search engine https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/muhammad-al-jawlani/ 130.74.58.96 (talk) 12:08, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

It looks archived now, thanks for pointing it out though Bremps... 19:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 12 December 2024

Abu Mohammad al-Julani → Ahmed al-Sharaa – He no longer uses his nom de guerre and thus a large number of RS are switching to primarily using his real name. A move to his real name also avoids having to make a choice between Jolani/Julani/Golani/Jawlani. Some of the news organisations which use his real name: Reuters, Al Jazeera, The Guardian Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 09:24, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Sources are now switching up to using "Ahmed al-Sharaa" instead of "Abu Mohammad al-Julani". Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 11:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Wait. It's too early to say anything conclusive on the matter. The person might continue to be called with the nickname, and currently not all sources are making a switch. (the Guardian for example, the linked article just stated that the person in question has been using their real name on official papers for a while. Live blogs and news still use Jolani.) ahmetlii ^✉ _{(Please ping me on a reply!)} 11:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--فيصل (talk) 13:52, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Do Not Support he is more widely known as Jolani. --Inayity (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - his pseudonym is more known than his real name. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 17:48, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose At this point al-Julani is what he is widely referred to in reliable media and sources. --Drako (talk) 19:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, he himself is called Ahmed al-Sharaa and relinquiches his nom de guerre. Media is also calling him Ahmed al-Sharaa more often. DerEchteJoan (talk) 20:15, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support Various sources are referring to him by his actual name.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/11/syrias-al-sharaa-promises-to-punish-those-who-tortured-killed-detainees

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/middleeast/syria-hts-al-jolani-profile-intl/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/10/syria-new-leader-two-identities-ahmed-al-sharaa-abu-mohammed-al-jolani

Even Syrian State TV referred to him by his actual name after Anti-Government militants took over state TV. Mage0023 (talk) 21:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. The common name is still Abu Mohammad al-Julani. Khiikiat (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Also what the fuck did you do to his picture used the most ugly photo when hundreds others are possible Yesyesmrcool (talk) 00:32, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support he signs official statements as al-Sharaa. Also, what on earth is that photo, he looks like a twelve-year-old. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  The photo taken almost 20 years ago is when he was captured by the US. This is the only picture of him currently permitted on Wikipedia, so it's on there. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 03:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  I think no photo is better honestly, or the one that was on here previously to 6 December. The current image is actively misleading about his appearance This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 05:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose because Jolani is still his common name. Also find my guy a better pic with his bread Abo Yemen✉ 07:15, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  Support per Hujjat al-Umari Abo Yemen✉ 18:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose currently till he gets an official post and the govt announce his official name. There are possibility of him getting post like Supreme leader. Therealbey (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  Comment not that it's relevant to the RM but I don't think there's any evidence of him getting a post in the new transitional government? He's still HTS military leader. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 09:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

  not in this transitional govt but in future as he is now most powerful person in Syria. There is a possibility he can become supreme leader of Syria and if that happens then govt of Syria at that time will announce and also Oppose because of WP:COMMONNAME Therealbey (talk) 17:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support agree with nomVeritasphere (talk) 14:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: al-Julani, Jolani is still his common name and this is available in most of the sources. Acratopotes (talk) 15:38, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support, because it's his actual name, save his military activity.--Noel baran (talk) 15:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support no longer using his name. Media starting to refer with his name. Beshogur (talk) 16:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: He is nearly always referred to as al-Julani, so per WP:COMMONNAME.. yea ~eticangaaa (talk) 16:52, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support, for same reasons as nomination Epicradman123 (talk) 18:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: Sources are rapidly changing in using "Ahmed al-Sharaa" now instead of his former nom de guerre. Here is a list of well-known sources that have switched to using "Ahmed al-Sharaa"

• The Guardian: "Sharaa, formerly known as Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, said in a statement.."
• ABC News: "“We will go after them in our country,” said HTS leader Ahmad al-Sharaa, who was previously known as Abu Mohammed al-Golani."
• Euronews: "Ahmad al-Sharaa, who was previously known as Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, encouraged Syrians..."
• Washington Post: "“We will go after them in our country,” said HTS leader Ahmad al-Sharaa, who was previously known as Abu Mohammed al-Golani."
• NPR: "Ahmed al-Shara – formerly known by his nom de guerre, Abu Mohmmad al-Jolani
• Bahrain state news: "King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa, the Current President of the Arab Summit, sent a message to Ahmad Al Sharaa"
• The Times of Israel: "The Kingdom of Bahrain sends a message to Ahmad al-Sharaa, formerly known as Abu Mohammed al-Golani"
• The Syrian Observer: "Ahmed Al-Sharaa, previously known as Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, leads the opposition factions' military..

I could go on to list hundreds if not thousands of sources like that, although I think it's sufficient for now. It's time for Wikipedia to change the name as well, following the precedent of sources. Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 17:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 December 2024

ISI was separate from Al-Qadea DayofGrasp (talk) 04:36, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please specify which sentence it is. 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 06:03, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we remove or replace al-Julani's Picture since it's so outdated?

al-Julani's picture in the infobox is 18 years old, and since there is no more authorized pictures of him on wikipedia, (there is one more but its at risk of being deleted) should we just remove it? 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 05:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

SUPPORT - the image is from literally 2006. He does not look the same AT ALL today. איתן קרסנטי (talk) 11:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

YES! Not only is this picture significantly outdated, it’s also just ugly, though that’s not really a reason to remove it inherently Natalieeeeeee (talk) 18:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Probably a troll added it. 2A02:3030:A66:46CB:F77:C694:17BB:6D9F (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Personally I dont believe that a 'troll' added it but ok 🗽Freedoxm🗽 (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. It's probably the only photo anyone will ever come up with where one can see his features. Later he largely disappeared behind a jihadi beard, which works like a mask. He has a strong expression on it, it's far from bad or "ugly"; and 'pretty' is not a criterion for a jihadist commander, or has everything turned upside down? Arminden (talk) 19:13, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

“Jihadi beard” im pretty sure it’s just a normal, if not American normal but middle eastern normal styling for a beard. Wikipedia is used as a reference source. We should then refer to what someone looks like in the modern day, not almost 2 decades ago Natalieeeeeee (talk) 19:17, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Recent edit

Hi,

Hujjat al-Umari, could you revert your most recent edit that removed the World Weekly ref?

Though the link is dead, the archived link still works.

Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 08:12, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I have reverted my edit. Regards, Hujjat al-Umari (talk) 08:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)