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Talk:Jewish land purchase in Palestine

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Afbach (talk | contribs) at 16:41, 26 September 2017 (Added question about missing word "not"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Poor Sources

A lot of this article is based on sources of very poor quality. Mitchell Bard for example, the editor of Myths & Facts, is a well-known propagandist and the article being cited is obviously a polemic. Also Dershowitz cannot be trusted to accurately report what Benny Morris wrote. Morris' work is easily available; what's wrong with quoting it directly? If you want a quality source for the Zionist viewpoint, you can use Kenneth Stein's book. Zerotalk 10:01, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And, indeed, a quick look at Morris' book "Righteous Victims", page 110, shows that Morris' opinion is nothing at all like Dershowitz claims (I apologise to Dershowitz if in fact the problem is that his book is not correctly cited here). Zerotalk 10:29, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And for proof of the unreliability of Mitchell Bard, consider this copy-paste from his article: "...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]...". Here is what the Peel Commission report (p233) actually said: "In the villages on both sides of the track and as far as the hills to the east no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached Yabna Village." The claim that it was a Jewish village is Bard's and it is nonsense. In fact it was an Arab village, and no Jewish village was there until much later, see Yavne. Zerotalk 13:10, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to see that someone else besides me noticed the unreliable sources, half of them are from the Jewish virtual library which is an advocacy site and pro-Israeli, Israel-centric and Jewish-centric. And as you have proven above, a site that straight out lies. Nsaum75 shouldn't be wikistalking me and undoing all my edits but take a look at the sources instead. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's no wikistalking, as I already had those pages in watch list. Please be more careful before making false accusations. --nsaum75¡שיחת!‎ 23:08, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish land ownership prohibited until turn of 19th-cent

How odd. There is no mention here that for centuries, Jews were forbidden by the Turks from owning land in their own homeland. Chesdovi (talk) 15:18, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In the first half of the 19th century, no foreigners were allowed to purchase land. This was official until 1856 and in practice until 1867. (ref is Kark, JHG 10(1984)357-384; I will bring details later). Zerotalk 04:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Moses Montefiore purchased land in 1855 outside the Jerusalem old city walls. Was this an exception? He also is reported to have purchased the grounds at the Tomb of Rachel in 1841? Chesdovi (talk) 17:31, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Mitchell Bard's unreliable polemic has to go. There are plenty of reliable sources on these subjects. See my example above about Yavne for one proof, another is the completely ridiculous assertion that 37% of the Arab population growth was due to immigration. Besides that, the tone is one of a sort of hysterical polemic. Zerotalk 23:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just because a source disagrees with your opinions doesn't mean you can brand it "fringe." I'll admit the language could be phrased better. But pointing out errors in the Jewish Virtual Library doesn't diminish it's cultural signifigance. I'll tone down the language to be less "polemic," but the source and sentiment are valid. Modinyr (talk) 22:08, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mitchell Bard and the things he writes at Jewish Virtual Library are not reliable sources. Some of the things on that site are as they are copies of other sources, but the original content is not. Much of it is sourced to Wikipedia articles and other poor quality sources. Find a better source if you want to include this material. nableezy - 22:42, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what you think is true or not. The Jewish Virtual Library is a prominent and often-quoted part of the Internet. It is a reflection of many people's views. These views might not be something you like, but they are still relevant and reliable if properly cited.

Zero claims that the way the source is cited is "polemic." Agreed. But the source, if it is used to represent people's beliefs, is a good fit for the article. Remember sources don't prove facts, just verify opinions. Modinyr (talk) 04:08, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted Mitchell Bard's useless polemic. Much of the nonsense derived from it has to go as well, but that takes more time. Zerotalk 01:36, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Topic of this article

While reading this article, i was very confused - is this article dealing with the Jewish land purchase obligation in the Land of Israel (religious custom) or the historic process of land purchases in Ottoman Syria and later in Mandatory Palestine (Eretz Yisrael)? There is also an extreme propaganda tone sounding from the text, looking like copy-paste has widely been done from Palestinian propaganda sources (Palestine remembered, etc.). So it is about the religious duty? Is it more of an historic overview on Ottoman and British period?GreyShark (dibra) 07:26, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be about the history of actual land purchases, though the reasons for those purchases and the reasons for opposition to them can't really be excluded. Your comments about sources are quite wrong since PalestineRemembered is used only as a WP:Convenience link for mainstream British documents. That is a perfectly valid use that does not make the cited material dubious. Actually the source on balance are either factual (the British documents) or pro-Zionist (Porath, Avneri, etc). Zerotalk 09:01, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The religious obligation is certainly for land purchases in the Land of Israel (including Golan, Transjordan, etc.), while historic purchases were correctly speaking in Ottoman Syria and Mandatory Palestine. The current title "Jewish land purchase in Palestine" thus is implying of the land sales issues in the State of Palestine (PNA) - a very delicate issue by the law of the State of Palestine. So a rename in any case is a must.GreyShark (dibra) 11:51, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree that Palestine here implies State of Palestine, and similarly with lots of other articles that use the common English name for the region. Zerotalk 13:09, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Missing "not"

The lines: In the 1930s most land was bought from small landowners. Of the land that the Jews bought, "52.6% of the lands were bought from big non-Palestinian landowners, 24.6% from Palestinian-Arab landowners and only 9.4% from the Fellahin".[10]

Seems, as only 9.4% were bought from small farmers, the first line should read: In the 1930s most land was not bought from small landowners.

Afbach (talk)

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