Talk:Rehavam Ze'evi

Untitled

I don't know who had posted the previous version; it was way over NPOV, and down into name-calling. If anyone wants to speak against Zeevi - let him do so. But write to the point, and don't forget that he did good things too. --Uriyan

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Speaking of Molodet's policy as "voluntary transfer" is just repeating the party propaganda. Of course everyone knows that this "transfer" would not be voluntary for the great majority of its victims. --- zero

Forced transfer

Zeevi said different things at different times. He suggested that life should be made sufficiently unpleasant for Israeli Arabs that they "voluntarily" transferred to Arab nations. This is a bit like suggesting that Tutsis "voluntarily" transferred to Congo in Rwanda's civil war. What on earth would "transfer" be if it was not forced? The word "transfer" is a nudge-nudge wink-wink word used by Zionists for what we would otherwise call "ethnic cleansing". Dr Zen 04:08, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As for Palestinian Arabs vs. Israeli Arabs, yes, I am 100% confident about this. In fact he made a point about it, always stressing that the basis for transfer was citizenship and not ethnic (this is also why I removed the term "ethnic cleansing" from the article). You really have to understand that in Zeevi's generation racism was a total taboo. Zeevi would never have anyone accuse him of racism. He probably — ironic as it might sound — considered himself non-racist in full hounesty.

Okay. I don't think you can put that as the Moledet platform though, because Elon clearly wants to see the "exchange" continue, and like many ultra-Zionists, points to the Greece/Turkey solution.Dr Zen 04:56, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As for the voluntary vs. forced transfer, the ambiguity (i.e. talking about voluntary transfer while making sure the listner understands forced transfer is also an option) was intentional and part of the game, so I think it would be more honest to lay it out for the reader in details, as I did. I think that the current text states quite clearly that he supported forced transfer and made it known, but if you think an additional clarfication is in place, do so. Uffish 04:42, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think the article should simply say that he supported forced transfer. We report the facts. If you want to add that he made out that any transfer would be voluntary, you're welcome, but simply removing the word "forced" won't do.Dr Zen 04:56, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Here's the Elon plan. Look at it carefully. It clearly calls for the "exchange" that was happening up to 1948 to continue. Dr Zen 04:56, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I can only assume from your referencing of the Elon Peace Plan that we have a semantic dispute — obviously you mean "forced" in a different sense than I do. The Elon Peace Plan clearly calls for voluntary transfer. Here are a few quotes: "...will be decided in an agreement between the governments of Israel and Jordan (Palestine)"; "Israel and Jordan-Palestine will declare the conflict terminated"; "Those new Jordanian citizens who choose not to accept the invitation to move away, would be welcome to remain in Israel as permanent resident foreign nationals..." etc. Similarly, the Moledet platform never mentioned forced transfer — this was only hinted at via Zeevi's "blunders". In short, the text as you left it is just plain false. Just to see how important this point is to a typical reader, see this quote [1]. So, this leaves two options: either remove the word forced from the paragraph (I'm going to do this), I think that the latter paragraph is sufficiently clear. Alternatively, explain exactly what you mean by "forced". Uffish 16:34, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Nickname

I have no idea where the story about the purim party came from, but i cannot find any corroboration for it. All the hebrew websites I looked at gave the source of the nickname as a an incident in the Givat HaShlosha food hall, so I have replaced that section.

On a different note entirely, I am very uneasy about the section on famous Jews who were assainated. It really isn't relevant to the article. I haven't destroyed the section because I wanted to hear from others, but it really ought to be moved.

195.137.102.61 22:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC) Avi

only voluntary transfer

having affrimed this personally time and again, it can't be more clear than Gandhi (Zeevi) only wanted voluntary transfer. He said so many times on every media possible and in the official party of his (it was usually a one man party in essence, so that sentence about other moldete members doesn't make sense) that it can't be more than the truth. I also studied him for years and never heard this jordan theory. I think people are inventing lies here. so let's stick to the truth. Amoruso 03:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

the article right now is complete B.S and bias against Gandhi. All this ethnic expulsion shit should and will be removed. He never said wanted things this way, know so from knowing him personally and reading many books about the situation. Amoruso 23:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Please review WP:V: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth". Unfortunately, your claim of knowing him personally, and what he may have said to you, is not verifiable. The controversy section on the other hand is well cited (there are may other sources too). Do post if you believe you have information per WP:RS saying otherwise and I'll be happy to discuss it. -- Steve Hart 00:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I will indeed provide the sources to refute all the crazy allegations here in due time. It's not about knowing him personally, that's not even needed in this case. It's about living on Planet Earth or in this case Israel. Citing some reporter's delirium stands to nothing. You have to realise that with people like Gandhi, it's not as if there were obscure reports from time to time on his thoughts. Zeevi was on the political shows and news all the time, constantly... and his views are very well known. Citing selective anti semite remarks is misleading , baffling, and also "violent" . Amoruso 13:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, please review WP:V. In an earlier edit, prior to my involvement, you said: "if you're going to make such wild accusations, you need to put citations....". So I did. I cited CNN, The Guardian, AP and CSM. I could also cite BBC, Washington Post, and others. Read his obituaries. The section is properly cited; neither is it "selective citing". (You should also take a moment to review the previous discussion here). I'll revert your edits and I ask you to post your claims and sources here first. -- Steve Hart 16:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

On a second review of your edits: note that the page does not cite allegations against Zeevi (though I'm sure there are many of those). Citations are sources reporting on statements he made. Please take that into account in your reply. -- Steve Hart 16:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I looked into the sources and none have Gandhi saying that he advocated ethnic cleansing... in fact, the guardian actually says he adovcated transfer by agreement. moreover, there's no direct quote of the context of the lice quote. I think it's very misleading. This is why I took a liberty in writing two sentences about beni elon and gandhi's comments over the policy, to balance it a little. Because i do think that focusing on one sentence he might or might not have said in 40 years on a radio station is a bit unfair and not WP:CITE standard . I hope it's ok. G'day. Amoruso 19:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Funeral section

Removed from the article and pasted below. There's hardly any encyclopedic information here, needs a rewrite and sources: -- Steve Hart 16:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

"In his funeral took part thousands of citizens and friends. Even though he was politically controvesial, he was known for his integrity, his dedication for Israel, and his many friends from all parties. One of אthe eulogies was done by Mati Peled who is regarded as an extreme leftist activist. Zeevi was also known for his concern for Israel's captured or missing soldiers which is the reason he always wore a military identity disc with their names on his neck. [2]"

the encylopedic value is huge, both the big funeral that happened, secondly the disk on his neck for which he was famous for, and son. the source is Israel's biggest newspaper. Amoruso 19:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following paragraph:

Ze'evi himself often explained, since 1987 when he first announced the transfer plan and onwards, that he only intended to promote voluntary transfer of the Arab population in the West Bank, not forced actions. Ze'evi believed that this was the only way to promote peace with the Arab nations and to spare further bloodshed. He proposed to provide money incentives for the Palestinians to leave.

The reference to Yedioth Ahronoth (http://www.ynet.co.il/home/0,7340,L-1410,00.html) is to an obituary. I could not find any mention of any of the claims in the paragraph in it (as would be expected in an obituary). Uffish (talk) 05:57, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Update?

Uri Avnery, 'The Other Gandhi,' Gush Shalom 21 April 2016 This is a useful English summary of revelations in the Hebrew press about many aspects of Ze'evi's life missing from this article. Nishidani (talk) 20:34, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew is not needed, see Haaretz in English. Of course the main points need including. Zero^talk 23:29, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Questioning of assassination details RE 'On this Day' feature

In the Wikipedia main page 'On this Day'(dated 17/10/2016) referring to his death in 2001, it claims Ze'evi was the first Israeli minister assassinated in a terrorist attack; having recalled Yhitzak Rabin was also assassinated, I looked him up as well. Rabin's assassination was committed by a lone gunman, opposed to the Oslo peace accords, yet could this not also be described as as "terrorist" incident? Does the Wikipedia definition of terrorism not include "lone gunman"-type assassinations? Noble Korhedron 22:12, 17 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noble Korhedron (talk • contribs)

Ehud olmert

Obviously he's notable for being a future prime minister but it's worth mentioning what a person was at the time of the events, in this case a Likud MK (member of Knesset).--Nngnna (talk) 13:27, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 May 2021

citation [29] needs to swapped with an archive link

current: http://articles.philly.com/1993-12-31/news/25940346_1_israeli-army-jewish-soldier-israeli-jews

suggested: https://web.archive.org/web/20140106031558/http://articles.philly.com/1993-12-31/news/25940346_1_israeli-army-jewish-soldier-israeli-jews 2603:6010:6D45:8A00:C00:C367:BF80:AC29 (talk) 14:45, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

 Done Run n Fly (talk) 14:53, 16 May 2021 (UTC)