User talk:Paper9oll/Archive 12

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The "recent edits" time period for page watchers is now 30 days. It used to be 180 days. This was a Community Wishlist Survey proposal. [1]

Changes later this week

An improved impact module will be available at Wikipedias. The impact module is a feature available to newcomers at their personal homepage. It will show their number of edits, how many readers their edited pages have, how many thanks they have received and similar things. It is also accessible by accessing Special:Impact. [2]
The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 23 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 24 May. It will be on all wikis from 25 May (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:53, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-22

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Citations can once again be added automatically from ISBNs, thanks to Zotero's ISBN searches. The current data sources are the Library of Congress (United States), the Bibliothèque nationale de France (French National Library), and K10plus ISBN (German repository). Additional data source searches can be proposed to Zotero. The ISBN labels in the VisualEditor Automatic tab will reappear later this week. [3]
The page Special:EditWatchlist now has "Check all" options to select all the pages within a namespace. This feature request was voted #161 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey. [4]

Problems

For a few days earlier this month, the "Add interlanguage link" item in the Tools menu did not work properly. This has now been fixed. [5]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 30 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 31 May. It will be on all wikis from 1 June (calendar).
VisualEditor will be switched to a new backend on small and medium wikis this week. Large wikis will follow in the coming weeks. This is part of the effort to move Parsoid into MediaWiki core. The change should have no noticeable effect on users, but if you experience any slow loading or other strangeness when using VisualEditor, please report it on the phabricator ticket linked here. [6]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 22:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 5 June 2023

News and notes: WMRU director forks new 'pedia, birds flap in top '22 piccy, WMF weighs in on Indian gov's map axe plea

In the media: Section 230 stands tall, WP vs. UK bill, Miss Information dissed again

Featured content: Poetry under pressure

Traffic report: Celebs, controversies and a chatbot in the public eye

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2023).

Administrator changes

Ingenuity

CheckUser changes

Courcelles

Guideline and policy news

Following an RfC, editors indefinitely site-banned by community consensus will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's IP Masking project, a new policy has been created that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An associated FAQ has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.

Technical news

Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of IP masking. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until at least October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Wikipedia until some time in 2024.

Arbitration

The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.

Miscellaneous

Following a community referendum, the arbitration policy has been modified to remove the ability for users to appeal remedies to Jimbo Wales.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-23

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The RealMe extension allows you to mark URLs on your user page as verified for Mastodon and similar software.
Citation and footnote editing can now be started from the reference list when using the visual editor. This feature request was voted #2 in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey. [7]
Previously, clicking on someone else's link to Recent Changes with filters applied within the URL could unintentionally change your preference for "Group results by page". This has now been fixed. [8]

Problems

For a few days last week, some tools and bots returned outdated information due to database replication problems, and may have been down entirely while it was being fixed. These issues have now been fixed. [9]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 6 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 7 June. It will be on all wikis from 8 June (calendar).
Bots will no longer be prevented from making edits because of URLs that match the spam blacklist. [10]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 22:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey

Hello there, can I ask you a question? GiveMeMyPay (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@GiveMeMyPay Hi, do you have any queries? — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:28, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

How can I use the image in this link in En Wiki?

https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosya:Çayelispor.png GiveMeMyPay (talk) 13:32, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll And how should I do it? GiveMeMyPay (talk) 13:33, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@GiveMeMyPay You can't use that image on English Wikipedia without uploading it here as WP:NONFREE image, however you can't use WP:NONFREE image in draftspace in which Draft:Çayelispor is currenly under, hence wait till it's published into mainspace before proceeding with the below otherwise you risk getting copyright violation warnings and/or risk getting the image deleted.

Once the article is in mainspace (basically no longer having "Draft:" in front of the article name). You can do so by going to WP:FUW > Upload a non-free file > browse and upload the image in "Step 1: Choose your file" > enter the relevant filename and description in "Step 2: Describe your file" > select "This is a copyrighted, non-free work, but I believe it is Fair Use" in "Step 3: Provide source and copyright information" > enter the article name in the input box under "This file will be used in the following article:" > select " This is a logo of an organization, company, brand, etc." > enter the source (you can use back the same source as listed on tr:Dosya:Çayelispor.png) > tick "This image will be shown as a primary means of visual identification at the top of the article dedicated to the entity in question." > enter "N/A" without quotes under "In view of this, please explain how the use of this file will be minimal." > click Upload. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll I need to wait for the draft to be published, I see. Thank you so much! GiveMeMyPay (talk) 13:54, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-24

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The content attribution tools Who Wrote That?, XTools Authorship, and XTools Blame now support the Dutch, German, Hungarian, Indonesian, Japanese, Polish and Portuguese Wikipedias. This was the #7 wish in the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey. [11]
The Search Preview panel has been deployed on four Wikipedias (Catalan, Dutch, Hungarian and Norwegian). The panel will show an image related to the article (if existing), the top sections of the article, related images (coming from MediaSearch on Commons), and eventually the sister projects associated with the article. [12]
The RealMe extension now allows administrators to verify URLs for any page, for Mastodon and similar software. [13]
The default project license has been officially upgraded to CC BY-SA 4.0. The software interface messages have been updated. Communities should feel free to start updating any mentions of the old CC BY-SA 3.0 licensing within policies and related documentation pages. [14]

Problems

For three days last month, some Wikipedia pages edited with VisualEditor or DiscussionTools had an unintended __TOC__ (or its localized form) added during an edit. There is a listing of affected pages sorted by wiki, that may still need to be fixed. [15]
Currently, the "Sort this page by default as" feature in VisualEditor is broken. Existing {{DEFAULTSORT:...}} keywords incorrectly appear as missing templates in VisualEditor. Developers are exploring how to fix this. In the meantime, those wishing to edit the default sortkey of a page are advised to switch to source editing. [16]
Last week, an update to the delete form may have broken some gadgets or user scripts. If you need to manipulate (empty) the reason field, replace #wpReason with #wpReason > input. See an example fix. [17]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 13 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 14 June. It will be on all wikis from 15 June (calendar).
VisualEditor will be switched to a new backend on English Wikipedia on Monday, and all other large wikis on Thursday. The change should have no noticeable effect on users, but if you experience any slow loading or other strangeness when using VisualEditor, please report it on the phabricator ticket linked here. [18]

Future changes

From 5 June to 17 July, the Foundation's Security team is holding a consultation with contributors regarding a draft policy to govern the use of third-party resources in volunteer-developed gadgets and scripts. Feedback and suggestions are warmly welcome at Third-party resources policy on meta-wiki.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 14:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

ANI notice where I mentioned of your edits

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User @Lightlylove keeps harassing me. Thank you. I mentioned one of your reversions in relation to a discussion of another editor. Nil Einne (talk) 05:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Nil Einne Noted, thanks for the notification. I will not get involved at this time of point unless necessary, however will continue to monitor the thread till closing and/or archiving, whichever is earlier. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 June 2023

News and notes: WMF Terms of Use now in force, new Creative Commons licensing

In the media: English WP editor glocked after BLP row on Italian 'pedia

Featured content: Content, featured

Recent research: Hoaxers prefer currently-popular topics

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:10, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-25

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Flame graphs are now available in WikimediaDebug. [19][20]

Changes later this week

There is no new MediaWiki version this week.
There is now a toolbar search popup in the visual editor. You can trigger it by typing \ or pressing ctrl + shift + p. It can help you quickly access most tools in the editor. [21][22]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 20:07, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Re: Byun Yo-han

Hello? Sorry, why did you revise back my edits on Film section, Drama and Awards, I put the source tho, can't you read the contents (in Korean language) in the articles I put??? Miselliang (talk) 06:04, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Miselliang I put the source tho, well not for all. I've restore back the constructive portion i.e. the sourced ones excluding factual errors. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:14, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

thank you. but you stil havent restore the awards edit. Asia Model Festival and Asia Model Awards share similar name and Byun Yohan won the same category, but they are different event. Miselliang (talk) 06:27, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Miselliang That's the factual errors, I'm referring to btw. Asia Model Festival is the event in which other ceremonies such as Asia Model Awards, Face of Asia, and Asia Open Collection, is part of. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Can you read the article? Asia Model Festival in 2022 was the 17th and Asia Model Awards was the 8th and held in Busan. you can read it in references I put before

https://n.news.naver.com/entertain/article/144/0000883846

AMF and AMA were different event and Byun Yohan got 2 different awards although the title have the same name. Miselliang (talk) 06:39, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Miselliang I already read it, you should be the one to go and re-read again. And also refer to this source in particular the poster and of course also the article content. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:40, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

"이렇듯, 눈을 뗄 수 없는 열연으로 쏟아지는 호평을 받았던 변요한은 앞서 ‘제17회 아시아모델페스티벌’ 연기자부문 아시아스타상부터 ‘제8회 아시아스타어워즈’ 아시아스타상" you can check on korean wikipedia https://ko.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EB%B3%80%EC%9A%94%ED%95%9C Miselliang (talk) 06:49, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Miselliang Nvrmind, it seem like you and I are not speaking on the same topic. I have went ahead to update the article with the correct factual contents, however I would like to correct you that the "8th Asia Star Awards (제8회 아시아스타어워즈)" you were referring to is "Marie Claire Asia Star Awards" which is of course is a different event but clearly, explictly, and certainly NOT called "Asia Model Awards" nor is "Asia Star Awards" part of "Asia Model Festival 2022", neither is "Asia Model Awards" and "Asia Model Festival", two different ceremonies, you can refer to the introduction at Asia Model Festial official website instead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:57, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I actually meant, Marie Claire Asia Stars Awards. Ok, then I will type its name completely as Busan International Film Festival with Marie Claire Asia Stars Awards (not translating its short name in korean language). I hope it wont be taken down again. Thank you for your time. Miselliang (talk) 08:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

@Miselliang Busan International Film Festival (BIFF) is a separated award ceremony btw. And while MCASA it's hosted by Marie Claire Korea and BIFF, it is not to be confused with BIFF's own-hosted award ceremony which in 2022 is called 27th Busan International Film Festival. The official naming for MCASA is simply "Marie Claire Asia Star Awards" while marketed (which shouldn't be included as per English Wikipedia's guidelines and policies) as "BIFF with Marie Claire Asia Star Awards" in promotional materials. In addition, you also don't find the relation in BIFF official website. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:05, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

I got it. Thank you for the long explanation. Really appreciate it. And thank you for adding it in BYH page. Seems I need to learn more editing guidelines before publish the edit. Once again thank you! Miselliang (talk) 11:09, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-26

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The Action API modules and Special:LinkSearch will now add a trailing / to all prop=extlinks responses for bare domains. This is part of the work to remove duplication in the externallinks database table. [23]

Problems

Last week, search was broken on Commons and Wikidata for 23 hours. [24][25]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 27 June. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 28 June. It will be on all wikis from 29 June (calendar).
The Minerva skin now applies more predefined styles to the .mbox-text CSS class. This enables support for mbox templates that use divs instead of tables. Please make sure that the new styles won't affect other templates in your wiki. [26][27]
Gadgets will now load on both desktop and mobile by default. Previously, gadgets loaded only on desktop by default. Changing this default using the |targets= parameter is also deprecated and should not be used. You should make gadgets work on mobile or disable them based on the skin (with the |skins= parameter in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition) rather than whether the user uses the mobile or the desktop website. Popular gadgets that create errors on mobile will be disabled by developers on the Minerva skin as a temporary solution. [28]
All namespace tabs now have the same browser access key by default. Previously, custom and extension-defined namespaces would have to have their access keys set manually on-wiki, but that is no longer necessary. [29]
The review form of the Flagged Revisions extension now uses the standardized user interface components. [30]

Future changes

How media is structured in the parser's HTML output will change in the coming weeks at group2 wikis. This change improves the accessibility of content. You may need to update your site-CSS, or userscripts and gadgets. There are details on what code to check, how to update the code, and where to report any related problems. [31]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 16:17, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Re: Blockberry Creative

Hi, I've noticed you reverted my recent edit on Blockberry Creative, saying there was no reliable source. I thought the souce I've added was reliable, could you tell me why it was not accepted? Muslii4 (talk) 13:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Muslii4, well you didn't provide any reliable source for Sunye leaving the agency hence isn't it obvious enough? Moving sourcing around IS NOT adding a reliable source. In addition, neither is moving the sourcing of Loona departure to the lead unnecessary per MOS:REFLEAD when it's already sourced in the body. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:18, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I see, I should not have moved that other source, but I did add a reference to a naver article about Sunye, isn't that a reliable source? Muslii4 (talk) 14:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Muslii4 Don't even try to fool me btw, all of your actions are recorded down in the Wikipedia software in case you're unaware of, and easily referred back by any editors. According to this diff, you didn't provide any reliable source for Sunye's departure period and to be precise, I'm referring to line '''Soloists''' and * [[Sunye]]. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:18, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I think there was a misunderstanding, I was reffering to the source I provided in the lead section. From what I understand now the source should not be in the lead but in the former artists part. Is that why you reverted it? Muslii4 (talk) 16:47, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Muslii4 There isn't any misunderstanding, please refer to my first and second reply above. Both of my replies, already answered your queries. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:04, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Thit is the reference I am talking about, taken from the diff you mentioned:

<ref>{{Cite web |title=원더걸스 ‘선예’ 블록베리 떠나...첫 솔로 싱글 ‘댓츠 미’ 발매 |url=https://n.news.naver.com/entertain/now/article/023/0003772586 |access-date=2023-06-29 |website=n.news.naver.com |language=ko}}</ref>

Why do you not consider this a reliable source? Muslii4 (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Muslii4 OMG ... you have issues understanding English or what ... pretty sure I already answered your queries clearly. To repeat as stated in my initial reply (if you even bothered reading), your edit was reverted because you didn't include any reliable source for Sunye's departure. On the other hand, unrelated to including reliable source, sourcing in the lead, i.e. the Naver reference that you added above and is referring to, is unnecessary per MOS:REFLEAD as it's already sourced in the body. Also, you DO NOT need to include multiple references reporting on the same news otherwise this is considered as WP:REFBOMB. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for troubling you so much, thank you for the other tips. I assure you I do read your replies.

Please just tell me why this article, about Sunye's departure from Blockberry Creative:

https://n.news.naver.com/entertain/now/article/023/0003772586

is not a reliable source for Sunye's departure. Muslii4 (talk) 17:47, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Notability tagging

You've been around long enough to know that Jae Park easily meets our WP:MUSIC and WP:GNG criteria. Did you mean to add that tag? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:54, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Ohnoitsjamie Oops, thanks for the revert. Just realise, I tagged the wrong one, meant to tag more RS needed instead. Overall, the article requires a heavy cleanup also. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:01, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

OK, that makes sense! Apologies for not AGF, it took me a second to recognize your username and recall that you've been around awhile. Thanks, OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 18:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

@Ohnoitsjamie No worries. Thanks and happy editing! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:18, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2023).

Administrator changes

Novem Linguae

Bureaucrat changes

MBisanz

Guideline and policy news

Contributions to the English Wikipedia are now released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of CC BY-SA 3.0. Contributions are still also released under the GFDL license.

Technical news

Discussion is open regarding a proposed global policy regarding third-party resources. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.

Arbitration

Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the Scottywong case and 9 July 2023 for the AlisonW case.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 3 July 2023

News and notes: Online Safety Bill: Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia UK launch open letter

Disinformation report: Imploded submersible outfit foiled trying to sing own praises on Wikipedia

In the media: Journo proposes mass Wiki dox, sponsored articles on Fandom, Section 230 discussed

Featured content: Incensed

Traffic report: Are you afraid of spiders? Arnold? The Idol? ChatGPT?

Humour: United Nations dispatches peacekeeping force to Wikipedia policy discussions

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:15, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-27

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

As part of the rolling out of the audio links that play on click wishlist proposal, small wikis will now be able to use the inline audio player that is implemented by the Phonos extension. [32]
From this week all gadgets automatically load on mobile and desktop sites. If you see any problems with gadgets on your wikis, please adjust the gadget options in your gadget definitions file. [33]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 4 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 5 July. It will be on all wikis from 6 July (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 22:49, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Cleanup list templates in B.I article

Hi!

I saw that you added two Cleanup list templates in the article about B.I, one in the Music festivals section and one in the Other live performances section. You said that it was because some of the events failed to meet WP:NEVENTS, WP:GNG/WP:SIGCOV and WP:PASSING, and I'm genuinely confused about this.

I completely agree that most if not all the events listed in the sections in question do not meet these criteria. However, these notability criteria are meant to determine whether an event can have its own article, not to decide whether it can be included in an embedded list within an article. WP:NNC even states explicitly that "notability guidelines do not apply to content within articles or lists". MOS:TIMELINE (for embedded lists) or WP:LISTCRIT (for stand-alone lists) would apply instead. WP:INDISCRIMINATE as well, of course. Since lists of live performances commonly include festivals and performances at various types of live events - see List of Beyoncé live performances, List of Coldplay live performances, List of Taylor Swift live performances, List of BTS live performances, etc. -, I would assume that it's not a general problem with the lists, rather some specific performances that you think shouldn't be mentioned? If so, maybe you can explain it in the talk page so we can understand and try to address the matter? It would be really helpful.

- DriftingLill (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

@DriftingLill Hi, NNC already answered your concerns, just not the one you quoted, read further down, you will get the answer. Similarly, TIMELINE and LISTCRIT which you linked, both also points to the same sets of guidelines and policies, as with NNC. I don't really see the need to start a pointless discussion at the talk page when a quick search would return obvious results on which are the "some of the non-notable events" in violations, and the answers already given in plain slight in the guidelines and policies. I tagged the sub-sections, as I would like to wait and see for 1 week to see if any other editors would do so, before proceeding to purge "some of the non-notable events" myself. And also, the examples you provided (minus Coldplay ones which has bunch of uncyclopaedia rubbish and partially at 5% for Beyonce ones), contains events that are notable with significant coverage and not just because they're sourced and simply verifiable so it's included. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:12, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Thank you for answering.

No, notability isn't relevant for content within articles in general, and it isn't in this case either. If you're referring to "unless editors agree to use notability as part of the list selection criteria", there is no such agreement for these two lists (and this was meant for list articles, not embedded lists). In practice, besides usual policies for article content - which don't include notability -, the criteria for inclusion in the "Festivals" and "Other live performances" sections of this article are simply inferred by editors from the titles of the sections and the existing content of the lists.

The "Festivals" section lists B.I's performances in festivals and collective concerts - i.e. large scale public music performances with multiple performers, excluding online collective concerts. Collective concerts and festivals are listed together because it's sometimes difficult to determine whether the event is one or the other. I'm not sure if this would help, but we could change the title to "Festivals and collective concerts" so it's more straightforward.

Noteworthy events that are neither solo concerts nor offline festivals/collective concerts fall under the "Other live performances" section. Events listed in this section are still required to be official live performances, with an organizer, an audience, the artist performing his songs live in a professional fashion, etc. The scope is actually rather small.

- DriftingLill (talk) 11:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@DriftingLill Short answer: WP:CONPOL period. Long answer: Not sure, how and what, you even read, maybe cherrypicking whichever sentence and/or guidelines and/or policies that you prefer ignoring the rest. I'm not going to repeat myself again since I find it pointless and wasting my precious time when this can be use to improve and maintain any articles. In addition, it isn't the sub-sections title being "wrong" (quote read as Air quotes) nor was it even one to being with. Neither is the delivery method the "issue" to even begin with. To clarify further on what "some of the non-notable events" means, I'm not referring to B.I own events i.e. his fanmeeting cum mini concert or whatever WP:FANCRUFTy terminology it is coined as and/or refer to, and his showcase, nor am I referring to those blue-links ones. Regardless, I already stated that clearly above on which are the obvious ones that are falls under non-notable territory, if you even bothered to do a quick search (cross-check) based on what I stated. Oh also, seemingly ignoring WP:INDISCRIMINATE altogether other than WP:CONPOL, you don't pick whichever sentences and/or guidelines and/or policies you like btw, and apply them selectively. To end, I guess I'm wasting my own time to type out this ... — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Bigbang edits

@Btspurplegalaxy removed content on Bigbangs article because it was unverified, i reverted this but realised my mistake and fixed it. My fixes were reverted by @52-whalien, which is considered disruptive as it was properly sourced. Hope this clears it up. Gamowebbed (talk) 13:07, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

@Gamowebbed This isn't my concern, you reverted more than WP:3RR hence you are edit warring period, despite clear objections from 2 experienced editors, in which is a clear indication that there is something wrong with your edits, in which it's your responsibility to join the already opened discussion on the article's talk page to discuss further however I don't see any indications of such other than deciding to bulldoze your way by reverting, there is no who is right or wrong nor my content is correct while other is wrong. In addition, your reverts also does not falls under any of the criteria listed under WP:3RRNO. Fyi, I've WP:WATCHing the article for years hence every single actions, I've been monitoring it, including the bunch of reverting since 4 July 2023, so this isn't some out of the blue moon warning. Take this reply, in addition to the warning at your talk page, as my final warning to you, the next revert (which I considered as 5RR violation) you made on that article, would instead be discuss on WP:AN/3RR. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:27, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

If you actually read my message, it says I realised by mistake and fixed it, yet that fix was reverted? Gamowebbed (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

@Gamowebbed I had already stated my stands above, "there is no who is right or wrong nor my content is correct while other is wrong", you are supposed to be joining the already opened discussion to discuss instead however you decided to "correct" the disputed/in discussion content without bothering to even discuss about it. And fyi, sourced does not guarantee inclusion in which based on the reverts from 2 experienced editors, and also the existing discussion, you simply do not have consensus. Anyway, as of currently, I noted that based on your talk page, you've been reported by another editor on WP:AN/3RR, you better explain your actions there instead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-28

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The Section-level Image Suggestions feature has been deployed on seven Wikipedias (Portuguese, Russian, Indonesian, Catalan, Hungarian, Finnish and Norwegian Bokmål). The feature recommends images for articles on contributors' watchlists that are a good match for individual sections of those articles.
Global abuse filters have been enabled on all Wikimedia projects, except English and Japanese Wikipedias (who opted out). This change was made following a global request for comments. [34]
Special:BlockedExternalDomains is a new tool for administrators to help fight spam. It provides a clearer interface for blocking plain domains (and their subdomains), is more easily searchable, and is faster for the software to process for each edit on the wiki. It does not support regex (for complex cases), nor URL path-matching, nor the MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist, but otherwise it replaces most of the functionalities of the existing MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. There is a Python script to help migrate all simple domains into this tool, and more feature details, within the tool's documentation. It is available at all wikis except for Meta-wiki, Commons, and Wikidata. [35]
The WikiEditor extension was updated. It includes some of the most frequently used features of wikitext editing. In the past, many of its messages could only be translated by administrators, but now all regular translators on translatewiki can translate them. Please check the state of WikiEditor localization into your language, and if the "Completion" for your language shows anything less than 100%, please complete the translation. See a more detailed explanation.

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 11 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 12 July. It will be on all wikis from 13 July (calendar).
The default protocol of Special:LinkSearch and API counterparts has changed from http to both http and https. [36]
Special:LinkSearch and its API counterparts will now search for all of the URL provided in the query. It used to be only the first 60 characters. This feature was requested fifteen years ago. [37]

Future changes

There is an experiment with a ChatGPT plugin. This is to show users where the information is coming from when they read information from Wikipedia. It has been tested by Wikimedia Foundation staff and other Wikimedians. Soon all ChatGPT plugin users can use the Wikipedia plugin. This is the same plugin which was mentioned in Tech News 2023/20. [38]
There is an ongoing discussion on a proposed Third-party resources policy. The proposal will impact the use of third-party resources in gadgets and userscripts. Based on the ideas received so far, policy includes some of the risks related to user scripts and gadgets loading third-party resources, some best practices and exemption requirements such as code transparency and inspectability. Your feedback and suggestions are warmly welcome until July 17, 2023 on on the policy talk page.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 19:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Weverse article deletion

Was there a discussion or something where this was nominated? The entire article itself wasn't promotional so I don't see why the whole thing was deleted. Wouldn't a better route been to have removed or trimmed the offending section instead? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 19:59, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie I couldn't find one, it was deleted as WP:G11 by Jimfbleak according to the remaining logs, will need to ask him at his talk page to see if he is willing to restore it. And yes, the entire article isn't promotional, only certain portions, maybe he has another perspective/interpretation. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:07, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Btspurplegalaxy and Lightoil already left msgs on their talk page about it, so I also left a comment. Hopefully we get it restored so that we can fix the problematic section, because the rest of the article was good. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 04:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie Noted, hopefully it restored. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:09, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Reborn Rich

Hey @Paper9oll, I figured my edit would be undone because of the lacking reference, however the problem is that I was not able to find any source that would be "valid": Seoul International Drama Awards hasn't posted a list of nominees for this category on their website, as it is fully fan-voted, not jury-voted; I believe neither ATEEZ nor KQ Entertainment (their agency) posted about the nomination anywhere, and I wasn't able to find any news articles, so the only sources are the app that was used for voting - Idolchamp and Twitter discussions. I do not know how to proceed further, and what can/should be done. 89.172.4.6 (talk) 14:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@89.172.4.6 As per WP:BURDEN and WP:INDISCRIMINATE, if you can't source it then you can't include it here, pretty simple and straight forward. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:19, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 July 2023

News and notes: Big bux hidden beneath wine-dark sea as we wait for the Tides to go out?

In the media: Tentacles of Emirates plot attempt to ensnare Wikipedia

Obituary: David Thomsen (Dthomsen8) and Ingo Koll (Kipala)

News from the WMF: ABC for Fundraising: Advancing Banner Collaboration for fundraising campaigns

In focus: Are the children of celebrities over-represented in French cinema?

Tips and tricks: What automation can do for you (and your WikiProject)

Recent research: Wikipedia-grounded chatbot "outperforms all baselines" on factual accuracy

Humour: New fringe theories to be introduced

Cobwebs: If you're reading this, you're probably on a desktop

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Traffic report: The Idol becomes the Master

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Tech News: 2023-29

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

We are now serving 1% of all global user traffic from Kubernetes (you can read more technical details). We are planning to increment this percentage regularly. You can follow the progress of this work.

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 18 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 19 July. It will be on all wikis from 20 July (calendar).
MediaWiki system messages will now look for available local fallbacks, instead of always using the default fallback defined by software. This means wikis no longer need to override each language on the fallback chain separately. For example, English Wikipedia doesn't have to create en-ca and en-gb subpages with a transclusion of the base pages anymore. This makes it easier to maintain local overrides. [39]
The action=growthsetmentorstatus API will be deprecated with the new MediaWiki version. Bots or scripts calling that API should use the action=growthmanagementorlist API now. [40]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Would you consider becoming a New Page Reviewer?

Hi Paper9oll, we need experienced volunteers.

New Page Patrol is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles. We could use a few extra hands on deck if you think you can help.
Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; Wikipedia needs experienced users to perform this task and there are precious few with the appropriate skills. Even a couple reviews a day can make a huge difference.
Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision (if it looks daunting, don't worry, it basically boils down to checking CSD, notability, and title). If this looks like something that you can do, please consider joining us.
If you would like to join the project and help out, please see the granting conditions. You can apply for the user-right HERE.
If you have questions, please feel free to drop a message on my talk page or at the reviewer's discussion board.
Cheers, and hope to see you around — ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 20:47, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Huang Renjun

Hi there! Thank you for making edits on my draft page! I really want to get it approved and i checked through the wiki guidelines you referenced. As such, if you don't mind please tell me why the portions about endorsement and photoshoots were removed because the information is factual and i have provided citations. Also it helps to add notability because it showcases how the person mentioned has made enough public appearances which warrants the reason for creating a wikipedia biography. I've also referenced other pages and they did have sections like this mentioned, so if possible I'd actually prefer to keep them inside. Intuivo (talk) 06:35, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Intuivo, endorsement are allowed if you can provide reliable source(s) in which, you failed to do so, you provided unreliable source(s) instead not just for the endorsement section but majority of the article consists of unreliable sources listed under WP:RSP and/or WP:KO/RS#UR. In addition, you also attempted to removed all of the maintenance templates without resolving the issues which is in violation of WP:WNTRMT twice, this is considered as disruptive editing and/or vandalism. Photoshoots section are trivia and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Verifiable does not guarantee inclusion. BLP articles is not designed and should not be written to "showcases" the subject, Wikipedia is not a fancruft website, BLP should be written in neutral point of view and sourced using reliable sources. Lastly, also read on WP:MFA, WP:GNG, WP:NBLP, and WP:NSINGER. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:37, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Reply on the Aisha talk section.

You asked for reliable sources in the Aisha talk page. I left a reply presenting multiple references. These sources substantiate the claim in the Aisha section, suggesting that some individuals believe she was 18 or 19 years old, warranting a well-structured paragraph to elaborate on this viewpoint.

The present information regarding this disparity in views is heavily biased and lacks clear definition. 39.41.231.180 (talk) 09:09, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@39.41.231.180 I have reopened the edit request, another editor will come by to reviewed it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:39, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted

Hi Paper9oll. Your account has been added to the "New page reviewers" user group. Please check back at WP:PERM in case your user right is time-limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page or ask via the NPP Discord. In addition, please remember:

Be nice to new editors. They are usually not aware that they are doing anything wrong. Do make use of the message feature when tagging pages for maintenance so that they are aware.
You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted. Please be formal and polite in your approach to them – even if they are not.
If you are not sure what to do with a page, don't review it – just leave it for another reviewer.
Accuracy is more important than speed. Take your time to patrol each page. Use the message feature to communicate with article creators and offer advice as much as possible.

The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. If you can read any languages other than English, please add yourself to the list of new page reviewers with language proficiencies. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 16:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Ingenuity Thanks you! Happy editing. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:11, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Armando Normand source

Asking out of curiosity, was it an independent source or two I needed to add? I've added 20 or so more citations, and given corroborative citations. Mainly they're from the same sources: which I've read or am in the process of reading. Is there a specific area that should be cleared up or, can you give me pointers so I can help myself? Arawoke (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Arawoke, I can still see that certain sentences remains unsourced in the latest revision. All sentence should be sourced, if it isn't possible, then it should be removed since it isn't WP:VERIFIABLE. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:43, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I thought they were sources but I have too many ‘run ons’ where 1 source summarizes a paragraph based on a few pages. Instead of spreading that out: but thank you! I’ll work on it Arawoke (talk) 05:47, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

About Draft:Bull Gamma 3

Hello,

Thank you for your review of this article. As a foreword and disclaimer, I am the author of the original article on the French wikipedia where I've been a contributor since 2006. I also work as a volunteer at the ACONIT computer museum in France where I collaborated with some of the authors mentioned in the external references, and give guided tours and demonstrations for the public regarding this machine.

So far I have included 15 references for this somewhat short article, some of them academic. Unfortunately, a lot of them are in French, which I concede is not optimal for the English version.

Could you point to parts of the article you would like me to improve, or how? I will be glad to make the appropriate changes.

Best regards,

Damien.b (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Damien.b, as stated, all information should be sourced in which I could see certain sentence are unsourced, please source them before resubmitting. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Understood. Indeed, those sentences were sourced indirectly with the previous or next sentence or paragraph, so I re-used the relevant sources for the missing sentences.

With those changes done, I took the liberty to resubmit the article. Hopefully this now meets the criteria.

Damien.b (talk) 13:58, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Damien.b Noted, please note that I will leave it to another editor to review it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Takemitsu Morikawa

Hello, Thank you for your comments. I looked through the main text and there are only links to Wikipedia webpages. Could you please let me know, where you spotted an external link. In terms of the reliable sources, these are no different from the German version for this author, so I am not quite sure why the references in the German version were okay, but not in this one. I would appreciate your feedback on that. Many thanks. Cm4004 (talk) 17:27, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Cm4004, as stated, external links cannot exists in the body of the draft/article. I could still see 8 external links in the "Education und Academic Career" section, noting that 6 are interwiki links while 2 are seemingly citations. For interwiki links, please read H:FOREIGNLINK on how to format them correctly. For all of the citations (inclusive of the 2 external links), it should be converted to proper formatting using the Template:Cite web, I have updated the 2nd citation on the draft as an example, you can reference it as an example to format the remaining. Please also fix the 1st and 6th citations, as both are dead link. Certain sentence are also unsourced, please source them per WP:VERIFY. As English Wikipedia and German Wikipedia are both different projects, both have their own set of guidelines and policies in which neither are related to each other or vice versa, what may applies in English Wikipedia, may not on German Wikipedia or vice versa. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. This is really too technical and complicate for me. I will ask a friend for help. Cm4004 (talk) 05:28, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Huang Renjun

Hi i saw that you flagged me out for vandalism but all i did was removed the unverified sources, i feel really helpless because you want me to add new sources to verify the citations, but you keep rolling back when i removed the unverified citations. then you flag me out for vandalism for removing the unverified citations? but shouldnt it be removed if it is unverified? i really don't understand and i'm a new user hence i've been asking you for help, also asking in the live chat, but i'm not exactly sure which part is the error and vandalism and i read through the guidelines. if i cant remove the unverified sources, how do i improve on the draft? Do i do it through the talk page or RFC? Will that help?

Intuivo (talk) 03:01, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo As stated previously here and with those warnings messages on your talk page, if you even bothered reading. And to repeat again for your WP:CIR issue, you removed all of the maintenance templates without resolving the issues which is in violation of WP:WNTRMT four times, this is considered as disruptive editing and/or vandalism. And also, you added Soompi sources to "fixed" {{Citation needed}} when I had also previously stated to you that it's considered as unreliable sources per WP:KO/RS#UR hence you're clearly not reading what I wrote and simply not resolving anything. Only remove the individual maintenance templates (i.e. those tagged as {{Unreliable source}}, {{Citation needed}}) when you had resolved the issues i.e. replacing the unreliable source with reliable source of which, you have failed to do so on 4 occassions. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:26, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh i thought just deleting unverified sources removes it? I want to delete the unverified source not to fix it. Oh sorry i thought i just remove the {{Unreliable source}} and the source is deleted. i didn't know that it just deletes the "{{Unreliable source}}" words cause i edited it in visual mode. So how do i delete the source since it's unverified? Do i remove the reference portion at the bottom? Intuivo (talk) 03:38, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Unfortunately, removing the maintenance template (i.e. {{Unreliable source}}) doesn't removes the citations, you have the click the concerned citation and backspace to remove it, similar to how you removed the maintenance template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:46, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay! I got it now, sorry I really didn't know that's what it did. So if I remove all the citations then after that can you review it again see if it's correct? Cause i dont want to get flagged for warning again. Intuivo (talk) 03:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo After you removed all of the flagged citations and also resolved the {{Citation needed}}, you should ensure all of the information are reliably sourced and doesn't contains unreliable sources listed on WP:RSP and/or WP:KO/RS#UR before resubmitting the draft. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Can i just delete the section that needs the {{citation needed}} ? Intuivo (talk) 03:57, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Yes, you can if sourcing reliably isn't possible. Fyi, I removed two of the citations (hellokpop/allkpop) you added as they are considered as unreliable source per WP:KO/RS#UR. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Is Kocowa ok? It's not listed here WP:KO/RS#UR

https://www.kocowa.com/en_us/season/4450361/2019-idol-star-athletics-championships-chuseok-special Intuivo (talk) 04:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Provide secondary reliable sources i.e. in the form of news sources instead. If that episode is notable then it should be available on Naver News. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:16, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Paper9oll thanks i did find more sources. Can i check then can i remove this line: "In this Chinese name, the family name is Huang." cause i dont think it's very useful, also it's kind of awkward if it's at the top of the page and im not sure why it was added in. Intuivo (talk) 04:49, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Please don't remove that, {{Short description}}, {{Use mdy dates}}. {{Family name hatnote}} are WP:HATNOTE and are a requirement for English Wikipedia BLP articles. The {{Merge}} is also a hatnote and shouldn't be removed until the concerned (i.e. the merger of both draft) is resolved. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:51, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Paper9oll, oh ok got it. I tried to "talk page" the other draft user, is there anything i can do about it if the other user doesn't respond? Since I've filled in the new citations is there anything else i can do now? is this considered notable enough? or should i add more info in? Intuivo (talk) 05:49, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Every editor here are volunteer to the projects, they will response when they are online, it may take hours or even days. You can choose to resubmit the draft and wait for another reviewer to review it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Kim Woojin Wikipedia page changes

Hello.

I made the following changes to the Kim Woojin Wikipedia page

— added a new picture (2023) to his page since it included an old picture

— added a link to his social medias since there was a link to his Instagram only using external link option

Is there an issue?

Youniverstarjin (talk) 11:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Youniverstarjin Yes clearly an issue that you're unaware of as a new user. Firstly, you added copyrighted image which isn't allowed on English Wikipedia and is in violation of WP:Image use policy and Commons:NETCOPYVIO. Secondly, you added bunch of social medias links which similar isn't allowed on English Wikipeida and is in violation of WP:NOSOCIAL. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:02, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

okay. i understood

— is it possible to change the external link to his official website then? (it already includes links to all his social medias)

— And is it still possible to add a new picture? like the one the page has now? Or other people except the artist/company itself can't change the picture? If possible, i will research how to add a new picture with following the Wikipedia guidelines. Youniverstarjin (talk) 12:11, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

@Youniverstarjin Yes, official website are allowed however only one per WP:ELMINOFFICIAL which I have added. Infobox's image can be changed by any editors provided the image met the guidelines and policies however this shouldn't be done frequently without valid reason. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-30

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

On July 18, the Wikimedia Foundation launched a survey about the technical decision making process for people who do technical work that relies on software that is maintained by the Foundation or affiliates. If this applies to you, please take part in the survey. The survey will be open for three weeks, until August 7. You can find more information in the announcement e-mail on wikitech-l.

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 25 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 26 July. It will be on all wikis from 27 July (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 02:18, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Question on bot

Hi can i check how you implemented the auto archive bot? I tried to copy your code but it didnt work for mine. is it because i'm not an administrator?

Here's what i used:

{{User:Intuivo/TopIcon}}
{{User:Intuivo/TalkHeader}}
{{NoACEMM}}
{{Clear}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
| algo                = old(8h)
| archive             = User talk:Intuivo/Archive %(counter)d
| counter             = 1
| maxarchivesize      = 50T
| archiveheader       = {{User:Intuivo/TalkArchiveHeader}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft      = 0
}}

Did i code it wrongly? Intuivo (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo Well you copied mine, of course it didn't work. I intentionally created it to be mine to avoid any WP:SOCK accusation so kindly don't copy it. If you want to setup archiving bot, copy the below code:

{{User:MiszaBot/config
| algo                = old(7d)
| archive             = {{SUBST:#titleparts:{{SUBST:FULLPAGENAME}}}}/Archive %(counter)d
| counter             = 1
| maxarchivesize      = 150K
| archiveheader       = {{Automatic archive navigator}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft      = 0
}}

you can change the archiving frequency by changing 7d to your preferred value, 7d is 7 days. Full documentation for the archiving bot is at User:Lowercase sigmabot III/Archive HowTo. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:01, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh didnt know you didnt allow copying codes, i thought it was an open source wiki bot. Thanks for revising the code for me anyways! Intuivo (talk) 07:17, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@Intuivo For clarification, I was referring to {{User:Paper9oll/TopIcon}}, {{User:Paper9oll/TalkHeader}}, these 2 userspace's templates were created by me for my own talkpage usage only, it's designed to my preferred styling so to avoid any WP:SOCK accusation and/or impersonation. The archiving bot is open source wiki bot and isn't created by me, however you can't just copy the code without adjustment otherwise it wouldn't work, the full documentation for that bot is located at User:Lowercase sigmabot III/Archive HowTo if you want to read through about the customization available to adjust. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:43, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Lose It! (app)

I would appreciate it if you could provide further elaboration on the reason for the decline of Draft:Lose It! (app). Please let me know the specific areas I can edit and address before I resubmit the draft. Thank you for your assistance. Thecrocz (talk) 05:53, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Thecrocz, as stated, your draft read like an advertisement for promoting the application. Please rewrite it (in particularly the App section) in neutral point of view i.e. free of any promotional tone. Once you think you're done with it, click the submit button and wait for another reviewer to review it. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I have reduced the promotional verbiage. Could you please have another look and let me know if it is OK. You don't have to review, I can wait for another reviewer if that is what you prefer, but I would just like an opinion to see if I am on the right track. Thecrocz (talk) 22:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@Thecrocz Imo, I would also suggest joining the sentences in the 1st and 2nd paragraphs of the App section together instead of having a repeatitive mentions of "Lose It! also" and/or "The app can also". The 3rd paragraphs can remains as current. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 02:50, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I think I fixed it. Could you see if that is what you meant? Thecrocz (talk) 07:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@Thecrocz Looks good now imo. As you have resubmitted, please wait for another reviewer to come by and review it. Thanks! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 08:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Ive (group) reverted edit

Hi, I actually have some typo that should have been, "Known for their catchy songs, reassuring lyrics and themes of self-love." It was abided by NPOV. So I'm wondering why the edit was reverted, would you mind double checking and explain it further, thank you for your patience. 120.29.79.64 (talk) 13:16, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.79.64 The sentence certainly doesn't read like it's written in neutral point of view, it reads as if you're trying to promote the group by praising them with puffery. In addition, this has nothing to do with typo error nor sourcing. Please write out the sentence in neutral point of view, free of any promotional tone, praising tone, and puffery. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying, would this view alright? "Ive is acknowledged for their catchy songs, incorporation of reassuring lyrics, and exploration of themes of self-love." 120.29.79.64 (talk) 13:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.79.64 What does "reassuring lyrics" even means? The rest portion looks good however I'm not okay with "reassuring lyrics". — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Since the lyrics itself is in their themes of self-love, I think this would be alright?

"Ive is acknowledged for their catchy songs, and exploration of themes of self-love." 120.29.79.64 (talk) 14:19, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Ok looks good, you may add it with the same reliable sources provided previously. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:26, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Okay thank you for assisting, the edit was made 120.29.79.64 (talk) 14:35, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Bull Gamma 3

WP:AFC is not WP:GAR. Please do not decline articles that have sourcing deficiencies. Tag them with {{refimprove}} and accept them so that other editors can make the needed improvements in mainspace. ~Kvng (talk) 13:23, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kvng I deem WP:VERIFY as one of the important factors, if it cannot be sourced then it should be removed. I also don't see how tagging new articles with {{refimprove}} is any helpful when it's already newly created to begin with, if it's some old articles then it may be helpful. And fyi, the revision I rejected is this which certainly isn't aligned with WP:CONPOL in particularly WP:VERIFY in which the draft creator managed to source it to the current acceptable standard which I would have gladly accepted it then if it's this state. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

This does not square well with AfC reviewing instructions. The overriding criteria for acceptance is that the article is WP:UNLIKELY to be deleted at WP:AFD. AfC authors are typically limited in the quality of material they can produce. Getting article quality up to standards requires contributions from more experienced editors and that doesn't happen until the draft is promoted to mainspace. ~Kvng (talk) 14:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kvng I'm so confused right now, I don't see any wrong issues with my declined when I'm simply following the correct workflow. Step 2 of WP:AFCR stated exactly that, and furthermore my declined doesn't falls under WP:AFCSTANDARDS either. If the workflow listed at AFCR is wrong then that should be changed, however AFCR is simply following the wider policies which is WP:CONPOL so CONPOL should be changed instead (good luck with that) since to me, you're implying that verifiable is something that should be ignored for AFC, I'm looking for bare minimum not GAR/FAR standards sourcing. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

As far as WP:AFCR is concerned, the only aspect of WP:VERIFY that come in to play are:

There should be good sources to establish notability of the subject (WP:42)
Direct quotations and contentious material about living persons require citations

We do not require comprehensive sourcing of material in a draft. We're encouraged to WP:AGF toward authors and doing so may result in publication of WP:OR or even stuff that's wrong but that can be dealt with through improvements made once the draft is in mainspace. These issues are outside the AfC reviewer's scope. ~Kvng (talk) 17:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we're on the same page, and neither does your explanation tally with WP:AFCR#Reviewing workflow. I'm not going to waste my time to explain further when I had already did so, whether you understood or not isn't my problem. My decline is perfectly aligned with WP:AFCR#Reviewing workflow, in particular WP:AFCR#Step 2: Notability and verifiability which stated quote "If what is written in the submission meets the notability guidelines, but the submission lacks references to evidence this, then the underlying issue is inadequate verification and the submission should be declined for that reason", so whether you like or not, I'll continue to follow WP:AFCR#Reviewing workflow. Goodbye! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:19, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I think we're not getting closer. Please bear with me. If you didn't find sufficient evidence of notability in the draft, you should have use notability as the decline reason. Your stated reason for declining was Improperly sourced with a comment All information should be sourced. I would not read this as a notability issue. The author was apparently confused too. ~Kvng (talk) 17:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Kvng No, we're getting closer. And I'm not going to bear with you ... this is frustrating when you didn't understood what I'm even saying to begin with. Subject met notability but "lacks references to evidence this", so declining the submission is valid reason. I didn't even said subject failed notability so I'm not sure why you're implying as such to begin with, and going merry go-round. While maybe my comments was explictly enough, nowhere did I stated subject failed notability, regardless I will make sure my further AfC comments is more explicit. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:38, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

OK, sorry to frustrate you. Yes, please review your comments and make sure it would be clear to an inxperienced author what improvements are needed to earn acceptance. ~Kvng (talk) 17:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Suga filmography

Why did you delete Suga filmography that I created? Lisa19980325 (talk) 16:36, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Lisa19980325 The filmography section is not big enough to met the criteria for WP:SPLIT. Since your WP:BOLD SPLIT has been rejected/objected, the only remaining option available to you is follow the instructions at WP:PROSPLIT on how to create a split discussion at Talk:Suga (rapper) to gain WP:CONSENSUS. DO NOT attempt another BOLD SPLIT as you do not have CONSENSUS to do so. In addition, please note that as per CONSENSUS at WT:KO (search through the archives), any form of guesting and/or one-time appearance is not allowed for inclusion. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:45, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Move

Move the article Ved Prakash Upaddhay as Ved Prakash Upadhyay. 06:08, 30 July 2023 (UTC) 202.134.9.158 (talk) 06:08, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@202.134.9.158 Why? You can request for movement at WP:RMT. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:31, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Change Ive (group) to IVE

Hello, I ponder about why WJSN and BTS names are all caps on Wikipedia but Ive (group) is not "IVE". Can someone explain it to me? thank you Johnceed (talk) 12:54, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi Johnceed, WJSN (Wonder, Joy, Sweet, and Natural) and BTS (Bangtan Sonyeondan) are acronyms hence per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPSACRS, the article's name are named in all caps. Whereas for Ive, it's not considered as acronyms hence per WP:TITLEFORMAT and MOS:TMRULES, the article's name is named in sentence case. In addition, the naming in the content must match the article title i.e. if e.g. the article name (without the WP:DISAMBIGUATION) is Ive then the name in the content must be written to match. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:11, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

But on official social media accounts of the group they never use "Ive" instead they always use "IVE". So it kinda confusing when people see "Ive" because they are not use to it. Johnceed (talk) 13:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@Johnceed Stylizing on English Wikipedia is per MOS:TMRULES which is part of the WP:MOS WP:GUIDELINES. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Fandom information in wikipedia

Hi, I am making a different discussion thread, with different inquiry, Blackpink has details explaining their fan club name on Blackpink wikipedia page and BTS has a "Fandom" section on its wikipedia page. My question is, why don't other groups have those information on their wikipedia page? Also can we add information like the group's official lightstick or other fandom details? Because I think fandom are very important part of kpop, fandom is literally the heart of every group's career, and most groups attribute their success thanks to their fans. Johnceed (talk) 14:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@Johnceed What do you meant by "we", are you using this account for sharing purposes, please stop that immediately if you're doing so, as per WP:SOCK sharing of accounts is strictly not allowed, and is a blockable offense. I don't see any information of lightstick for neither articles. For Blackpink, only a brief mentions of fanclub name in their career section. For BTS, their fandom has WP:SIGCOV from WP:SECONDARY WP:INDEPENDENT reliable sources as compared to other K-pop groups, I don't see the same SIGCOV for other K-pop groups other than WP:ROUTINE coverage which is why you don't see such section. Also note that every materials written on English Wikipedia must be WP:NPOV and free of any form of promotional tone, WP:PUFFERY, and WP:FANCRUFT. Lastly, also note that sources like Allkpop, Koreaboo, Soompi, Kpopstarz, etc, cannot be included here as they are considered as unreliable source per WP:KO/RS#UR and previous consensus achieved at WT:KO. In addition to WP:KO/RS#UR for a list of unreliable sources, there is also a wider WP:RSPSOURCES list. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:26, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-31

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

The Synchronizer tool is now available to keep Lua modules synced across Wikimedia wikis, along with updated documentation to develop global Lua modules and templates.
The tag filter on Special:NewPages and revision history pages can now be inverted. For example, you can hide edits that were made using an automated tool. [41][42]
The Wikipedia ChatGPT plugin experiment can now be used by ChatGPT users who can use plugins. You can participate in a video call if you want to talk about this experiment or similar work. [43]

Problems

It was not possible to generate a PDF for pages with non-Latin characters in the title, for the last two weeks. This has now been fixed. [44]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 1 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 2 August. It will be on all wikis from 3 August (calendar).
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Queendom Puzzle

Hi, that colored table that have been there for weeks but you did not do anything with it??? Until today after I talked with another user who removed all color in that table.

Now that table are hard to see again, with a blank, colorless table. Gok-kun1006 (talk) 15:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 You violated MOS:COLOR period. I previously tagged the section in this diff which was resolved in this diff. At this point of time, you don't any WP:CONSENSUS to override the WP:MOS WP:GUIDELINES and in particularly MOS:COLOR, you're recommended to WP:BRD via the article's talk page in which you had failed to do but instead kept WP:DISRUPTIVE EDITING, continuing this unacceptable behaviour by deliberately go against the WP:MOS guidelines is a blockable offense as warned. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll But that colored table that have been there for weeks but you did not do anything with it until today???

But now I have changed again with less color than previous. Please check and advise. Gok-kun1006 (talk) 15:41, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 You seem to have misread and/or misunderstood the whole point of tagging the section with {{Overcolored}} which per the template's documentation quote "If an article does not meet the guideline for the use of colours ... if the problem only affects one section of the article, add this to the top of the relevant section" and also per last point of MOS:COLOR quote "If an article overuses colors ... Place {{Overcolored}} or {{Overcoloured}} at the top of the article" which was done with this diff which I explictly had stated above, which was later resolved by Speedthief1 through this diff which I also explictly had stated above. In addition, as a WP:NPP reviewer, it's one of my responsibility to review the new article (which Queendom Puzzle is considered as one) to ensure it meet the WP:GUIDELINES and WP:POLICIES which WP:MOS alongside MOS:COLOR is part of.

You DO NOT have any WP:CONSENSUS (click the link and read if you haven't done so) to introduce colors to the table at this point of time, YOU ARE REQUIRED to start an discussion per WP:BRD at Talk:Queendom Puzzle to gain WP:CONSENSUS if you want to introduce colors in which you have not done so. In which, until you achieved WP:CONSENSUS, you CANNOT introduce colors to the table. And as stated explictly above already, continuing this unacceptable behaviour by deliberately go against the WP:MOS guidelines is a blockable offense as warned. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Sorry. So how can I place a colored table like this one for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fantasy_Boys_contestants to avoid being reverted back again. Can you explain more simple because I see that table are more colorful than the one I do? Gok-kun1006 (talk) 15:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 Is there any communication errors? I had clearly stated in my replies above twice if you even bothered to read it fully.

In short, start a discussion at Talk:Queendom Puzzle and wait till you achieved WP:CONSENSUS, is this not clear enough? Until then, DO NOT ADD colored table. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:04, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, there are many difficult words for me to understand.

Okay, so I will start a discussion first. Will you at the discussion as well? Gok-kun1006 (talk) 16:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 Yes, I will comment there. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll I have started a discussion there. Please check. Gok-kun1006 (talk) 16:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 Noted — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Gok-kun1006 Just in case, this wasn't clear enough. CONSENSUS isn't achieved with just between me and you, me commenting on the discussion doesn't means CONSENSUS is already achieved. The discussion at the article' talk page should be left opened for 3 days minimum or longer if discussion are ongoing and until then no changes i.e introduction of colors should be made to the article until the discussion is concluded. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Noted. After I read your explaination in that discussion. I think there no way to add color back to that table... Gok-kun1006 (talk) 16:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Music videos

I'd say for now music videos for NewJeans can be in the NewJeans discography list. The template {{Infobox artist discography}} didn't include the "Music videos" option for nothing. Until NewJeans has more videos down the line, we can have a separate "Videography" list later. Ippantekina (talk) 07:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ippantekina Oppose such changes, I'm okay with moving whatever is related to actual meaning of discography to the discography article i.e. excluding videography. I'm however unsure why does music videos param exists in the Infobox, reading through WP:DISCOGSTYLE, I also see it doesn't applies to list articles other than mentions of able to include music videos section pertaining to the songs on their individual songs articles. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

If we go by a strict sense then digital singles/releases also do not belong to "discography" which used to refer exclusively to physical releases ie in the album era. Music videos can qualify as "musical recordings" and as a means of music release in the digital era. Plus if you decipher "Videography" literally it means "the process of making/creating videos" and not "Video cataloging" per-se. Leaving the music videos in the current "Videography" section reads like WP:MISC in that it includes a dynamic section without adding context to the existing prose. Ippantekina (talk) 09:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@Ippantekina "digital singles/releases also do not belong to "discography" which used to refer exclusively to physical releases ie in the album era" – this is ununderstandable for me personally hence I had zero knowledge what you're even trying to interpret here ... if you were trying to say "back in the jurassic era type of story" then you can save that as I'm millennials hence zero knowledge of that ... furthermore we're half way through 2023. MVs (and I'm not even referring to lyrics videos) are clearly categorized under videography and/or filmography, either which are considered and/or categorized as discography. ""Videography" literally it means the process of making/creating videos" – of course, "videos" not "music", pretty sure I read that explicitly. Not sure why you think having "Videography" section reads like WP:TRIVIA when videography's table is an "spinoff" of WP:FILMOGRAPHY's table with similar styling whereas the same cannot be said for discography's table which explicitly has a different styling and nowhere close enough ... is filmography section in every article that consists of that considered as WP:TRIVIA then? And also, how does moving videography incorrectly to discography magically makes it non-WP:TRIVIA, and "[non-]dynamic section".

Enough of my grandmother story, if you want to restore it just go ahead as WP:OTHER list articles also has them however my stands remains the same as above. The system seem fundamentally broken however it's unlikely to be fixed. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:13, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Windows 11

The article of Microsoft updates its Windows 10 and 11 support roadmaps by Mary Jo Foley on directionsonmicrosoft [cite 18] is just full on speculation.

While it is true that Microsoft is deadset on releasing LTSC sometime this year, the wording of (All non-LTSC versions: Supported until October 14, 2025, with the latest feature updates. / Windows 11's end of support date for all editions also is October 14, 2025) is highly misleading.

Even Microsoft's own lifecycle policy's state that Windows 11 is and will still be in support.

[46]https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-11-home-and-pro

Listing ~~ Windows 11 Home and Pro Start Date ~~ Oct 4, 2021 Retirement Date ~~ In Support

[47]https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-11-enterprise-and-education]

Listing ~~ Windows 11 Enterprise and Education Start Date ~~ Oct 4, 2021 Retirement Date ~~ In Support 2002:D8F9:ECE1:1:C1B0:7003:DE31:557B (talk) 16:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@2002:D8F9:ECE1:1:C1B0:7003:DE31:557B Based on your evidence presented, and further investigation such as Microsoft documentation, I have reverted to the last stable version prior to any changes made by Paianni, whom was the editor that added those information including the questionable citation. However, your edits is also WP:UNSOURCED btw. And fyi, in the current revision, the "Support status" portion of the Infobox has been written as such since the article was created hence if you have any changes you want to be made, please establish consensus at Talk:Windows 11 so that you don't made the same controversial changes (because you disputed it) as Paianni. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Request Move

Hi, can you change the title page "Gaeul (dancer)" into "Gaeul". Remove the "(dancer)", Gaeul is a rapper, and no one really put the "(dancer)" title for solo artist. 120.29.77.209 (talk) 06:28, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.77.209

Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Paper9oll, will Gaeul available to move at mainspace article? 120.29.77.209 (talk) 07:34, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.77.209 Currently Draft:Gaeul doesn't met the WP:GNG, WP:NBLP, WP:NSINGER criteria to suffice having an article in the mainspace, moving it to mainspace will only results in the article ending up at WP:AFD instead. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 09:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@Paper9oll Upon checking, I think it met all of the above-mentioned 120.29.77.209 (talk) 10:39, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.77.209 As an WP:AFC reviewer, the subject clearly failed the above mentioned notability criteria. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I also would like to know why these Wikipedia pages are on the mainspace without meeting the above mentioned.

See these two:

https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaeul

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaeul 120.29.77.209 (talk) 11:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@120.29.77.209 This is English Wikipedia NOT Indonesian Wikipedia nor French Wikipedia, while it has "Wikipedia" in its naming, neither of the 3 projects are related to each other, this applies to the remaining 331 Wikipedia (excluding Indonesian and French) in other languages that are maintained by the Wikimedia Foundation. Each Wikipedia has their own guidelines and policies which are unrelated to each other, what may applies here on English Wikipedia, may and/or may not applies in the remaining 333 Wikipedia (including Indonesian and French). If you have any further queries pertaining to why English Wikipedia is not related to the 333 other languages Wikipedias, you may ask them at WP:TEAHOUSE which you would also get similar replies as mine. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:29, 6 August 2023 (UTC)