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"Tai Chi Chuan" to "Taijiquan" Edits

Firstly, I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for editing "Tai Chi Chuan" to "Taiji Quan" before discussing. I only discovered the rigorous discussion process after having saved the edits. I mean(t) no disrespect of any kind and actually wanted & looked for such a function, but stupidly failed to find it. I hope I have not stepped on anyone's toes, and if I have, that you will please forgive my ignorance regarding the netiquette of Wikipedia, and we can work together peacefully and effectively to spread accurate information.

I undid your move of the page. While it is fine to make bold edits to Wikipedia, there are conflicting sources for the name in English and the article title has been where it's at for many years amicably. If you can present evidence that a majority of reliable sources in English use Taiji Quan over Tai chi chuan, please do so on the talk page. Thanks, Steven Walling 04:08, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you and I am using that avenue now. Although I originally was leaning towards the name being "Taiji Quan", I learnt that the most common usage is in fact "Taijiquan" and thus am working towards consensus on recognition of this this fact. InferKNOX (talk) 09:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The reason to edit to Taijiquan

The martial art is practically unanimously called such among Taijiquan masters, associations, organisations and anyone whose origins are in line with that of Taiji itself. There is a serious splintering in international Taiji schools, etc, at the moment, making it difficult for new students to effectively gather information and act upon their desire to join this spectacular martial art and the various naming conventions only add to this splintering, as the Taiji leaders call it something distinct (Taijiquan) from the majority of unlearned individuals. For these individuals, this raises questions of whether there are practical distinctions between the two and what they may be, adding confusion to something that individuals like Wu Bin, the International Wushu Federation, as well as the various Taiji associations and organisations are working to simplify and harmonise. Thus using "Tai Chi Chuan" as the term for something called "Taijiquan" by the heads of the martial art, is in a sense spreading misinformation.

I'm still a beginner in the Traditional Yang Style Taijiquan, but hope to do my part, whatever that may be, and work together with the various schools, associations and organisations to consolidate this splintering and to do my best to help promote uniformity, cohesion and a standardised hierarchy that all can appreciate and adhere to.

For references, you can review material from the various Chinese masters and I'm sure you'll see the relative unanimity I speak of.

Thank you for your efforts. The argument that needs to be made here is that the article should be labled the "correct" name of the art rather than the possibly incorrect and definitely declining "most common name in English". If anyone on Wikipedia argues that you must follow a convention, please note there are many guidelines that state that any guideline or perceived "rule" can and should be bent or broken if it stands in the way of improving an article.Herbxue (talk) 22:26, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst I can see that you are very passionate about this issue InferKNOX, and by your own admission you are a beginner at Tai Chi Chuan, you have made various statements in favour of changing the name of the article and yet you have not presented any evidence which proves that your assertions are correct. It may be the case that your teacher calls it "Taijiquan", and that articles you read refer to it this way that is understandable. However I have been teaching Tai Chi for almost thirty years and I can assure you that most people call it by the English spelling and not the Chinese one. Changing the title of an article to a special spelling only recognised by a minority of English speakers does not improve the article or make it more accessible in any way imaginable. My teacher called the art "T'ai Chi Ch'uan", which is the spelling I would personally prefer, and I have just published a book called "The Chinese Art of T'ai Chi Ch'uan", however if I am making a poster or advertising my class I recognise that most people call it "Tai Chi" and this is the spelling I use because it is the recognisable one. Using the English language spelling is not spreading misinformation, languages are not designed by using dictionaries or even by recognised conventions set out in rule books by authorized bodies but are simply composed by the conventions and usages of the languages' speakers, in fact the same is true of the "Tai Chi" schools. Schools which emphasize links with China may favour the Chinese spelling but my school was established in Britain in 1934 and we use the English spelling, Tai Chi is international now and the English Wikipedia spelling of the name "Tai Chi" reflects this.--Chuangzu (talk) 23:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They're both English spellings, it's just that one is using the outdated Wade-Giles translation and the other is using the standardised Pinyin translation. My argument is not based on bias, and in fact my Sifu and his school use Tai Chi Chuan; nor is it based on ignorance, despite my being a beginner of the practice. I argue for it, because of the splintering I talk of above, and the fact that standardisation is one of the key factors towards achieving cohesion. Even now it is very difficult to ascertain legitimacy of items pertaining to Taiji, what more in a generation or two, when the unchecked offshoots will be so vast that the central, 'correct' martial art is lost in the shuffle? I fear, however, that based on what you said, your argument is the product of personal preference due to teaching and habit. As someone so long in it, surely you see what I'm saying? I honestly don't see any harm it could do to anyone, having the standard name Taijiquan on Wikipedia, as anyone searching for "Tai Chi" or "Tai Chi Chuan" would simply be redirected there, and on the page it would be clearly stated that those spellings they were redirected from are the formerly used Wade-Giles translation, thus all those learning about the martial art would understand the current standing and from where it came. The other point is that using the Wade-Giles translation, people will always revert to the incorrect "Tai Chi" and "Tai Chi Chuan", when it should be "T'ai Chi" and "T'ai Chi Ch'uan" respectively. Is it then better that there be such rigid grasp to something for popularity's sake, that deterioration is preferable to correctness, which itself is not entirely unpopular? --InferKNOX (talk) 11:03, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your title change tai chi chuan

I believe you changed the article title of "Tai Chi Chuan" to "T'ai Chi Ch'uan" wrongly. I don't know how you did it but the long and important article history of the "Tai Chi Chuan" version (also from the talk page) has disappeared. Please reverse the title change and correct this, or ask an knowledgeable editor to carry out such an article change. --VanBurenen (talk) 11:09, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Article is here: T'ai Chi Ch'uan and the discussion page is here: Talk:T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Does that ease your concern, or have I understood you wrongly? InferKNOX (talk) 11:17, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please click the "View history" button: the history of 'Tai Chi Chuan' is gone. --VanBurenen (talk) 11:24, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I see your concern now. You're interested in the histories of the "Tai Chi Chuan" page and the corresponding discussion page. In that case, you need to go to the Tai chi chuan page, which will redirect you to "T'ai Chi Ch'uan". Just under the title you will then find a link saying "(Redirected from ...)". Click on the link to go to the former Tai chi chuan page, then you can view the histories of both that page and corresponding discussion page. I hope that clears that up for you. InferKNOX (talk) 11:48, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That, of course, is unacceptable. You can not require from a visitor to go through the exercise of checking all possible variations of "redirected from" to accidentally find the one with the most complete history. I strongly believe that this has to be solved another way. The history of the text that is now to be found under the title "T'ai Chi Ch'uan" is not where one should expect it, namely under the button on top of that page. --VanBurenen (talk) 11:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

PS: please don't change the title of this discussion. It is the reference I use for communicating about this problem. Thank you. (At least till some later date, when the history issue has been solved.) --VanBurenen (talk) 12:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a way to move a page and keep the page's history intact at the new title. I will look into correcting that today. It might involve deleting the new page and then moving again the correct way. I have to ask, though, after a cursory look at the discussion at the old page, is there consensus for the move? It didn't appear that there was... I won't make any changes until I'm sure that there is consensus for changing the title of the page. Wikipelli ^Talk 12:44, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've found it and am making the correction. InferKNOX (talk) 12:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, InferKNOX, for reverting this. And I see on the talk page that you found the formal procedure. User:Wikipelli is willing to do the conversion, as you see above, however, depending on consensus. --VanBurenen (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipelli, could you please go ahead and move it to "T'ai chi ch'uan", as I'm being presented with an error. About the consensus (and details of the error), please see Talk:Tai chi chuan#Page Move to "T'ai chi ch'uan". Thank you. InferKNOX (talk) 12:19, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipelli ^Talk, is there any progress with the move? InferKNOX (talk) 12:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tai chi chuan has been moved to T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Sorry for the delay! :) Wikipelli ^Talk 09:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Wikipelli, however we need it with only the "T'ai" in uppercase and "chi ch'uan" in lowercase, ie "T'ai chi ch'uan". It's minor, I know, but actually relevant. Thanks again. InferKNOX (talk) 11:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Wikipelli ^Talk 14:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent, thank you. I'm travelling tomorrow, but will begin the link correction upon settling. InferKNOX (talk) 21:06, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tai Chi listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Tai Chi. Since you had some involvement with the Tai Chi redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Other related redirects are nominated at the same link. ~ Kimelea (talk) 03:12, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly unfree File:Wu Jianquan.jpg

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Wu Jianquan.jpg

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Non-free rationale for File:Yang Luchan.jpg

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Disambiguation link notification for August 26

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited T'ai chi ch'uan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Zhang Yan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thanks for updating all the Tai Chi related biographies with proper infoboxes, among many other fixes. Steven Walling • talk 00:00, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much! It's nice to know the hard work I'm trying to put into improving taijiquan & the sub-pages is noticed, and even nicer to know it's appreciated. ^_^ ~ InferKNOX (talk) 21:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 4

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

T'ai chi ch'uan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added links pointing to Wushu and Wuji

Chin Na (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Jiu Jitsu

Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added a link pointing to Yang Jun

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Infoboxes & Flags

Hi. I've recently removed some of the flags from the info boxes you added. Guidelines suggest they should be avoided. There is also inaccurate to use the modern day flag of the People's Republic of China for people born in the 18th century. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:29, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't realised the inappropriate usage. I made the assumption of using it in such manner from seeing it used in the infobox on the taijiquan page. Thanks for pointing my mistake out to me before I got any further. ~ InferKNOX (talk) 22:39, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. And thanks for pointing out the one on taijiquan. I've removed it. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:49, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for November 26

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Yang-style t'ai chi ch'uan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added links pointing to Ed Young and Yang Jun

Chen-style t'ai chi ch'uan (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)