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== Hannah Lewi ==
== due to... reasons ==

Hello to all. I'm new to Wikipedia editing, and starting with assisting via copyediting. Is anyone willing to take a look at the [[Hannah Lewi]] page and let me know if there's anything I missed or should be watching out for when it comes to copy editing? Thanks for any assistance and excited to get more practice in. [[User:WW0CJ|WW0CJ]] ([[User talk:WW0CJ|talk]]) 03:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
:One thing I just realized - would you guys keep the here with the mention of other architects? Not sure how applicable it is here...
:> Alongside Paul Walker, [[Julie Willis]] and [[Philip Goad]], Lewi is a co-director of the [[Australian Centre for Architectural History, Urban and Cultural Heritage]] (ACAHUCH). She is renowned for her generosity towards other scholars and mentoring of new researchers. [[User:WW0CJ|WW0CJ]] ([[User talk:WW0CJ|talk]]) 04:59, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
::Hi {{ping|WW0CJ}}, welcome to the Guild. I can't comment on that particular article but you can find some links to copy-editing tips on our [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/How to|"How-to"]] page. I've also added a "welcome" to your talk page, it has links to pages about Wikipedia policies, guidelines and editing culture. I hope you find it useful. Cheers, '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 09:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

:With regard to the quoted sentences, the first one is matter-or-fact and has a citation supporting it, but the second verges on [[MOS:PEACOCK]] and is unsupported, as well as having a "citation needed" template attached. Otherwise, the article seems in good shape. However, more could be done. The capitalization of "Chair" and "Vice-Chair" is questionable, per [[MOS:JOBTITLES]]. Among "Selected publications", journal article titles should be set off with double, not single, quotation marks. There are several citations that supply only bare URLs. Fixing those isn't usually considered copy editing per se, but it is generally helpful to have more information given, to help prevent [[WP:LINKROT]]. More terms could be linked to other Wikipedia articles, such as [[placemaking]] and [[architecture of Western Australia]]. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 09:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

== Support ==

Hi,

I really want to let you all know that I am really interested in copy editing on Wii. I really want to do this but I am really silly and I just look at an article and don't know where to begin.

I have very bad self confidence issues and I think it's a double edged sword, because I want to use this as a way to get it better, but it's so bad that it's stopping me feeling good enough to contribute.

I would love a step by step guide to check for things on each page so I know what I'm looking for, where to start. A flowchart would be amazing.

I have read the guides that are linked on the copyedit page and the beginners guides and everything but I feel silly as I still feel overwhelmed [[User:MrBauer24|MrBauer24]] ([[User talk:MrBauer24|talk]]) 23:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

:{{reply|MrBauer24}} One of the things that I do when starting a new article is look at spacing issues. Look for separating hatnotes, image specifications, and punctuation from following text. A lot of what we do here involves just making sure that the spacing is appropriate. While you're doing this, you are apt to spot gross errors in spelling or diction, without having to get too immersed in the article's subject matter. Another thing is to look over the references section and flesh out with templates citations that contain only URLs or are otherwise insufficiently informative, or correct citations that have been flagged for errors. Reading through the cited material while you're doing this, especially when it's online, will give you a handle on what the article is supposed to be saying, as well as making sure that the material exists for readers to consult. Apart from all that, pick shorter articles for copy editing, and those on subject matter you're familiar with. As far as Wikipedia's guidelines, there is indeed a lot to understand, and you shouldn't be surprised that you feel overwhelmed. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 01:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
::Hi {{ping|MrBauer24}}, welcome to the GOCE. I understand copy-editing can be overwhelming. I agree with Dhtwiki about taking short articles to begin with. below are a few tips to make copy-editing a little less stressful:
::*Edit one section or sub-section at a time, this makes even huge articles less daunting.
::*Work paragraph by paragraph, just fix the language as you go.
::*Break up long paragraphs into shorter ones of seven or fewer lines. Break them after a citation if you can.
::*Read each sentence (speaking it aloud might help) and think about what it is telling you. If you can, simplify the language by removing or replacing unnecessary words and phrases like "due to the fact that", "moreover", etc.
::*Our [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/How to/Step by step guide|step-by-step copy-editing guide]] should be enough to give you some ideas.
::Good luck and cheers, '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 20:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
:::{{U|MrBauer24}}: This may seem a bit mean, but given the many punctuation errors in your message above, it may be best for you to work on some other aspect of Wikipedia aside from copy-editing. That said, some of the articles tagged for copy-editing are indeed short and of very low quality, and I expect that you could improve them. One tip I use a lot is to read a sentence aloud to see if it makes sense when I speak it; if not, I try to fix it accordingly. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 02:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

== Need crosscheck on request article ==

Just finished a quick CE on [[Matooskie]]. Could anyone look over my edits and see if I should consider the CE finished? [[User:Zorblin|Zorblin]] ([[User talk:Zorblin|talk]]) 03:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
:Looks pretty good to me, and the article survived the [[WP:GAR|GAR]]. You should add {{tl|GOCE}} to the talk page (under the WikiProject banners), so other editors will know it's been copyedited. Thanks and all the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 14:14, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
::It's also courteous to add {{tl|GOCEtb}} to the requester's talk page, in case they're not watching [[WP:GOCE/REQ]]. [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 14:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Okay, Thanks! [[User:Zorblin|Zorblin]] ([[User talk:Zorblin|talk]]) 01:36, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah, thank you for the check-in, coming back from a irl break. [[User:Zorblin|Zorblin]] ([[User talk:Zorblin|talk]]) 01:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

== Request for crosscheck on [[Joyce Mojonnier]] ==

I signed up to CE an article from the backlog, [[Joyce Mojonnier]], and would appreciate feedback. After reviewing some of the comments above, I think I may have done more than is required. I'm a novice, so I did do a bit more than just CE, like verifying links/citations. I spent the time trying to learn and practice using some of the wiki-concepts. So here are some specific questions I have (about the process and the edits I made):

*I added a thread to the [[Talk:Joyce Mojonnier#Issues for improvement| Talk page]], which I think I know isn't required; but I wanted to try out that process. There, I outlined my changes, and added a {done} tag to keep track. Question: Any feedback on those issues? (Besides the fact they are probably beyond what is meant by a basic CE.)
:In fact, if it's easier to give feedback by leaving it on the [[Talk:Joyce Mojonnier|article's talk page]], I can check there.
*As instructed, I added the {GOCEinuse} tag before starting work; and I removed the tag for {Copy edit|for=tone} that had already been left. So some of my edits were for 'tone', which seemed to be a bit of peacocking (is that the word?) or advertising (like for the Foundation and Museum). If this is part of CE, do I just leave an appropriate comment (and take out or rephrase for NPOV)?
*I removed some material that seemed off-topic (better suited for another article); so I added a thread (actually two) on the [[Talk:Joyce Mojonnier| Talk page]] to keep track. Q: That is required, right?
*Some of the material removed was simply not relevant (as outlined on my talkpage thread). In that case, it's just ok to leave a comment with the CE? (As I did, I think.)
*One of the comments above mentions: {{tq|as a note, while copy editors may have to check sources (e.g., to discern meaning), full source reviews are usually out of our purview.}} But I went ahead, anyway, and checked the citations. Some had old xlinks, so I found/replaced with new. I also added some citations to material that seemed unsupported. This may be outside CE, but isn't that suggested as an alt to just tagging with {citation needed}?
*Even after editing, I think some of the material could still use better citations: so I tagged two specific spots (and added a thread to the talk page). I don't think this is a highly trafficked or controversial article; so is adding a few inline tags better than the big warning citation tag?
*Last question (I promise!): CE does include looking at the wikitext (like in hatnotes), yes? (I think that may be answered above.)

Anyway, advice and feedback would be appreciated; and '''let me know what to do next''' on this task. I'll try to look for another simple, short article in the backlog (or recent requests for GOCE attn) for my next one; but some of them seem like they need more project level revision, than just CE or TLC. (I think the advice given above was: If it's too complicated, skip it.) Thanks for your time, in advance. (And apologies for my verbosity.) — [[User:Yogabear2020|Yogabear2020]] ([[User talk:Yogabear2020|talk]]) 21:42, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

:You've done a thorough job and turned a wall of text into something that's more manageable to read. Thank you for your help.
:The detailed threads such as you added to the talk page are more likely to be seen on articles where copy edits have been requested and there are likely to be interested editors to respond. They are less likely for articles that have been tagged for copy editing, where active subject-matter editors are less likely to be paying attention. Explaining yourself to others (and to yourself, which is always helpful) can be done with edit summaries alone, where you have a 500 (or is it 1,000?) character limit, and where people can more directly examine the changes via diffs. The reasons you gave for removing extraneous material seem sound to me.
:Full source reviews are not required for copy editing, but any copy editing is made better by consulting sources and in doing so finding citations that could stand improvement, as well as making other improvements, such as more specific hatnotes, wiki-links, and anything else that make the article more intelligible.
:As far as further improvements: I would provide some ending punctuation to the items in your bulleted list, and improve the complicated next-to-last sentence, possibly to {{tq|This museum collects and displays—both online and at the physical space—video-recorded oral histories, as well as other historical memorabilia, collected from former female members of the California legislature.}}
:[[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 05:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the reply. Your explanations of "source review" and using "detailed threads" was helpful. Should I just remove that whole [[Joyce Mojonnier#Issues for improvement|detailed thread I first added]] to the talk page? But leave the others (just in case) explaining why material was removed?
::For the article, I changed the next-to-last sentence as you suggested. But before adding punctuation to the list, I wonder about [[MOS:LISTFORMAT]]. Here it suggests using sentence case for list items that are "complete sentences", but not to use sentence case for "fragments" (such as the items on the JM article-list). The MOS then adds:
::{{quote|A list item should not end with a full stop unless it consists of a complete sentence or is the end of a list that forms one.}}
::Can you clarify for me? Then I'll fix the list, and take the next steps to finish the CE review. Thanks again! — <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Yogabear2020|Yogabear2020]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Yogabear2020|Talk]])</small></span> 13:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Leave the talk page threads. They're fine. That article's talk page doesn't have but one other thread, and no archives.
:::Most lists consist of simple names, such as of people or places. Your list is more complicated, and I thought it looked barren without more punctuation, such as ending most items with semi-colons and the last with a period, as though it is a complete sentence, as follows.
::::{{tq|These include:
::::* the ''[[Hazardous Medical Waste Management Act]]'', which served as a national model for medical waste clean-up;{{citation needed|date=March 2024 |reason=as "a national model" needs evidence }}
::::* legislation to provide closed circuit television testimony for use with child witnesses involved in cases involving sexual offenses,<ref>{{cite book | author=California. Legislature. Assembly | title=Assembly Bill | publisher=California Legislature | year=1985 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=GCMQBo6a3EkC | access-date=2024-03-10}}</ref> and similar legislation for use with violent offenders to eliminate the need to transport them;
::::* legislation to require children's waiting rooms at courthouses, in the interest of protecting young children from unfriendly or threatening circumstances;<ref>{{cite web |author=Judicial Council of California |year=1987 |title=1987 Annual Report |url=https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/106831NCJRS.pdf |access-date=2024-03-10 |page=62 |ref={{sfnref | Anon.}}}}</ref>
::::* and legislation requiring reflector license plates.}}
:::[[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 23:07, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
::::Ok, that all makes sense! I followed your model, and made the changes (incl. "and" in last bullet). Per the Backlog Drive instructions, I removed {{tl|GOCEinuse}} from article, and added {{tl|GOCE}} to [[Talk:Joyce Mojonnier| talk page]]. Is that right? Hope so. I'll later add completed on drive page.
::::Thanks very much for your help and encouragement. (And your patience.) — <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Yogabear2020|Yogabear2020]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Yogabear2020|Talk]])</small></span> 00:54, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
:::::It's usual to fill the "user" and "date" fields when placing the [[Template:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors|GOCE]] template on the article talk page, which I've done for you, as well as including your hidden comment, as that might be mystifying, especially if it becomes separated from the template. Also, it's usual to have the GOCE template within the [[Template:WikiProject banner shell|WikiProject banner shell]] template, if one is present, which is where I've moved yours. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 05:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
::::::Okay, good to know. I had looked at how the editor on the previous thread had placed the tag on the [[Talk:Matooskie|Matooskie talk page]]; but I guess I should have looked at the [[Template:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors|GOCE]] page for instructions. Still learning! Thanks, again. — <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Yogabear2020|Yogabear2020]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Yogabear2020|Talk]])</small></span> 12:39, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}


I have recently replaced, using [[WP:AWB|AWB]], hundreds of tautological instances of "due to health reasons" with "for heath reasons", and similarly for uses of "due to medical reasons" and "due to legal reasons". Naturally, I have excluded cases in quotations or the titles of sources.
== Big blue button? ==


Please consider this in your work.
I am requesting the {{tl|Big Blue Button}} template be added somewhere on the page. The template looks like a big blue button with text saying, "Click this button. Copy edit an article." I feel like this button would be useful for those who want to help with copyediting. - [[User:The Master of Hedgehogs|Master of Hedgehogs]] <sup>([[User talk: The Master of Hedgehogs|converse]])</sup> <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Master of Hedgehogs|hate that hedgehog!]])</sup> 13:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Good idea, and thanks for the suggestion! It's a painless way to get started with copyediting. All the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 13:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
::Looks good on the project page, and I love the randomness {{-)}} Thanks again, {{u|The Master of Hedgehogs}}! All the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 13:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


Are there other, similar, phrases that need attention? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 09:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
== Grammar question/Commas with Nonessential Elements ==
:Thanks, [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy]]. I can't think of anything else offhand, but will let you know if I do. All the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 12:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
:Hi Andy, thank you for your work. A few misused phrases and words I often find are:
:*"Due to the fact (that)" --> "Because / Because of / Due to";
:*unnecessary uses of "that"... "Dave Brown told reporters ''that'' the fire was deliberately lit";
:*"Impact" and "impacted (by)" where the meaning is "effect" or "affected (by)"; "The train strike has ''impacted'' thousands of travellers today".
:There's probably loads more but those may keep you busy for a while. :) Cheers, '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 21:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the suggestions, Unfortunately, most of them cannot be handled as simple find/ replace operations in AWB. I will add those that can to my to-do list. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 09:10, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


== [[Jonny Bairstow]] ==
Hello,


Hi. Although my availability is limited, I'm keen to get into GOCE again. I enjoyed it last year when I had plenty of spare time. I've selected three articles from the list and two look as if they'll be easy enough to improve. [[Jonny Bairstow]], however, could be a nightmare. It is BLP and seriously unsourced. I suspect it contains original research.
We have a grammar question about using commas in a sentence. We are currently editing the [[Israel]] page and have questions about comma use in regards to the below proposed sentence:


I need advice about how much I can do under the GOCE banner. I think large amounts of unsourced content should be removed, assuming I won't be able to find sources, but that would probably halve the size of the article. What do you think? Thanks. [[User:PearlyGigs|PearlyGigs]] ([[User talk:PearlyGigs|talk]]) 00:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
''"Israel [[Israeli Declaration of Independence|declared its establishment]] on 14 May 1948, the day the British [[End of the British Mandate for Palestine|terminated the Mandate]], and the [[1948 Arab–Israeli War|First Arab–Israeli War]] erupted."''


:Thank you for your help. I see that there are many "citation needed" templates at the Bairstow article, but, with 73 citations, I wouldn't call it "unsourced". It is a BLP, which requires strict adherence to being properly sourced, but I'm looking at things such as:
I think the two commas in the above sentence are structurally offsetting a “nonessential clause” [https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/usage-of-essential-and-nonessential-clauses][https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/commas/commas_with_nonessential_elements.html][https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/how-to-use-two-commas-in-a-sentence]. I think that this means a nonessential clause is something that can be removed without changing the core meaning of a sentence. Since two commas are placed around the British Mandate portion, and since that portion is grammatically removable, I think that portion is grammatically a nonessential clause. Removing the non-restrictive portion, the sentence becomes


::{{tq|Bairstow played in all six England matches at the 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup, though he finished with just 47 runs and a top score of 16.[citation needed][58]}} (while his involvement in the tournament is supported, his personal score isn't).
''“Israel [[Israeli Declaration of Independence|declared its establishment]] on 14 May 1948 and the [[1948 Arab–Israeli War|First Arab–Israeli]] War erupted.”''
::{{tq|From 2016 to 2018, he played for Peshawar Zalmi in the Pakistan Super League.[citation needed]}} (his playing for the league is mentioned online, but I couldn't find the particular date range; however, this is likely to be something for which sources could be found).


:You would be within your right to remove unsourced text, but I myself would rather leave in such text, as long as concerned simple scoring and didn't involve extraordinary claims, such as of scandalous behavior or being the greatest player ever. [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 04:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
I think this is problematic because I think it gives the impression that Israel declared establishment, and the war immediately broke out. The war actually broke out the next day from an attack.
::Hi, {{u|Dhtwiki}}. Thanks for your advice. I'll work my way through it and see what I can do. The main problem is the 2013 to 2014 section which has no citations at all. I've been looking at a couple of sites, mainly ESPNcricinfo, which might provide some of the missing references. [[User:PearlyGigs|PearlyGigs]] ([[User talk:PearlyGigs|talk]]) 04:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Hi, {{u|Dhtwiki}}. Nearly two weeks later, I've finally finished this. Fortunately, it's relatively easy to find sources for someone who is currently a top sportsperson. I decided to completely rewrite it, and I've revamped the structure so as to keep all relevant material together. I think it meets B-class now but it would be good to have a thorough review done, so I've added it to [[WP:GAN]]. This is the second cricket article I've tried to improve and they were both a collection of unrelated incidents following on from each other without any structure or cohesion. I think I'll stick to football! Thanks again for your advice. [[User:PearlyGigs|PearlyGigs]] ([[User talk:PearlyGigs|talk]]) 05:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)


== Good article reassessment for [[Armenian Revolutionary Federation]] ==
So I recommended changing to list format to avoid using nonessential elements:
[[Armenian Revolutionary Federation]] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Armenian Revolutionary Federation/1|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 19:02, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


== Copy edit drive question ==
: “On 14 May 1948, the British [[End of the British Mandate for Palestine|terminated the Mandate]], and Israel [[Israeli Declaration of Independence|declared its establishment]].”


Hi all, I'm not an official part of the Guild but I've attempted to participate in this month's copy editing drive. I tried to take on a meaty article in the requests section, [[Critical Role Productions]]. I've copy edited most of it but it's extremely heavy on unnecessarily long quotes from sources; is this my responsibility to fix, or should I leave quotes alone? To make this more natural would make the overall task significantly harder and basically be rewriting most of the article. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. [[User:StewdioMACK|StewdioMACK]] ([[User talk:StewdioMACK|talk]]) 11:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
@[[User:Makeandtoss|Makeandtoss]] thinks that I may be overthinking the grammar and interpretation, so this is why I am seeking clarification about the grammar and whether or not the British terminating the Mandate is being used as a nonessential element in the sentence: ''"Israel [[Israeli Declaration of Independence|declared its establishment]] on 14 May 1948, the day the British [[End of the British Mandate for Palestine|terminated the Mandate]], and the [[1948 Arab–Israeli War|First Arab–Israeli War]] erupted."''
:Welcome, and thanks for your help. You don't have to be a GOCE member to participate in the drives and blitzes, but copyediting GA and FA candidates usually calls for a bit of experience. The request should be tagged as {{tl|Working}} on the requests page to notify the requester and other potential copyeditors. I don't know what you mean by fixing quotes, since they ordinarily shouldn't be copyedited except for adding {{tl|sic}} or similar minor fixes. FWIW, I look at an article first before deciding on a copyedit; it helps the rest of us to finish what's started. Have fun and all the best, [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 14:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|StewdioMACK}} I'm going to mention a bit here if you do want to go further than a copyedit and rewrite some of the material. Heavy use of "unnecessarily long quotes" is not compatible with encyclopedic tone and can even run afoul of fair use. (In general, anything "unnecessary" should probably be trimmed.) You can paraphrase or partially paraphrase, or make a tighter summary of the material being quoted. In the last paragraph of {{section link|Critical Role Productions#Industry expansion (2022–present)}}, for example, there are three quotations which are all in agreement and building to the same point; they become repetitive, and the paragraph could probably be summarized in two sentences without any quotations. Since the article is intended for GAN, I'd at least mention the quotation issue to the requester. –&nbsp;[[User:Reidgreg|Reidgreg]] ([[User talk:Reidgreg|talk]]) 14:31, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the comments, [[User:Reidgreg|Reidgreg]]. I've gone ahead and rewritten a lot of sections to reduce quote-farming, and I've added a "promotional tone" template to the top of the article. Haven't published my edit yet but will when I'm done with the copy edit. [[User:StewdioMACK|StewdioMACK]] ([[User talk:StewdioMACK|talk]]) 14:45, 1 September 2024 (UTC)


==Help the Wikimedia Foundation better understand how on-wiki collaborations work==
If it is being used non essentially, are there any suggestions on how we can improve the sentence grammar or how to rewrite the sentence?
The [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaigns Campaigns team] at the Wikimedia Foundation is exploring how to expand it's work on campaigns to support other kinds of collaboration. We are interested in learning from diverse editors that have experience joining and working on WikiProjects, Campaigns, and other kinds of on-wiki collaboration. We need your help:
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Whatever input you bring to the two spaces will help us make better decisions about next steps beyond the [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaigns/Foundation_Product_Team current tools we support]. [[User:Astinson (WMF)|Astinson (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Astinson (WMF)|talk]]) 19:00, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you! [[User:Wafflefrites|Wafflefrites]] ([[User talk:Wafflefrites|talk]]) 18:54, 16 March 2024 (UTC)


== Requested move at [[Talk:Gordon Campbell#Requested move 18 September 2024]] ==
:The easiest path to sensibility would be to remove the second comma: {{tq|Israel declared its establishment on 14 May 1948, the day the British terminated the Mandate and the First Arab–Israeli War erupted.}} Otherwise, the sentence seems muddied and perhaps run-on. Could the British "terminate" the (League of Nations?, UN?) mandate (usually mandate is granted by some other entity)? Did the war erupt on account of the end of the mandate or the establishment of Israel (I'm guessing the latter)? [[User:Dhtwiki|Dhtwiki]] ([[User talk:Dhtwiki|talk]]) 22:31, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] There is a requested move discussion at [[Talk:Gordon Campbell#Requested move 18 September 2024]] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:SafariScribe|Safari Scribe]]</span><sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/SafariScribe|'''''Edits!''''']] [[User talk:SafariScribe|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 12:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for the feedback! Another editor/editors jumped in a proposed to use “intervened” for the Arab side so I think we will use that. The war didn’t really erupt because of the Declaration of Independence, it was an extension of a previous war, but more of a second phase that became international [[User:Wafflefrites|Wafflefrites]] ([[User talk:Wafflefrites|talk]]) 16:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
:I have replied at the talk page. I don't see anything for the GOCE to do there. '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 16:40, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
:::If events unfolded as described in the messages above, I think the sentence is flawed. It implies that one thing caused another and that they happened on the same day. I would break it into two sentences, something like: "Israel [[Israeli Declaration of Independence|declared its establishment]] on 14 May 1948, the day the British [[End of the British Mandate for Palestine|terminated the Mandate]]. The [[1948 Arab–Israeli War|First Arab–Israeli War]] erupted the next day." – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 12:59, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 16:41, 25 September 2024

Shortcut


due to... reasons

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I have recently replaced, using AWB, hundreds of tautological instances of "due to health reasons" with "for heath reasons", and similarly for uses of "due to medical reasons" and "due to legal reasons". Naturally, I have excluded cases in quotations or the titles of sources.

Please consider this in your work.

Are there other, similar, phrases that need attention? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Andy. I can't think of anything else offhand, but will let you know if I do. All the best, Miniapolis 12:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Andy, thank you for your work. A few misused phrases and words I often find are:
  • "Due to the fact (that)" --> "Because / Because of / Due to";
  • unnecessary uses of "that"... "Dave Brown told reporters that the fire was deliberately lit";
  • "Impact" and "impacted (by)" where the meaning is "effect" or "affected (by)"; "The train strike has impacted thousands of travellers today".
There's probably loads more but those may keep you busy for a while. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:07, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the suggestions, Unfortunately, most of them cannot be handled as simple find/ replace operations in AWB. I will add those that can to my to-do list. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:10, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jonny Bairstow

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Hi. Although my availability is limited, I'm keen to get into GOCE again. I enjoyed it last year when I had plenty of spare time. I've selected three articles from the list and two look as if they'll be easy enough to improve. Jonny Bairstow, however, could be a nightmare. It is BLP and seriously unsourced. I suspect it contains original research.

I need advice about how much I can do under the GOCE banner. I think large amounts of unsourced content should be removed, assuming I won't be able to find sources, but that would probably halve the size of the article. What do you think? Thanks. PearlyGigs (talk) 00:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your help. I see that there are many "citation needed" templates at the Bairstow article, but, with 73 citations, I wouldn't call it "unsourced". It is a BLP, which requires strict adherence to being properly sourced, but I'm looking at things such as:
Bairstow played in all six England matches at the 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup, though he finished with just 47 runs and a top score of 16.[citation needed][58] (while his involvement in the tournament is supported, his personal score isn't).
From 2016 to 2018, he played for Peshawar Zalmi in the Pakistan Super League.[citation needed] (his playing for the league is mentioned online, but I couldn't find the particular date range; however, this is likely to be something for which sources could be found).
You would be within your right to remove unsourced text, but I myself would rather leave in such text, as long as concerned simple scoring and didn't involve extraordinary claims, such as of scandalous behavior or being the greatest player ever. Dhtwiki (talk) 04:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Dhtwiki. Thanks for your advice. I'll work my way through it and see what I can do. The main problem is the 2013 to 2014 section which has no citations at all. I've been looking at a couple of sites, mainly ESPNcricinfo, which might provide some of the missing references. PearlyGigs (talk) 04:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Dhtwiki. Nearly two weeks later, I've finally finished this. Fortunately, it's relatively easy to find sources for someone who is currently a top sportsperson. I decided to completely rewrite it, and I've revamped the structure so as to keep all relevant material together. I think it meets B-class now but it would be good to have a thorough review done, so I've added it to WP:GAN. This is the second cricket article I've tried to improve and they were both a collection of unrelated incidents following on from each other without any structure or cohesion. I think I'll stick to football! Thanks again for your advice. PearlyGigs (talk) 05:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Armenian Revolutionary Federation

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Armenian Revolutionary Federation has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:02, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copy edit drive question

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Hi all, I'm not an official part of the Guild but I've attempted to participate in this month's copy editing drive. I tried to take on a meaty article in the requests section, Critical Role Productions. I've copy edited most of it but it's extremely heavy on unnecessarily long quotes from sources; is this my responsibility to fix, or should I leave quotes alone? To make this more natural would make the overall task significantly harder and basically be rewriting most of the article. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. StewdioMACK (talk) 11:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome, and thanks for your help. You don't have to be a GOCE member to participate in the drives and blitzes, but copyediting GA and FA candidates usually calls for a bit of experience. The request should be tagged as {{Working}} on the requests page to notify the requester and other potential copyeditors. I don't know what you mean by fixing quotes, since they ordinarily shouldn't be copyedited except for adding {{sic}} or similar minor fixes. FWIW, I look at an article first before deciding on a copyedit; it helps the rest of us to finish what's started. Have fun and all the best, Miniapolis 14:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@StewdioMACK: I'm going to mention a bit here if you do want to go further than a copyedit and rewrite some of the material. Heavy use of "unnecessarily long quotes" is not compatible with encyclopedic tone and can even run afoul of fair use. (In general, anything "unnecessary" should probably be trimmed.) You can paraphrase or partially paraphrase, or make a tighter summary of the material being quoted. In the last paragraph of Critical Role Productions § Industry expansion (2022–present), for example, there are three quotations which are all in agreement and building to the same point; they become repetitive, and the paragraph could probably be summarized in two sentences without any quotations. Since the article is intended for GAN, I'd at least mention the quotation issue to the requester. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:31, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments, Reidgreg. I've gone ahead and rewritten a lot of sections to reduce quote-farming, and I've added a "promotional tone" template to the top of the article. Haven't published my edit yet but will when I'm done with the copy edit. StewdioMACK (talk) 14:45, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help the Wikimedia Foundation better understand how on-wiki collaborations work

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The Campaigns team at the Wikimedia Foundation is exploring how to expand it's work on campaigns to support other kinds of collaboration. We are interested in learning from diverse editors that have experience joining and working on WikiProjects, Campaigns, and other kinds of on-wiki collaboration. We need your help:

Whatever input you bring to the two spaces will help us make better decisions about next steps beyond the current tools we support. Astinson (WMF) (talk) 19:00, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Gordon Campbell#Requested move 18 September 2024

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There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Gordon Campbell#Requested move 18 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 12:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have replied at the talk page. I don't see anything for the GOCE to do there. Baffle☿gab 16:40, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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